Why do some people say Joss Whedon is homophobic?

[Gum Gnome33]

In my experience, not prioritizing the message is directly related to shows being bad. If you don't know what you want to say, then what you do say tends to lack any meaning. I think the key ingredient to any artistic works, is sincerity. Even if the show doesn't have an answer for its internal conflicts, well offer that up.

This is such a great point. 100%. And it's true, the show really does prioritize the message--or it feels as though it genuinely tries to--when it comes to Buffy resuming her relationship, (even friendship), with Angel. We get lots of discussion, lots of decision making, and lots of (appropriate) dissent from Giles and Xander. I suppose this really does go a long way.

Positive message? No, absolutely not. But a responsible message? Absolutely.......
It didn't try to say who was right or wrong. It just was the truth. If (once again using the SR example) BTVS had been honest with the AR, and showed both sides, then it would have been a totally different experience and arguably, better TV. BSG tackled the issue and in contrast they managed to create an episode of TV that was appropriately and insistently clear that rape was wrong, but also it invested in the story enough to make it an exploration of humanity and morality. That, to me, is tackling the hard issues and retaining artistic integrity.

Ok, good. I totally agree here. Initially I misunderstood you and @AlwaysBangel--I was thinking that you were advocating for a positive message, only. And as we've said, "positive" is entirely relative, anyway. Responsible, genuine, honest. Couldn't agree more. Honestly, I think that if Buffy were on HBO or Showtime, they'd have done a much better job at all of it. Truly some of the most troubling storylines are rushed--and moreso at the end of the series when they know they're about to go off air.

 

[Kean]

This is such a great point. 100%. And it's true, the show really does prioritize the message--or it feels as though it genuinely tries to--when it comes to Buffy resuming her relationship, (even friendship), with Angel. We get lots of discussion, lots of decision making, and lots of (appropriate) dissent from Giles and Xander. I suppose this really does go a long way.

Even if the show in question is a comedy, I think it is a better show if the humour is coming from a genuine place, rather than "place gags" where jokes are just churned out for the sake of jokes (or at the expense of people) and it loses all meaning (and humour). For me it is the difference between the timeless humour of Friends, versus the humour of The Big Bang Theory, which I enjoy but often find misogynistic and thoughtless.

Ok, good. I totally agree here. Initially I misunderstood you and @AlwaysBangel--I was thinking that you were advocating for a positive message, only. And as we've said, "positive" is entirely relative, anyway. Responsible, genuine, honest. Couldn't agree more. Honestly, I think that if Buffy were on HBO or Showtime, they'd have done a much better job at all of it. Truly some of the most troubling story lines are rushed--and moreso at the end of the series when they know they're about to go off air.

Oh God no, I have no interest in a happy happy, smile smile "And they all learned their lesson and lived happily after." That isn't what I meant at all.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

If he were homophobic, we wouldn't have the flawless character of Tara, the beauty that is Tillow, the great development within Willow, etc. Next thing we know, people will start saying Joss is against heterosexuality because a lot of his straight characters die too.

 

[Tome]

Because they don't know him personally. You can't judge someone you don't even know, lol. Tara died and she's a lesbian? OH NOEEES! It must be because Joss is homophobic. 😱 Seriously people, let's take a deep breath and realize it's a fantasy tv series: characters will die.

As for Willow, she said it herself: she's gay. She never said she was bisexual. I think we can believe what the character is saying about herself...

What makes Willow's magical rampage even more uncomfortable is the fact that she is saved by Xander telling her he loves her, which completes the trope/cliche and sends the message that all a psycho lesbian needs to be brought back to earth is the love of a man.

Or maybe in that case it was simply because Xander, having been her best friend her whole life, was able to reach her in a way nobody else could, not because he's a man but because he had a special bond with her?

I get your point, but you have to take things in context sometimes. Or else, like others have said, you could find issues with pretty much anything in a tv show.

 

[EffyStonem]

Or maybe in that case it was simply because Xander, having been her best friend her whole life, was able to reach her in a way nobody else could, not because he's a man but because he had a special bond with her?

I get your point, but you have to take things in context sometimes. Or else, like others have said, you could find issues with pretty much anything in a tv show.

The scenarios in my original post were not my personal opinions rather they were meant to illustrate the unfortunate implications that came about due to the writing.

Personally, I love the scene on the bluff between Willow and Xander and the reason he manages to talk her down is absolutely because he is, as you say, her best friend and can reach her in ways no one else can. That doesn't mean that the scene can't or won't be misconstrued or that it doesn't provide an unfortunate implication.

 

[heidiisablonde]

Joss is a big supporter of Equality Now and I have read that he really pushed to get willows sexuality into the show and threatened to quit if they would not let him portray them the same way the heterosexual couples were shown. Also, I read else where that he was wanting to create a gay male hero for quite some time before Billy the vampire slayer was created. If he's homophobic, he hides it well.

 

[Blaze]

This topic of Joss being homophobic tics me off so much, I mean people are really pulling some strings here. Like oh you know, maybe he's racist too since he only had one black character, oh and might as well say that he supports Hitler's mentality because he made the only jewish on the show turn evil and try to kill everyone. People need to stop getting offended over things that aren't even a problem, they are creating the problem, and honestly, it makes it really hard for the gay community to be considered "normal" if half the population puts them on a pedestal and the other half hates them. Joss is one of the only producer/writer that actually pulls off making homosexuality normal.

I applaud Joss for having the balls to kill of Tara when she was gay AND a fan favorite. He obviously didn't do it because he was homophobic, he did it because he treated her as an equal to all the other straight characters in Buffy that had to die. I applaud him for threatening nor to air "the Body" if the network wouldn't let him show Tara's and Willow's kiss. I applaud him for coming forward and saying "you know what, Willow had something great with Oz but she identifies as gay now, and that's the way it's going to be".

I feel like a lot of the people complaining about Joss being a homophobe aren't even part of the gay community, they are just activist who get offended over the slightest thing. From what I can tell around here, the gay community pretty much all like his work (if they have seen it). Being part of the gay community myself, Joss is probably my favorite director/writter because he has always shown amazing gay characters while treating them like a normal person.

Compare that to other shows, like the OC, 90210 ect, they bring in a gay character or "make" a main character gay for like 4 episode before they go back to being straight, now that is WAY worst then what Joss did. Those shows are prime example of including a gay character just to show the audience that eh, look, were gay friendly! Now look at BtVS, we had Willow, Tara, Kennedy, Larry and Andrew. Don't you think if Joss was homophobic he would have had only one gay character that would have been killed off or left the show. No he had to have 5 friggen character, I think that's a record for a "family" oriented show.

Aright, rant over, I know most people on this board agree that he's no homophobic but I just had to voice my opinion on the subject.