Because Spike wants to be her ally. He wants to help- that requires some level of trust between the two of them otherwise Buffy's is going to be distracted with one eye on him all the damn time.
We are talking about Spike here - the unflappable paragon of civil sensible planning. Not all that much really. Buffy makes that choice without coercion. He tried to coerce her once - tried to force physically too. Didn't go well for either of them.
There are different degrees of trust in any relationship. Friends, family, co-workers, 'romantic partner'. Spike can't be her lover anymore but he can be her work collegue- that's specifically why he's there in Sunnydale.
And that's putting a positive, pro-Spike spin on things- you could also say he came back to Sunnydale to try, on some level, to re-initiate a romance with Buffy again but the First's macinations drove him crazy before anything could happen.
I believe the second one. He thought if he could prove himself safe, to his standards, then maybe...but once he got his soul he knew he really was beneath her. But he still needs to make reparation - and that need comes with the soul.
How is it manipulative to tell somebody the truth? He tells Buffy at the end of the episode doesn't he? So it's moot anyway. But the way he tells her is specifically to garner as much sympathy (by the writers, not the character) as possible, blame Buffy for her past behaviour, while still casting Spike in the best light possible- a poor, broken man.
I thought we both felt that bringing in the writers was sloppy arguing.
My view - he thought he could hold it together and he couldn't. He freaked and ran away, took off the costume. He told her, and he was half crazy and desperate. I assume Buffy left shortly after, and she hadn't seen him for whatever period of time between episodes.
Also soulled Spike is an entirely different person in my view so no, I don't agree that he 'betrayed' Buffy because they've never actually met (just like Angelus met Buffy for the first time in 'Innocence'). Spike may have those memories, he may feel responsible but that's it. That's also how everybody else reacts when they find out- Buffy especially.
Well, I think Spike does feel responsible - and he doesn't agree that Angelus wasn't. At least at that time. He's kinda all over the place with that one - still figuring it out in Damage.
No, he felt it because of what the 'other guy' did. Remember that all these trust issues go away by the time 'Never Leave Me' rolls around. Spike has a soul and to everybody that's all that matters, even when he's being forced to kill people at the behest of supreme evil Buffy still trusts him and 'believes' in him.
Yeah, after Spike admits he killed, turned and buried - and it's a trap. He goes vamp, next trap, then he is completely startled by tasting Buffy's blood, begs to be staked, and explains what is going on as far as he knows. - Buffy trusts him enough to tie him up and try to find out what he knows. When he shows he can break the chair and attack, she kicks him in the head and chains him in the basement. Where - once he knows he can be triggered he begs her to kill him, and tries to taunt her into staking him. But she won't
because he has a soul. He knows what he can do if that demon is triggered and has no chip and he
wants her to stake him
.
That's exactly why he didn't want to tell her earlier. He wants her free to stake him. It seemed the idea that she would believe in him was not really something he had considered. And then he was able to survive the First. Torture does give you confidence in your ability to control.
I disagree, his guilt is only later on and triggered primarily by his killling spree- the fact that he's unknowingly killed and turned a dozen or so people. That's why he wants Buffy to stake him, but before? I don't see it.
Obviously he wanted to be staked - he offers himself up easily later on - this is the later on portion I was referring to.
*sigh* Why are we dragging Angel into this again?
Fine, Angel 'explodes' when he fires his staff, when he discovers that Wesley has betrayed him, Spike was 'imploding' in the basement all on his own. There's no hard and fast rule with these two. They can go either way.
BECAUSE I SHIP THEM! They are connected in my mind, they have a long history, and they are the only regular characters that have this bond. Why is this a bad thing? Hell, I started an entire thread on the idea that saying something good about one is not an attack on the other! I know there are other characters that people ship that show up in threads - Faith, Anya, Buffy, etc - that aren't about them. Never heard anyone object to that! I ship them - I love them both. They are very different in some ways. I analyze and compare. One brings the other to mind and the analysis here tends to do that
Angel implodes - I would mean the cold way he fired them - the darkness inside that he allows to rise as he plans. Spike explodes - "Spike: “What’s this? Sitting around watching the telly while there’s evil still a foot. (Turns the TV off) That’s not very industrious of you. I say we go out there (Rubs his hands together) and kick a little demon ass! (Xander and Willow stare at him) What, can’t go without your Buffy, is that it? To chicken? Let’s find her! She is the Chosen One after all. – Come on! Vampires! Grrr! Nasty! Let’s annihilate them. For justice - and for - the safety of puppies – and Christmas, right? Let’s *fight* that evil! - Let’s *kill* something! (Fade to black) Oh, come *on*!”. He uses his energy in a different way.
Yes but the soul is 'trust', at least in regards to Buffy- we are shown this later on.
So why doesn't Spike say anything, he doesn't have to take any credit, just say 'I got a soul so I wouldn't try and do that terrible thing like I did before. I've changed Buffy, but I'm just here to help.'
That's not manipulation, that's constructivly trying to build a different kind of relationship so he can help, not distract.
He doesn't trust himself. He wants her to make her own choice on what to do with him.
My point is that Buffy didn't leave him in the school basement for months like you stated, she says for Spike to stay with one of her friends- presumably so she can keep and eye on him (or Xander can). She could've just moved him back to his old crypt, or maybe a motel but instead Spike is kept within her circle of friends.
Okay - there are all sorts of ways the episodes date. In Ats, between two and three Wesley says a month passed. In another it was days. So let's just agree to disagree since canon conflicts. No set time unless expressed. And yes - she puts him in with the Xander who can be voted the Scooby most likely to stake. Who reviles the idea itself. Okay, it's definitely a step above the basement but not really in the bosom. And he could have moved back to the crypt at any time, anyway. Now that he was out of the basement and feeling more sane he could leave but he stays because she put him there.
I still say that Buffy feels strong guilt/obligation for Spike and that is her primary motivation for the first half of the season. She doesn't want his soul search (and incidentally their whole S6 relationship) to be in vain.
She probably does feel guilt. Buffy accepts that she was half of the problem in the relationship. That she was depressed and went and played sex games with an unsouled demon who could hurt her, who had a demon love for her (obsession, controlling, etc), who was amazingly hot for her, and who she hated, who she felt was everything wrong in the world, and who she could never love.
I've simply expressed an opinion and backed it up with examples from the show. I honestly don't understand what's wrong with that, this is a board where we all come to discuss/debate.
I have made no secret that I dislike the character of Spike in S6/7, but I have legitimate reasons and have stated them.
Hey, reread - this is what I was saying too! Is cool!
😕
