Question Why doesn't Spuffy work for you?

[Gideon]

This is pretty much self-explanatory. Why doesn't the relationship between Spike and Buffy work for you?

 

[Kean]

There are many different forms and levels to the Spuffy relationship. The friendship (as I see it) in Season 7 works, in my opinion. I think as friends Buffy and Spike flourished and had some truly touching moments in that season.

Where Spuffy doesn't work for me is when it is portrayed as a romantic relationship, or I suppose to be more accurate, a sexual relationship. There was never any romance in Spuffy for me. In season 6 I find the coupling destructive, demeaning of both characters and at times disgusting. I can't see the passion and heat in a relationship that is, in Buffy's own words, "killing her". Spuffy in season six, represents the loss of a hero, Buffy losing herself. I can't help but see all the pain she harbours. You may see her in the throws of ecstasy...I see agony. Buffy is one of my favourite characters and to see her hurt like that, hating herself that much...I simply can't find any joy in Spuffy as a couple. Seeing Red is especially hard because I really feel Buffy should have stalked him for what he tried to do. The more I look back on Spike's obsession with Buffy and how it progressed over season 5 and 6 I can't help but feel that he forced himself on her long before the attempted rape in Seeing Red. He hounded her until she gave in to him, for months. I just can't support that, I can't see the good in the pairing, I see no love.

 

[ubi4soft]

Because they have to much sex.

Part of the Spuffy relationship is to show how changed Buffy has become in her sexual comfort level. With Angel, she's a shy, uncertain virgin. With Parker, she's enthusiatic and probably not skilled, but emotionally vulnerable to his line of crap. He says she has stamina. Not much of a compliment.

With Riley, she's starting to come into her own. We never get the sense though that Riley is very good at satisfying her or at all adventurous. We never see Buffy give the Enormous Hall Monitor a blow job. It's nothing but straight up sex, Riley on top as far as I remember. She comments once that having sex with him was "relaxing." She leaves bed to go kill vampires, which seems to be more satisfying to her than he was. The only time he cuts it is when they're trapped in the haunted frat house. Lame. In fact, I had a head slap moment the other day. Riley does not know how to dance! The first time he tries to approach her on a romantic basis, he states that he doesn't dance. Given Spike's statements to Buffy re "dancing" I think we can conclude that Riley is a flop in the sack. (Are his trips to the vamp side of town really a metaphor for trying to sharpen up those manly sexual skills?)

With Spike, Buffy is finding out what she really wants, really likes, really needs, physically. She can explore the dark sexual side with a partner who she doesn't have to worry every moment about hurting. The real problem is that Buffy doesn't want to admit that she likes kinky sex and that she is "letting him do those things to me." But she does like those things - they have sex with fighting, sex in abandoned buildings, sex on the floor, sex after tearing up Spike's crypt, almost phone sex, (in her dream) sex with Buffy on top and with Spike handcuffed, sex with spatulas, sex in the kitchen, sex in the bed, naked sex, clothed sex, sex in public in the alley at her job, sex in public again outside in front of her house and apparently on the ground, sex when they're mad at each other and sex when they're happy - sex sex and more sex until Buffy can't sit down without making a face of pain. And, it's Spike and only Spike (God's gift) who gives Buffy this

 

[Gideon]

There are many different forms and levels to the Spuffy relationship. The friendship (as I see it) in Season 7 works, in my opinion. I think as friends Buffy and Spike flourished and had some truly touching moments in that season.

Where Spuffy doesn't work for me is when it is portrayed as a romantic relationship, or I suppose to be more accurate, a sexual relationship. There was never any romance in Spuffy for me. In season 6 I find the coupling destructive, demeaning of both characters and at times disgusting. I can't see the passion and heat in a relationship that is, in Buffy's own words, "killing her". Spuffy in season six, represents the loss of a hero, Buffy losing herself. I can't help but see all the pain she harbours. You may see her in the throws of ecstasy...I see agony. Buffy is one of my favourite characters and to see her hurt like that, hating herself that much...I simply can't find any joy in Spuffy as a couple. Seeing Red is especially hard because I really feel Buffy should have stalked him for what he tried to do. The more I look back on Spike's obsession with Buffy and how it progressed over season 5 and 6 I can't help but feel that he forced himself on her long before the attempted rape in Seeing Red. He hounded her until she gave in to him, for months. I just can't support that, I can't see the good in the pairing, I see no love.

That essentially sums it up for me. I think the friendship is great, and the unrequited love is tragically beautiful. And they did, in my opinion, have some very touching moments in S7.

But nothing clicks for me. There has to be more to it than just chemistry. Their relationship in S6 was obscene, and I'm not sure how anyone can ever defend Spike or argue that the nature of the relationship was anything healthy. It was physically and emotionally destructive; no positivity to be found.

 

[Kean]

Miss Universe agrees: True love is demeaning, though. I think.

How do you mean ?

 

[five x five]

There was never any romance in Spuffy for me. In season 6 I find the coupling destructive, demeaning of both characters and at times disgusting.

This is my main reason why I don't like it. To me, a relationship can't be a bout sex. Maybe I'm set in my ways, but I think it should come later on if the relationship is strong on its own. Obviously, because Spuffy began with sex in the very beginning, it was not as strong as a relationship could be. All that sex was Buffy's way of coping with so many problems. Spike would be there for her, she knew it and she took advantage of it. To me, Spuffy is essentially based on sex and just some sort of comfort for Buffy. In season six, Buffy had just been pulled from Heaven back to her hell on earth to continue her job as a slayer. She couldn't turn to her friends because they had felt like resurrecting her was the right thing to do and that possibly she was pulled into a hell dimension. So, she turned to Spike and that's how she comforted herself.

For these reasons, the "love" in the relationship if very one-sided. Spike is a very passionate being, we can see that especially in season two. However, he is really the only truly passionate one in this Spuffy relationship. In Chosen, Buffy told Spike she loved him before he died. However, his response was not something along the lines of how she finally said it or something epic or anything; he simply said thanks but he knew she didn't mean it. I suppose this means Buffy was making an effort of sorts, but her feelings weren't really there. For a relationship to properly function, the feelings must be there for both people. This was not the case in Spuffy.

 

[Schillaci]

I'm not saying anything, I'm just sayin'


I have a distinct feeling that the "problem" with Spuffy has nothing to do with the script and on screen relationship, but with the viwers who aren't able to seperate thier oe issues.

(damn this drunk memory that falls asleep and can't remember what I was typinbg)

 

[Blondie Bear]

I love Spuffy.

That said, while I understand what the writers were trying to do (with Spike being Buffy's shadow for the season), I feel that it took Spike two steps back in terms of character development. He was heading toward being a champion, and then he suddenly didn't have to be good anymore because he didn't have to try for Buffy--she wanted him for his darkness. It took his attempted rape to show him just how bad he'd really become to put him back on the right track to becoming a champion.

I honestly have trouble seeing the "disgusting" part because, quite honestly, I'd've jumped Spike LONG before Buffy got around to it. But that's me.

 

[Gideon]

I'd've jumped Spike LONG before Buffy got around to it. But that's me.

That's what it boils down to for me: the relationship, at least on Buffy's, was more sexual than romantic.

There is no indication that she is in love with him.

 

[white avenger]

The main thing that I don't like about the Spuffy relationship is that we never were given a "Spike-us" alter ego to blame all of the bad things on. Spike, good or evil, with or without a soul, had to accept responsibility for every action that he ever took from the moment that he was turned to the present. Angel with a soul is somehow a different man from the monster who raped, tortured, and murdered people for two centuries. Spike with a soul, on the other hand, is still the same old monster, still hated and distrusted by everyone but Buffy.

Maybe if Spike had had that "us" suffix that he could have dropped after receiving his soul, his relationship with Buffy would have been more acceptable to more fans. But, then, Spuffy IS acceptable to a lot of fans, isn't it? Angel can just keep his ol' "us." Spike doesn't need it. Buffy loves him just the way he is.

 

[Tranquillity]

Spuffy works fine for me too. I love how its NOT a simple relationship. I like how it changes and is not always great for those involved. It was a great learning/growing experince for both characters. And while i'm at it I may as well admit that I quite enjoyed the spuffy sex too. I saw plenty of romance, particualry in season seven.

 

[Gideon]

I suppose that's where I disagree. I've seen nothing, absolutely nothing, that indicates Buffy feels for Spike the way she feels for Angel. Say what you want about the nature of their relationship, but Buffy and Angel loved each other in unimaginable ways. While it was angsty and destructive, wasn't her relationship with Spike?

I think it's a double standard.

 

[DayVBayB]

Spike's love for Buffy was just mistaken from extreme obsession (you can have erotic dreams about your enemies).
He was just a convenience to Buffy during season 6, when she was way out of it with the whole "I'm feeling all dark and only and haven't had a good shag in a while" thing.

And after he got his soul he was simply a substitute for Angel, and it was just another mediocre reason for the Scoobies to trust him. But unlike Angel, and this has been mentioned, Spike's 'souled' self and 'un-souled' self are far too similar, he essentially is still his old self. The fact that Spike is an anomaly in the vampire world works against him in this argument imo.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I suppose that's where I disagree. I've seen nothing, absolutely nothing, that indicates Buffy feels for Spike the way she feels for Angel. Say what you want about the nature of their relationship, but Buffy and Angel loved each other in unimaginable ways. While it was angsty and destructive, wasn't her relationship with Spike?

I think it's a double standard.

Not every relationship in one's life is going to be exactly the same. Of course Buffy didn't feel for Spike the way she felt for Angel. She was a different person by then. Even in S7, when she does love him and isn't just using him, her love isn't the same as it was for Angel. Why would it be? And why is that a reason to say it's bad?

 

[ubi4soft]

Not every relationship in one's life is going to be exactly the same. Of course Buffy didn't feel for Spike the way she felt for Angel. She was a different person by then. Even in S7, when she does love him and isn't just using him, her love isn't the same as it was for Angel. Why would it be? And why is that a reason to say it's bad?

It's bad because it's not Angel, obviously, so if it's not Angel Buffy should go to the monastery or get into a cryogenic box until Angel shanshues or, at least, attempts to fix that damn curse which Spike forced the gypsies to perform.

 

[Washburne]

at least, attempts to fix that damn curse which Spike forced the gypsies to perform.

I know I have a terrible memory but what have I now missed? :blush:

 

[Blondie Bear]

I know I have a terrible memory but what have I now missed? :blush:

I don't remember which episode of Angel it is, but in a flashback,

Spoiler

Darla is begging the gypsies to undo the curse, promising to spare the headman's family's life if they'll undo it. Just as he looks like he might agree, Spike comes out of the man's wagon, blood all over his mouth, looking all drunk and sated.

 

[Washburne]

Ah yes. Now that scene comes to mind. Thanks Blondie. But

Spoiler

to say that Spike forced them to perform the curse seems a bit wrong right?

 

[Willow-Tree]

Spuffy is one of my favorite ships. That said, I definitely see the flaws in their relationship. For one, more than half of the time it just consists of meaningless sex. I think, AT FIRST, both of them just wanted someone to want them, and they were just together. And then they fell in love and beat the hell out of Bangel, the end! <3

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I choose to not join in on this conversation...*walks away slowly* because if I join in it can only get ugly...

But man, I really want to join in. So badly. *grits teeth lovingly*

🙂