Why the Spike hate?

[zobothehobo]

It's no secret Spike is my favorite character. He's my favorite fictional character of all time. I do not have words to describe my love for Spike. I've recently read a lot of people on here saying they don't like Spike... some have gone as far to say they hate him. Me loving Spike as much as I do, I can honestly not see the reasons for hating Spike... so that brings up the question. If you do not like Spike, why? I just don't understand, and I'd like to.

 

[Spikefan31]

Spike ftw!!!!! Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! 😀

Thought that was appropriate. Needed to be done. 😀

 

[AustCF]

I can't imagine hating Spike... who are these people that do? Are they nuts?? LOL, j/k, but seriously what is there to hate?

 

[The Unspoken]

I imagine this debate will turn out much like the last part of 'Smashed'.

Extremely violent. But minus the sexy times.

 

[Nikita]

a) The character made the worst development on the show. Him being taken away in a dustpan would've been 100x better than what they did.

b) His whining in Season 5, 6 and 7 is so annoying and I get over it really quickly.

c) Seeing Red.

d) Crush, I mean, he could've went with Drusilla who was soul-less and evil like him, and he's still 'in love' with Buffy? I don't even believe he was in love with Buffy in the first place.

e) He is so annoying, like his overall way of being just pisses me off, his hair, his face, the way he talks to everyone just makes me so angry, and doesn't just stop me from liking an episode, but puts heavy spike episodes in a bad category (the exception being Fool For Love, which was his last great episode.)

There's more but I feel like I'm gunna get crucified for this much :|

---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

WakingNightmare agrees: I'm not trying to be annoying or anything but what are your thoughts on souled Spike? All of this is soulless Spike stuff. Just wondering.

Not all of it is Soulless Spike stuff. He was more annoying for me in Season 7 with the Spuffy, I mean it was all unnecessary and he was way more interesting without being with Buffy. (The scene in Smashed is unbelievably unnecessary aswell, I don't know why they had to put it in.)

He whines in Season 7 more then ever, and I think I'm one of the only people that doesn't find the scene in Chosen incredibly touching, because I don't believe that he's a good person (or vamperson) and I just refuse to see it the way that Spuffy and Spike fans choose to see it, well, not that I refuse, but that I can't.

I'm sorry to offend you guys but I just really don't see it the way you see it because I CAN'T like Spike, and I know that a lot of people do but I just can't see it the way you guys do. 🙁

 

[WakingNightmare]

Not all of it is Soulless Spike stuff. He was more annoying for me in Season 7 with the Spuffy, I mean it was all unnecessary and he was way more interesting without being with Buffy. (The scene in Smashed is unbelievably unnecessary aswell, I don't know why they had to put it in.)

He whines in Season 7 more then ever, and I think I'm one of the only people that doesn't find the scene in Chosen incredibly touching, because I don't believe that he's a good person (or vamperson) and I just refuse to see it the way that Spuffy and Spike fans choose to see it, well, not that I refuse, but that I can't.

I'm sorry to offend you guys but I just really don't see it the way you see it because I CAN'T like Spike, and I know that a lot of people do but I just can't see it the way you guys do. 🙁

Alright I hate to come across as argumentative or annoying but you say here that can't see Spike as a good manpire, well do see him as a bad manpire? There is a diffrence, after all. I just want to understand how other people see it 😱

 

[Nikita]

Alright I hate to come across as argumentative or annoying but you say here that can't see Spike as a good manpire, well do see him as a bad manpire? There is a diffrence, after all. I just want to understand how other people see it 😱

I saw him as a good bad manpire (if that makes sense) in his original run in 2, 3 and 4 but as soon as he fell in love with Buffy I just felt that an opportunity for a great character went down the drain and that sucks 🙁

 

[Litheran]

I hated in Wrecked that while I was trying to enjoy the sight of Buffy with post-sex hair looking all flushed and well rested; Spike's just sitting there with his alabaster chest being all smooth and showing why I could never get a super hot slayer.

Must do more crunches!..one thousand one...one thousand two...Etc,...

 

[Gotham]

I don't hate Spike, I like him, I just found it hard to relate to him. Season 6 bummed me out big time, and Spike was a big part of that.

I thought the interaction between Spike and Buffy in The Gift was the perfect way to end the arc of Spike's love for her. What happened after that was just, ah, unbelievable (in the bad sense). 🙂

 

[Kana]

I like Spike, and always have but I do have some friends who are Angel fans who feel that they hate Spike because of some Spike fans.

A lot of the things that annoyed them were arguments like:

Spike fought to get soul and Angel didn't

I know most fans here don't compare the two but sometimes fans get baggage from previous forums. It's not fair on Spike but sometimes they need to defend Angel by saying the classic: "Spike's intentions weren't pure" or "He was just doing it to get Buffy".

Spike's soul story is too similar to Angel's

I actually dispute this but I think some fans' contention is the fact that you don't need another story regarding a vampire with a soul.

Spike's character was destroyed when he fell in love with Buffy

Again, although I'm not a fan of the whole changing for love thing. I not a fan of it in real life. I'm more interested in a character figuring out their moral identity due to consciously reassessing their values. This said, I don't mind Spike's journey, I just don't relate to it. He is a unique character and that alone is what I appreciate.

Lack of guilt for the past

I used to see this a lot on the old forums. People felt that he was too glib about the past whereas Angel had more of a healthy respect for his victims. Ok my opinion is that I don't judge soulless vampires for their actions. How can you blame them for not following a conscience they do not have? I don't get at Angel for brooding about it though. As long as it doesn't lead to inaction or total nihilism because then he's useless as a champion.

One point I will say is that I didn't like Spike's attitude towards Wood. I get he was annoyed but I found what he said disrespectful to both Robin and Nikki.

And I'm not going to even go into the AR...

I think sometimes it's just a personality thing. A lot of people get annoyed at Angel for brooding too much, or for Xander's hypocrisy etc. No character is perfect but if you identify with them more, you're going to be less forgiving of their faults or their journey.

What I don't like is:

Double standards,

Especially on the whole soul/no soul thing. This works both ways. I don't judge his soulless actions AT ALL. That means what could be considered good or bad. I always put it under question mark. Doesn't mean that we can't be annoyed or moved respectively but if I've judging him, I've got to be fair.

 

[Mumrik]

I liked Spike as a villain. He was fantastic in season 2 and at least still funny in season 4, but this is where it went downhill. He got so very annoying from the point on he fell in love with Buffy. Then there was Seeing Red (which I won't go into), after which I thought I could never like the character again and season 7 didn't help to change my opinion.

I came to like him at least a little again on Angel season 5, because his interactions with Angel are usually hilarious, but I still don't like his character, as in the person he's supposed to be, not the fictional character Spike. He doesn't seem to feel any remorse and even when he claims he's sorry, I don't believe him and he's become too ... pathetic to like for being gleefully evil-ish.

I certainly don't like him because I think he is, was or became a good person. He was a good villain character, but not a good hero character. Not even an anti-hero. I did buy him as an anti-villain, however. I just think he wasn't handled well.

Also, I think a lot of Spike fans like him (not purely, of course, but it factors into it) because he's sexy and are more willing to give him a free pass because of that fact. I don't think he's sexy. At all.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

The thing about Spike and where I turned the character off was Season 7; until that time Spike was seemingly a perfect, complete character. He was very much a stand-alone, singular character- regardless if running with Dru, Angel(us) or the Anointed One. Even when he was Scooby-non-grata he still had that allure of individuality, which was rare on the show. Season 7 he felt more like a sidekick; he was a gimmick to progress the story and drama and you lost his story and character as a result. Spike became the drama in season 7 versus being a part of the drama.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

You know why I don't like him.

Hmmm, well, I can't really say I don't like him, but.. you all know I loved him in season 2. He was an amazing character. Really refreshing, especially with all the drama that was going on. Him and Cordelia were the ones who brought 'the funny' in the show at the moment. I was so happy when he came back in season 3, and when I saw him again in season 4. He was so funny with Harmony, and when he got chipped. When, where did it went wrong? Pretty much when he realized he's in love with Buffy. He was still funny in season 5, but in season 6, I started to slightly hate him, partly because of what he became, and partly because of Spuffy. I would say his highlights in my eyes were 'Out. For. A. Walk. Bitch.' and when he forgot who he truly is in 'Tabula Rasa'.. in season 7, I pretty much didn't cared is he there or not.

 

[The Unspoken]

I liked Spike as a villain. He was fantastic in season 2 and at least still funny in season 4, but this is where it went downhill. He got so very annoying from the point on he fell in love with Buffy. Then there was Seeing Red (which I won't go into), after which I thought I could never like the character again and season 7 didn't help to change my opinion.

I came to like him at least a little again on Angel season 5, because his interactions with Angel are usually hilarious, but I still don't like his character, as in the person he's supposed to be, not the fictional character Spike. He doesn't seem to feel any remorse and even when he claims he's sorry, I don't believe him and he's become too ... pathetic to like for being gleefully evil-ish.

I certainly don't like him because I think he is, was or became a good person. He was a good villain character, but not a good hero character. Not even an anti-hero. I did buy him as an anti-villain, however. I just think he wasn't handled well.

Also, I think a lot of Spike fans like him (not purely, of course, but it factors into it) because he's sexy and are more willing to give him a free pass because of that fact. I don't think he's sexy. At all.

For accuracy's sake, I would like to point out that he did feel sorry. We see him mutilate himself in 'Lessons' and 'Beneath You' and he feels his soul 'burn' as a result of his past misdeeds. He also presumably spent a few months going crazy in the school basement because The First haunted him with apparitions of his past victims.

But yes, a lot comes down to whether a character simply appeals to you. Which I think explains the massive hate for characters like Dawn and Riley who, you know, never committed genocide or anything...

 

[zobothehobo]

So it seems a great many people didn't like the falling in love with Buffy storyline. I quite honestly really cannot understand that at all. I think Spike was SO much cooler when he was good and trying to help and in love with Buffy. I also don't think he was ever a scary villain... He was at least threatening... but then Angelus came and then Spike was a terrible villain. I didn't buy Spike being this crazy villainous creature in Lover's Walk AT ALL. But I thought his story and journey to finally becoming a hero at the end was beautiful and inspiring. What is it you guys don't like about it. I mean there's got to be more than "I didn't like it."

Like I said before, this thread is not about debating... I just want to understand. Don't be afraid to tell me what is you don't like about Spike. I won't crucify you... I just want to get it.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

What is it you guys don't like about it. I mean there's got to be more than "I didn't like it."

Season 7 he was one-diminesional and flat. His character lost all the spark and spunk that made him one of the better characters in the series. Season 7 his character was just written as fannish masturbari, to give loyal viewers and the masses what they wanted. I believe in one of the commentaries Joss mentions that himself.

 

[Kean]

But I thought his story and journey to finally becoming a hero at the end was beautiful and inspiring. What is it you guys don't like about it. I mean there's got to be more than "I didn't like it."

I can't explain this any more than saying I just don't believe in it. Not in his story, much less his heroism. It doesn't feel sincere to me. I respond even less to his posturing and bravado. I find that incredibly annoying and generally find that my eyes will roll the second he comes on the screen.

What really bugs me though is the way he changes who he is depending on who is the main person in his life:His mother, Cecily, Dru, Buffy and Angel. He just doesn't feel like an authentic character to me, at all.

All of this really results in me not liking him. If I wasn't involved in fandom that is probably how my feelings on Spike would have remained. However, being part of a fandom where it isn't very acceptable to not like him...well it just encourages resentment against the character.

Stupid reason, I know. But I can't help it.

 

[Mumrik]

For accuracy's sake, I would like to point out that he did feel sorry. We see him mutilate himself in 'Lessons' and 'Beneath You' and he feels his soul 'burn' as a result of his past misdeeds. He also presumably spent a few months going crazy in the school basement because The First haunted him with apparitions of his past victims.

But that's the thing, I just don't buy it. I think he's feeling sorry, yes, but mostly for himself rather than others, like his victims.

But yes, a lot comes down to whether a character simply appeals to you. Which I think explains the massive hate for characters like Dawn and Riley who, you know, never committed genocide or anything...

But you're definitely right about that. 😉

So it seems a great many people didn't like the falling in love with Buffy storyline. I quite honestly really cannot understand that at all. I think Spike was SO much cooler when he was good and trying to help and in love with Buffy.

It just boils down to personal opinion. Some people liked it, some didn't. That's just the way it is. You'll have to take our word for it 😉

I also don't think he was ever a scary villain... He was at least threatening... but then Angelus came and then Spike was a terrible villain. I didn't buy Spike being this crazy villainous creature in Lover's Walk AT ALL.

I didn't like Spike because he was a scary villain, he was a good villain. An entertaining one, who doesn't have a motive, like Angelus did, but simply does it for the sake of being evil and having fun. I still think that was fantastic, it made him a loose cannon. As evidenced at the end of season 2.

But I thought his story and journey to finally becoming a hero at the end was beautiful and inspiring. What is it you guys don't like about it. I mean there's got to be more than "I didn't like it."

I don't think he became a hero, that's just it. Everything he did, he did for selfish reasons. Even getting his soul back, he did it because he ultimately wanted to get Buffy to like him (again). Sacrificing himself in Chosen? He wanted to go out being remembered as a hero, wanted Buffy to love him, not because it was the right thing to do. That isn't heroic at all. It's petty and selfish.

Well, at least that's my take on it. You, obviously, see it quite differently 😉

 

[zobothehobo]

I don't think he became a hero, that's just it. Everything he did, he did for selfish reasons. Even getting his soul back, he did it because he ultimately wanted to get Buffy to like him (again). Sacrificing himself in Chosen? He wanted to go out being remembered as a hero, wanted Buffy to love him, not because it was the right thing to do. That isn't heroic at all. It's petty and selfish.

I said this wasn't going to be a debate and I mean it... But I hate it when people say everything Spike did was for selfish reasons. I especially hate it when people say sacrificing himself in Chosen was for selfish reasons. What could he have done do you think would have been more selfless than that? Buffy told him she loved him and instead of saying "Ok, I got everything I wanted now! Let's go be with Buffy self and to hell with the world!" like he would have done arguably even a season before... he told her she didn't so she wouldn't hurt so bad and died. Is there a more selfless act?

Yes The Unspoken is right, Intervention and taking care of Dawn after Buffy's death were also both selfless acts.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

he told her she didn't so she wouldn't hurt so bad and died.

LOL... see, I am a red-blooded American man and I thought he said that for a whole 'nother reason! So she wouldn't hurt so bad? haha.. no, that thought never entered my mind when it aired.

---------- Post added at 10:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------

Well what did you think? Surely you didn't think he didn't believe her. He knew her better than that

Much like Han Solo telling Leia "I know" when she finally confessed her love for him. I think it was the ultimate power trip. Him saying "no, you dont" would mean to haunt her for the rest of her life.. here is a man willing to die to save her, and she was so closed off that he didnt believe her when she said she loved him. She did love him. And his saying "No, you dont" would be a long lasting wound that would affect every relationship after him.

It is a typical guy thing to do; it's called payback for having to friggin kill himself to get her to say it.

That is the thought that ran thru my head first time it aired and I really believe it to be true. Now you can argue that maybe good and noble Spike was saying that to get Buffy to admit her feelings sooner to any potential suitors in the future- thats fine too. But I do believe that is why he said it.