"Why Spike Ruined 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer'"

Wishing Oceans

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Another article I ran into, what with it's eye-catching title and all:

| A once-good show becomes a bad one through the unexpected popularity of a posturing, vaguely thuggish minor character in a black leather jacket. In television, as in life, events tend to repeat themselves. First there was "Happy Days," where a charming show about growing up in the '50s was revamped to focus on the Fonz. And now there's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," which has been all but destroyed by the Fonzie of our time: Spike.

As "Buffy" comes to an end, its fans are debating where to place the blame for the mediocrity of this season. Was it the introduction of a team of Slayers in Training, all of them so annoying that fans were happy to see some of them get killed? Was it the overemphasis on irrelevant new characters like Kennedy and Principal Wood? Was it the decision to build the season around a villain (the First Evil) who can't touch anything or do anything at all except talk and talk and talk? Well, that's part of it.

But the problems with this season can be traced to a moment at the very end of the last good episode, "Conversations With Dead People." That's the moment when Buffy found out that Spike, blond vampire, attempted rapist, and current possessor of a soul, had somehow been killing people despite his souled status. From that point on, the show has no longer been about Buffy and her friends, or Buffy and her mission, or anything that used to be interesting on this show. It's been about Buffy and Spike. And that's about all.

Look at the record. The next two episodes after "Conversations With Dead People" involved Buffy trying to find out why Spike was killing again, following which she spent two more episodes focusing her attention on freeing Spike from a dungeon. Since then, we've discovered that a new character (Principal Wood) has a vendetta against Spike, seen an entire episode devoted to filling out Spike's back story, and sat through various other plot threads about Spike. Even when Spike isn't on-screen, characters are talking about him.

Meanwhile, the characters who used to matter on this show -- Willow, Xander and Giles, who with Buffy formed what is called the "core four" -- are getting nothing storywise; Willow gets a token lesbian relationship, Xander gets his eye poked out, and Giles gets to look like a bad guy for wanting to kill Spike (which, on the contrary, made some of us love Giles even more). In the words of "Sep," who recaps "Buffy" episodes for the famously snarky Web site Television Without Pity, "Watching episode after episode about Spike's journey when Giles has become a prick and I don't know a goddamn thing about what Willow or Xander are thinking, or even who they are anymore, and will likely never find out, breaks my heart."

It would be less of a problem if Spike were getting brilliantly fascinating stories, but he isn't, despite the potential inherent in the story of an evil creature trying to reform. At every turn, the "Buffy" staff has copped out on Spike's story, whitewashing his past (a flashback in a recent episode shows that even when he was turned into a vampire, he wasn't initially a vicious killer -- something that contradicts all the previous vampire mythology on the show) and making no attempt to show that having a soul has changed him one way or the other. By the evidence of this season's episodes, Spike is still a wisecracking punk who likes to hit women (he's hit Buffy, Anya and Faith so far this year) and isolate Buffy from her friends, yet we're still somehow supposed to sympathize with him, because ... why? Because he got a soul in the hope that Buffy would forgive his attempt to rape her and sleep with him again. Except for a couple of throwaway lines, Spike has never been made to seek redemption for his crimes; he doesn't even apologize to Principal Wood for having murdered his mother. The assumption appears to be that Spike doesn't need to atone because having a soul makes him a different and better person. But the writers haven't shown us that; all they've shown us is the same Fonzie figure from Seasons 5 and 6, only without the viciousness that made him moderately interesting.

From: http://dir.salon.com/ent/feature/2003/05/13/spike_buffy/

And it's continuation...

And when they write a decent Spike scene, it gets cut. The second episode of this season, "Beneath You," was originally supposed to end with a scene where Spike expresses guilt for his past crimes, admits that he got a soul for selfish reasons (he thought Buffy would love him if he had a soul), and arrives at the realization that having a soul hasn't made him good enough for Buffy ("God hates me. You hate me. I hate myself more than ever"). But creator Joss Whedon rewrote this scene so that Spike talked mostly about the fact that Buffy "used" him for sex -- just another attempt to create unearned sympathy for Spike and deemphasize his past role as a killer and sexual predator. And James Marsters, a good actor who has shown himself capable of the kind of underplaying this show used to thrive on, made matters worse by playing this scene as an over-the-top fit of lurching and moaning, like one of William Shatner's lesser method moments on "Star Trek." (The gratuitous shirtlessness just adds to the comparison.) Any interesting stories about a vampire with a soul have already been told on "Buffy" and "Angel"; with Spike, all we've been getting is a lot of half-naked posturing.

But it's not just the overemphasis on Spike that's the problem; it's the way this emphasis has betrayed one of the most appealing themes of the show: that it's OK to be uncool. "Buffy" began with a high school girl, formerly cool and popular, who discovers that she has a destiny that will prevent her from ever having a "normal" life. But she finds some comfort when she befriends people at the school who are social outcasts for other reasons: Willow, a shy computer geek; the loyal but socially awkward Xander; and Giles, head of a school library that none of the other students ever seem to visit. The bond between these four characters was the heart of the show for the first four seasons, more than anything else, even romance (there were many episodes where Buffy's love interest, Angel, didn't appear or was relegated to one or two token scenes). Every week, these characters proved what we'd all like to believe when we're outcasts in high school: that the uncool kids, the ones no one takes seriously, are really the coolest and most heroic of all.

To make this clear, the monsters on the show were often portrayed as the twisted embodiment of high school coolness. In the pilot, Xander's friend Jesse goes from "an excruciating loser" to an effortlessly cool bad boy after he is turned into a vampire. Another episode, "Reptile Boy," made frat boys the villains. And Spike, when introduced in Season 2, was exactly the kind of smartass punk who makes high school a miserable place for geeks: Arrogant, cocky and contemptuous of anyone who wasn't equally cool, he was a superficial, self-confident Fonzie type who deserved to get smacked down by our awkward heroes.

With the transformation of Spike into a lovable antihero, "Buffy" has stopped celebrating the uncool outcasts; instead, it celebrates the cool punk, the guy who would push the first-season Willow or Xander out of the way in the school halls. And it's not just Spike. Willow's new love interest, Kennedy, is a confident loudmouth with a privileged upbringing, who obnoxiously admires Willow not for her intelligence but for her power. Spike's nemesis, Principal Wood, is described in one of the scripts as "The Coolest Principal Ever." And Andrew, the show's answer to "The Simpsons'" Comic Book Guy, is constantly mocked for his geekiness, because a show that was once on the side of geeks now portrays them as buffoons or villains. And whereas the early seasons usually showed the characters learning how to defeat monsters by researching them in Giles' books, they now find everything they need on the Internet -- a far cry from Giles' wonderful first-season speech about the superiority of books over computers. It seems that on a show where an unrepentant mass murdering monster can be a hero, there's no more room for a celebration of the power of book learning, or the nobility of uncool people.

Which brings us back to "Happy Days," and the Fonz. Just as "Happy Days" went on for years with Fonzie even after Ron Howard left the show, there are rumors that the character of Spike may go on after the end of "Buffy" -- perhaps moving to "Angel," or perhaps to a spinoff. The character is popular; cool characters often are. But "Happy Days" was a better show in the first two years, when it was just about the uncool Richie Cunningham. And "Buffy" was a better show in the first four years, before Spike fell in love with Buffy, before Spike started taking his shirt off in every episode, and when the focus was on four uncool people and their quest to rid the world of ... well, of characters like Spike.

From: http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2003/05/13/spike_buffy/index1.html

Hm, I really think that this guy doesn't understand Spike or Buffy at all. But, I'll be back to post my thoughts on this later. :biggrin3:

Thoughts?
 
T
Tasha
ha, this is ridiculous.
X
xaphania
*eyeroll* (at the author of the article, not you, lol)
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
In case you're interested, I'm pretty sure there's an old thread on this article somewhere in the archives.
I don't think the writer of that article understands Spike at all.

This meta here is a far better understanding of his character. It's a good read.

Spike didn't ruin the show at all, quite the opposite. He enchanced it.
 
I agree, Amy. The writer of this "article" obviously doesn't understand his character, the general fan reaction to his character, or the purpose of Spike in the greater context of the show and to Buffy.

Oriana, this article has made its rounds on the boards before. And each time we argue over it. It's an absurd rant masquerading as an "article" written by an angry fan-boy with an obvious Spike-bias. No one character could "ruin" such a terrific show. That's ridiculous.

He doesn't address why Spike became such an important member of the show; because the fans wanted it.

I could go on for hours about how stupid this article is, but this quote takes the cake:

And "Buffy" was a better show in the first four years, before Spike fell in love with Buffy, before Spike started taking his shirt off in every episode, and when the focus was on four uncool people and their quest to rid the world of ... well, of characters like Spike.

I mean, come on!
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
[No message]
I agree, Amy. The writer of this "article" obviously doesn't understand his character, the general fan reaction to his character, or the purpose of Spike in the greater context of the show and to Buffy.

Oriana, this article has made its rounds on the boards before. And each time we argue over it. It's an absurd rant masquerading as an "article" written by a angry fan-boy who has an obvious Spike-bias. No one character could "ruin" such a terrific show. That's ridiculous.

He doesn't address why Spike became such an important member of the show; because the fans wanted it.

I could go on for hours about how stupid this article is, but this quote takes the cake:



I mean, come on!

Exactly, it's like the episode "Nightmares", with the author as the big scary man or whatever. :biggrin3: "There's seven other players on the team!" No one character can REALLY cause a downfall... (Unless, of course, we're discussing Evil!Cordy...)
 
I completely agree with the article. But apparently I just don't "get" it.

So, if you agree that Spike has the power to "ruin" the last three seasons of the show, that must suck for you. Assuming Buffy is one of your favorite shows - if not your all-time favorite as many of us here - that must suck to hate the last three seasons, huh?
(No sarcasm intended 🙂

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

No one character can REALLY cause a downfall... (Unless, of course, we're discussing Evil!Cordy...)

Or Conner, lol. He almost ruined Angel S4 for me.
 
I agree too with the article. I don't hate Spike, though, or the last three seasons. I regret that S7 was so centered around Spike and let so little screen time to Willow, Xander, Giles and Anya. But I still like this season very much.
 
A strange article in that it seems to place the blame mainly on season 7. Now I switch between liking and hating Spike, and I do think in many ways he had a negative effect on the show but I also felt season 7 did as much as it could to rectify it.
Season 4 & 5 Spike is who I had the biggest problem with. He was still clearly evil, would kill if he could, yet he was allowed to live. It wrecked the mission of the show in a way. Buffy was letting a killer live and a more human aspect of demons was introduced, which again damaged the show. I understood the human traits before that existed between vampires. They were dangerous, vicious creatures who were capable of love and feeling towards each other but I always seen that connection as a devotion between sires. Angel was addicted to Darla, and she loved him. Spike was obsessed with Drusilla and she loved him in turn. It was sick and twisted but to be quite honest, pretty cool and added a nice level to the vampires, almost as if the demons inside them loved each other, but then Spike was bringing Buffy flowers and chocolates. Huh? I didn't understand that. He was hanging out with her mum and sister - again more damage to the show. Why did a demon suddenly care for a human, and how was that possible. It placed the show into a grey area and the whole importance of a "soul" was ruined. A demon could suddenly care and support a person, so was he good or evil. This would lead to characters like Lorne and Clem who exist in this grey area. They're demons but with " humanity". Some people loved it, I never did. I think I fall on the side of demons being bad and humans being not always good, but capable of it due to having a soul.
I think Spike led the way for the "nice demons" and I do feel he damaged the show greatly, and if I could change things I would have had him leave after "Lover's Walk" and reappear maybe once a season. The mission seemed more important without him.
 
There was a time when I would have disagreed with this article but the more I have watched the show in recent times the more I have come to the same conclusion as the author.

I have openly admitted that I don't get Spike anymore several times on BB. I don't and this article pretty much sums up why.

While he may have made the show for some people, he ruined it for me.
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
Same, especially in Ats S5, he's so foreign to me... :/
I also usually find S7 Spike to be annoying (Ahhh, don't lynch me! 😛 ), but I still think that most of this, especially concerning Spuffy, is pretty false. 🙂

But the problems with this season can be traced to a moment at the very end of the last good episode, "Conversations With Dead People." That's the moment when Buffy found out that Spike, blond vampire, attempted rapist, and current possessor of a soul, had somehow been killing people despite his souled status. From that point on, the show has no longer been about Buffy and her friends, or Buffy and her mission, or anything that used to be interesting on this show. It's been about Buffy and Spike. And that's about all.

Was that entire episode about Buffy? No, it had all of the characters working out their issues. Spike was one of Buffy's issues, as in she had mixed feelings about him. For Buffy, it was an important episode, because she could move on after talking it out. 🙂 Meanwhile, Dawn and Willow were facing their own demons (some of them more psychological than others...), and the show kept on moving. It's not as though they could pretend that the whole Spuffy thing never happened.

It would be less of a problem if Spike were getting brilliantly fascinating stories, but he isn't, despite the potential inherent in the story of an evil creature trying to reform. At every turn, the "Buffy" staff has copped out on Spike's story, whitewashing his past (a flashback in a recent episode shows that even when he was turned into a vampire, he wasn't initially a vicious killer -- something that contradicts all the previous vampire mythology on the show) and making no attempt to show that having a soul has changed him one way or the other. By the evidence of this season's episodes, Spike is still a wisecracking punk who likes to hit women (he's hit Buffy, Anya and Faith so far this year) and isolate Buffy from her friends, yet we're still somehow supposed to sympathize with him, because ... why?

As if they can't hit back! 🙂 Faith hit him first most of the time, as does Buffy.

As for the isolation, S6 was a slippery season for ALL the characters, not just Spike.

Because he got a soul in the hope that Buffy would forgive his attempt to rape her and sleep with him again.

He got his soul, I quote, to be "The kind of man she deserves, the kind of man that would never-" He got his soul so that he wouldn't ever hurt Buffy again. He realized that he needed one to be truly good. He didn't expect Buffy to forgive him at all.

Except for a couple of throwaway lines, Spike has never been made to seek redemption for his crimes; he doesn't even apologize to Principal Wood for having murdered his mother.

It was a long time ago, and he didn't know that Nikki was Robin's mother. And afterwards, when he did know, Wood had just tried to assassinate him, I don't see why he would apologize to the guy that manipulated him and tried to kill him...?

His redemption was his final (more or less) act of dying to save the world. (Or rather Buffy, but whatever.)

The assumption appears to be that Spike doesn't need to atone because having a soul makes him a different and better person. But the writers haven't shown us that; all they've shown us is the same Fonzie figure from Seasons 5 and 6, only without the viciousness that made him moderately interesting.

The whole point was that it was still Spike. Not Spike and his evil twin, just Spike. Spike can be bad, Spike can be good, but it's always just going to be Spike. 🙂
And when they write a decent Spike scene, it gets cut. The second episode of this season, "Beneath You," was originally supposed to end with a scene where Spike expresses guilt for his past crimes, admits that he got a soul for selfish reasons (he thought Buffy would love him if he had a soul), and arrives at the realization that having a soul hasn't made him good enough for Buffy ("God hates me. You hate me. I hate myself more than ever"). But creator Joss Whedon rewrote this scene so that Spike talked mostly about the fact that Buffy "used" him for sex -- just another attempt to create unearned sympathy for Spike and deemphasize his past role as a killer and sexual predator. And James Marsters, a good actor who has shown himself capable of the kind of underplaying this show used to thrive on, made matters worse by playing this scene as an over-the-top fit of lurching and moaning, like one of William Shatner's lesser method moments on "Star Trek." (The gratuitous shirtlessness just adds to the comparison.) Any interesting stories about a vampire with a soul have already been told on "Buffy" and "Angel"; with Spike, all we've been getting is a lot of half-naked posturing.

I would've taken that to heart if the Writer gave us the link to where Joss said that...

And the point wasn't to have Spike portrayed as some selfless hero, it was to show how having a soul was affecting him.
 
OK, to clear something up, I don't agree entirely with the article's perception that Spike was portrayed as a cool guy, nor do I agree with the meta that claims he was portrayed as a loser. I think it was somewhere in between. When I said that I agreed with it, I meant that I agreed with the general idea that S6/7 Spike was an annoying character and that S6/7 wasn't very good.

So, if you agree that Spike has the power to "ruin" the last three seasons of the show, that must suck for you.

It wasn't solely Spike that ruined it for me, but he was perhaps the largest of many problems.

Assuming Buffy is one of your favorite shows - if not your all-time favorite as many of us here - that must suck to hate the last three seasons, huh?
(No sarcasm intended 🙂.

I love S5. It's only the last two seasons I have problems with.
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
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And when they write a decent Spike scene, it gets cut. The second episode of this season, "Beneath You," was originally supposed to end with a scene where Spike expresses guilt for his past crimes, admits that he got a soul for selfish reasons (he thought Buffy would love him if he had a soul), and arrives at the realization that having a soul hasn't made him good enough for Buffy ("God hates me. You hate me. I hate myself more than ever"). But creator Joss Whedon rewrote this scene so that Spike talked mostly about the fact that Buffy "used" him for sex -- just another attempt to create unearned sympathy for Spike and deemphasize his past role as a killer and sexual predator. And James Marsters, a good actor who has shown himself capable of the kind of underplaying this show used to thrive on, made matters worse by playing this scene as an over-the-top fit of lurching and moaning, like one of William Shatner's lesser method moments on "Star Trek." (The gratuitous shirtlessness just adds to the comparison.) Any interesting stories about a vampire with a soul have already been told on "Buffy" and "Angel"; with Spike, all we've been getting is a lot of half-naked posturing.

Wow, I didn't read that part of the "article" properly but this just goes to show how much the writer *doesn't* understand this scene.

The whole church scene in Beneath You is about everything that author says it's not.

Some meta that does understand the scene... In the Soddin' Engine: A Look at the Beneath You Church Scene, by gabriellabelle.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
YES! Thanks for that meta link.
I can understand the author's view but i'd have to disagree. Spike's involvement in the show was always a positive in my view.

I don't agree that Spike was the cause of the lack of interaction between Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles that was more down to it not being the same as they had all grown up and had other people in their lives. Buffy had Dawn, Xander had Anya, Willow had Tara and in the case of Giles this isolated him. It was a necessary development as you couldn't expect them to maintain that close bond as things change after high school.

The Spike storyline was intriquing to me as was his relationship with Buffy. The way their relationship changed over the years was fascinating and seeing that develop was a strength of the show.

I couldn't imagine the show without Spike personally.
 
Buffy without shirtless Spike? What a travesty. 😉 The more the show had Spike the more I liked it. His character arc was the most interesting. By S7 I was 100% sick of Xander and not as nuts about Willow or Giles anymore so the lack of "core four" time was just a relief.
 
Buffy without shirtless Spike? What a travesty. 😉
LOL! This made me giggle.

The more the show had Spike the more I liked it. His character arc was the most interesting. By S7 I was 100% sick of Xander and not as nuts about Willow or Giles anymore so the lack of "core four" time was just a relief.
Oh my, this is EXACTLY how I feel as well. It's like you read my mind, Dan. Spike has, is, and will always be the most interesting character on the show for me next to Buffy. The two together is even more interesting to me. Their dynamic never fails to fascinate me. People are still writing fic and meta in droves for these two. No offense, but can you say that about Bangel?

The Spike storyline was intriguing to me as was his relationship with Buffy. The way their relationship changed over the years was fascinating and seeing that develop was a strength of the show.
Again, I completely agree. They came completely full-circle. They started as mortal enemies, evolved into uneasy allies, progressed to lovers, and eventually found peace as friends. Beautiful stuff. Spike went from a disposable villain to a Hero.

I couldn't imagine the show without Spike personally.
Me, either. I put a lot of thought into what I feel personally is a unhealthy obsession I have with this character, and in the end, I too couldn't imagine the show without him. He didn't make the show for me, but he very much enhanced it for me.

There was a time when I would have disagreed with this article but the more I have watched the show in recent times the more I have come to the same conclusion as the author.

I have openly admitted that I don't get Spike anymore several times on BB. I don't and this article pretty much sums up why.

While he may have made the show for some people, he ruined it for me.
Kean, I know you recently said that you think Spike is a fraud and that we don't really know him - but recently I've decided, where I can see where you're coming from, I have to disagree. If we're to say that for a character like Spike, who's changed so much both because of internal and external forces, we'd have to say that about Willow or Buffy as well.
 
Kean
Kean
Disagree away hun! I can't make sense nor meaning of my Spike stance but it is just how I feel about him right now, maybe it will change, maybe it won't :)
I agree with this article...to an extent. I thought there was entirely too much focus placed on Spike. And not just Spike but "Spuffy" . I hate the tendency that writers seem to have of needing to keep their characters in bed with someone (well as far as season 6 went).
That's what I blame Kennedy on too.

Do I think it ruined the show single-handedly? Nope.
 
There are several things which bother me with Spike's story. And I am blaming the writers for it, not the character. It's complicated but I believe that sometimes characters have the potential to give sth better to the audience and the writers prevent that.

First, I would like to see Spike APOLOGISE for his crimes. I know he is not at fault, now that he has a soul, but his attitude didn't change much. Now he can tell right from wrong, but I wanted a speech about how he feels about himself and not just "I did it for Buffy".

Second, I know spuffy in s6 sucks(at least for me) and I know that both characters are to blame. But Spike becoming the victim as the slayer's sex toy doesn't fit for me. It doesn't satisfy me. I don't know if I am making any sense, but they are both to blame and then, we can't really blame anyone cause they were both messed up. But making Spike Buffy's victim is not ok. He wanted this in s6, he knew Buffy would never love him like this(evil, without a soul etc) but he needed it and he pursued her.

Three, I feel s7 disappointed me cause there is not a Scooby Gang anymore. One of the basic elements of the show(and basic elements of its success) is the friendship of the Scoobies. Instead we get Buffy excusing Spike for everything he does.This is not me going against spuffy, I just try to understand why the writers didn't give us sth better.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I don't think it's as simple as making Spike Buffy's victim...it's a complicated situation.
I don't think the show was ever about the "uncool outcasts" .. the characters were all cool in their own way. They're never really depicted (apart from Xander maybe but eventually the writers make him "cool") as socially backwards.

I think the writers also wanted to make Spike different from Angel. Spike was never about being a champion or atoning for his crimes, for better or worse that's just how his character was; he fell into a grey area without a soul so with a soul he still falls into that grey area.
 
I like the 7th Season of Buffy, but I thought the low-light of the series was all the Spike. Theres way to much of him and not enough of the core 4.

I hated what they did to giles character turning him into a bad guy when all he was doing was protecting them all from the waiting-to-be-triggered serial killer!

It's no secret Im not a fan of what Spike became, He started out awesome but, for me, really sucked at the end. I don't think he ruined the show though, but I do skip Spike bits like at the end of Beneth You and the Spike flashback one!
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
I love your avvie! :)
This "article" always gets passed around, doesn't it? I read it a few years ago. It angered me then, it angers me now, and it will probably still anger me in a few months or years when I see it again. Sad that it takes someone talking loudly, not accurately, to make something stick.

I know it's a matter of opinion, and there will always be characters that don't GET Spike. Just like there will always be people who don't GET Heathcliff--this is the sort of debate that has been around forever with all types of story-telling. When you get an incredibly romantic, yet completely morally ambiguous character, you get those who love him and those who hate him. He is romanticized, he is condemned, and neither side is entirely accurate because both usually disregard some aspect of his character in order to prove their points. Ah, the Byronic hero. What would we do without them?

Anyway, this article shows the other side of Spike, the side that isn't facinated by his romantic appeal and really can't understand the purpose of his character. I obviously am and can, so I can't say I'll ever agree. He made Buffy so much better for me, and I don't think I'd love it as much without him.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Well said, Kelsey.
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