Why do some people have a problem with Joss?

[Robb Stark]

I've just sort of noticed this in a few threads (mostly surrounding Charisma Carpenter), and I've never really known why. Now, I'm not to up on much of what goes on backstage, but I am curious as to what some of the reasons are.

I haven't heard much. To be honest all I really know about Joss is his television shows and movies.

 

[dexeded]

I like Joss a lot. I think some of the reasons that people dislike him are his arrogance, and the Charisma thing. For the latter, there were rumours that he was really angry that Charisma got pregnant (not sure if she told him or not beforehand...?), which resulted in the horrific S4 of Joss Not Caring. I don't really have the details, but I'm sure it's in the threads you mentioned. Also, some people say he's a one-trick pony (on account of them not liking his other shows. Not sure if that's still valid now that Avengers has come out).

 

[Living Dead Boy]

To be honest all I really know about Joss is his television shows and movies.

And that's how it should be. 😉 Joss may very well be this horrible person in real life, but all we can do is speculate anyway. We should be judging him based on the merit of his work, and for that, he is awesome. 🙂

 

[ashleigh]

To be honest, I don't really care about Joss. Obviously I like his shows, but I don't have much interest in him as a person. 😛 I guess that sounds a little callous, but it's the truth.

And as for the Charisma stuff... all of the stories we hear are likely to be one sided, so we're not likely to ever know the full story, and shouldn't be judging Joss as a person through it.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think in interviews he comes across as an arrogant prick with a God complex, and I can't stand people like that. And yes, after what happened between him and Charisma, I was done. I lost all respect I had for him when he ruined her character out of spite and then killed Cordelia off.

I don't know him personally, and I can still enjoy his work and respect that he's incredibly talented at writing wonderful characters and verses but I don't have to worship him like a lot of people seem to think we should, as fans.

 

[ladydorotea]

I lost all respect I had for him when he ruined her character out of spite and then killed Cordelia off.

Mmm, from what I seen/read heard mentioned about that ( and I assume you mean AtS S4 plot - right ?) the original plan for Cordelia's character - put together by the whole team of AtS writers - not just Whedon was worse and would have 'ruined' her anyhow. The finale of S3 was pretty much a setup for whatever happened next so it was all in the works way before Charisma got pregnant. I certainly think Joss is a complicated character himself, with a lots of issues and complexes - but CC episode was as much a conflict over her pregnancy between her and entire writers team - and the rest of the crew as it was with Joss. True, they could have handled it better. But Cordelia going evil thing was written on the wall basically - since every major character on both shows through the duration of both shows went through either being turned evil or dead - and this kind of stuff keeps happening in the comics as well. Might as well expect the sun to stop rising rather than expect Joss not to kill/devastate characters we love. Part of the appeal of the shows is that they are not 'safe', IMHO. Not safe at all.

 

[DeadFlagBlues]

I've seen interviews with Joss and he actually looked like a nice guy with a corny sense of humor to me. I especially liked him on the This American Life Live event. But I don't go around trying to find the dirt that happens back stage. I like almost all of the shows he's worked on and the movies he's made. Didn't think he was a one-trick pony, though he does seem to follow a lot of his own tropes.

 

[Jodast]

I am torn. From what I understand, he was a MASSIVE douchebag to Charisma when she got pregnant the second time (having lost the first to miscarriage) because she didn't want to tell anyone. Which I understand from her point of view since the first pregnancy ended so sadly. For that, I really have lost a whole ton of respect for the guy.

When I see him in interviews he comes across as the partially self-appointed king of the geeks, but he does it in such a way that I think he is hilarious and smart and I would happily accept him as my leader. Self-appointed or otherwise. Maybe this is because I think I have a similar type of personality and hate the idea of not liking my own personality.

As for his career, well let's be fair, THE GUY IS A FREAKING GENIUS!!!! He has written four shows that I absolutely love, a whole bunch of movies which have been great, except for the two which were crippled by studio interference (Buffy and Alien Resurrection) and he helps aspiring writers and performers by appearing in their stuff and lending his name to it to gain notoriety for them.

So I want to love him and I want to hate him and find myself doing both at the same time 🙂

 

[BuffyElevated]

Mmm, from what I seen/read heard mentioned about that ( and I assume you mean AtS S4 plot - right ?) the original plan for Cordelia's character - put together by the whole team of AtS writers - not just Whedon was worse and would have 'ruined' her anyhow. The finale of S3 was pretty much a setup for whatever happened next so it was all in the works way before Charisma got pregnant. I certainly think Joss is a complicated character himself, with a lots of issues and complexes - but CC episode was as much a conflict over her pregnancy between her and entire writers team - and the rest of the crew as it was with Joss. True, they could have handled it better. But Cordelia going evil thing was written on the wall basically - since every major character on both shows through the duration of both shows went through either being turned evil or dead - and this kind of stuff keeps happening in the comics as well. Might as well expect the sun to stop rising rather than expect Joss not to kill/devastate characters we love. Part of the appeal of the shows is that they are not 'safe', IMHO. Not safe at all.

I'm not saying Cordelia should have been safe. I realize no one is ever safe from being killed off in the Whedonverse. I'm saying that Joss handled the whole thing with Charisma badly. It has been stated on multiple occasions by Charisma that he got mad when she told him she was pregnant, because they already had a storyline planned out, and her pregnancy forced them to change it. He was a dick to her because she chose to have a baby. That is rediculous and horrible, IMO.

 

[ladydorotea]

He was a dick to her because she chose to have a baby. That is rediculous and horrible, IMO.

Yes, I agree that getting mad at an actress because she decided to have a baby was very bad indeed - especially for a self-professed feminist. It is sort of known that Joss was awful to many actors who argued with his view of their characters though - not just Charisma. He was very cross at Sarah too when she did not want to continue or even show up for an episode in AtS S5. So, as such you cannot blame him for vindictively destroying CC's particular character because of her pregnancy. Btw, they were both on Veronica Mars at some point later on - and it seems they have patched things up somehow.

 

[kittenpoker]

I am torn. From what I understand, he was a MASSIVE douchebag to Charisma when she got pregnant the second time (having lost the first to miscarriage) because she didn't want to tell anyone. Which I understand from her point of view since the first pregnancy ended so sadly. For that, I really have lost a whole ton of respect for the guy.

When I see him in interviews he comes across as the partially self-appointed king of the geeks, but he does it in such a way that I think he is hilarious and smart and I would happily accept him as my leader. Self-appointed or otherwise. Maybe this is because I think I have a similar type of personality and hate the idea of not liking my own personality.

As for his career, well let's be fair, THE GUY IS A FREAKING GENIUS!!!! He has written four shows that I absolutely love, a whole bunch of movies which have been great, except for the two which were crippled by studio interference (Buffy and Alien Resurrection) and he helps aspiring writers and performers by appearing in their stuff and lending his name to it to gain notoriety for them.

So I want to love him and I want to hate him and find myself doing both at the same time 🙂

I would have repped you but apparently I did that too much. So just want to echo this!

This is exactly how I feel.

 

[sk]

As I understand it Joss got mad at Charisma for not informing him about her pregnacy in time, so they had a good chance to adjust their storylines and stuff properly.
And not because she choosed to have a baby. There is a difference there imho.

Now, I've read that Charisma hesitade to tell because of her previous miscarriage and stuff. And I understand and respect her point of view of it.

But as ashleigh said earlier, I have really only heard one side of the story.
And I'm not prepared to bash anyone without knowing both sides. Usually both sides has good reasons for their actions so I try to be careful before I pick a side.

I also often hear people say that he seems arrogant, but I have never seen that myself.
Seen plenty of interviews with Joss. What I mostly see is him making fun of his status as a genius if anything. Never got the impression that he believe in it himself.

/SK

 

[The Scourge]

Aside from the Charisma thing, his sseemingly self-proclaimed god of the geeks thing is kind of arrogant.

Not to mention his work is kind of predictable to anyone who has watched Buffy and Angel. Drama, sarcastic quips, action, action with sarcastic quips, death of a beloved character, bittersweet ending.

I like most of his work, but I don't worship him like half the internet seems to do.

 

[SlayerFest]

Being famous must seriously suck when it comes to the gossip that comes along with it. Joss seems like a pretty decent guy, but I don't feel comfortable forming a solid opinion because I do not know him. Rumors are rumors, none of us will ever know what he is truly like until we come face to face with him...and even then we wouldn't really know much. I know some people who probably come off as absolute a-holes upon first meeting them but deep down, they're genuinely nice people.

As my great grandmother Doris always says, you can't truly know a person until you've had a sleepover with them, HMPH!
😉

(I say this because she's insanely judgmental and has never had a sleepover with anyone in her entire life, I'm trying to be humorous, okay?)

 

[The Thirst Evil]

Joss has created some amazing stuff. He is one of the best Directors/Writers I have ever come across, and that's all that really matters to me. Even if the rumours are true, there are much worse things a director can do. He has always appeared to be an open sort of guy, always respecting the wishes of the cast and crew, and from what I've seen in interviews and panels and such, the cast all seem to respect him so I do will too.

 

[AmelRIOT]

I love Joss's work and a lot of interviews he is funny and I heard from Eliza, Anthony and others that they love working with him, even Sarah said Buffy without Joss is insane, I wouldn't call him God but if I met him I would thank him for the amazing shows he has gave us, I am not gonna judge him as I don't know him so it isn't my place to say and like others said we don't know the other half.

I have heard about the Cordy story and was shock on what I heard so I need to know the 100% truth to judge, I heard him and Sarah had a huge argument over season 6 cause she felt dirty doing all them sex scenes and rough fighting as she got bruises and didn't like the story line but I don't know, I heard David and Joss had a argument but don't know any stories about it, even if Joss and the cast/crew had a argument they seem to gotten over it now as they have met up with him and say good things about each other but I don't know.

 

[Summerlilly]

Well, I do hope that he is a good guy. So, I'll just believe that. 😉 It does make me sad to think Charisma and Sarah both had issues with him at different points.

All I can say is I like most of the things he's done and I can't say that about too many people.

 

[Abbeycat]

I don't think I understood why some fans didn't like him or had issues with Joss until I joined this forum. I wasn't aware of the issue with Charisma Carpenter and Joss.

It doesn't completely change how I feel about the shows and movies he creates/created. I still like him but I guess now that I know what I know, it's a little weird.

 

[SinisterPledge]

I have to agree with most people here. I don't know him so I can't really judge him. If the rumors are true, that sucks but nobody's perfect so...you know...

He's still a genius anyway! I mean look at Fat Mike, he seems like a total douche but he's a musical genius imo!

 

[Vamp Jenny]

He's surely not perfect (nobody is) and I would've been surprised if, in 8 years of working on Buffy & Angel, he never had an argument with any actor.

I still think he's a genius, though. And I love his work and his jokes 🙂