Why the Spike hate?

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Wait, there are some people that don't like Spike ... my world is spinning 😛

Just kidding. Spike is my all time favourite character even though I know he has flaws. There's definately a difference between liking his character and appreciating James' acting to thinking that Spike is a a perfect hero and a perfect villain. I absolutely hate Spike for what he did in Seeing Red and I don't think that his soul actomatically makes him a hero but i do think that him progressing towards becoming a hero whilst constantly battling the evil inside him makes his one of the most interesting journeys on the show. Also the fact that he slips up only gives his character more depth and makes the spuffy relationship more dynamic and engaging.

Plus he's really hot 🙂
 
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StarSlayer
Yes! His journey of becoming a hero! Well said :)
^With James' "over-acting," you have to remember that he was a theater actor first. They tend to act "bigger" because they were trained to act on stage. I don't think James ever over-acted (I've seen so many others actually over-act to believe so), but I think his acting got better with each season, and his accent especially.

Well, Spike's supposed to be over the top. I mean, what else can you do with dialogue like 'Have you gone completely carrot top?'
Spike's most understated in season 7, but I think that's a conscious decision on James' part, to express being ensouled. I definitely think he's one of the finest actors in the 'verse.
 
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StarSlayer
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xaphania
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Spikefan31
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prophecygrrl
JM karma :D
zobothehobo agrees: And he himself will say that and has several times. The transition from stage was dificult on him.
Kana agrees: Yeah he commented on this in Hallowhedon. Anyways I'm not of the bro's opinion, I enjoyed his acting just fine

Lol, I honestly never knew he said things like that! Good to know I'm on the same page as him. 😉 😀 And I enjoyed his acting too. I think the only person's acting I had a problem with at times was Mercedes' acting, but I'm getting off topic now, lol!
 
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Spikefan31
[No message]
I'm a huge Spike and Spuffy fan (though Buffy's my favorite character). No secret about that. 😀 And this thread really made me think. My opinion on Spike/Spuffy hasn't changed, but regarding fandom reaction influencing whether or not we like certain characters/ships, I realized totally get that. That's happened to me. For *most* of us, (Bree, you're a special one, LOL! 😀) fandom reaction can definitely influence our opinions, and I actually don't think that's a bad thing. Because for all of us, all of us here posting on a forum dedicated to BtVS, we're not just passive viewers of a TV show. We're involved in fandom. We talk about plot points, we debate, we ship things; I mean come on, we create art inspired by this show and these characters! 😛 That takes some dedication. I mean, yes- it makes sense that our opinions will be influenced by fandom reaction. But I'm also saying that maybe it's okay that it does. Our experiencing the show also includes our experiences discussing and talking about the show, doesn't it? We obviously experience and interpret things differently from each other in that sense, so shouldn't including fandom reaction in how much we like/dislike something be normal? Or at least just that fandom isn't something that should be discounted entirely?
 
Kean
Kean
Thanks for getting it :)
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zobothehobo
I agree. And I get it too
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StarSlayer
LOL! Well, the fandom did influence me to love Spuffy more if that counts! :D I totally agree with your post, but I still just don't get how if some people originally liked something, the fans (of the same thing they liked) made them dislike it.
I was gonna come in here and have some awesome post about why no one's gonna understand why anyone hates any character...

And then Flannen beats be to it and steals my thunder, lol.

It's no secret on this board that Connor and Lindsey are my favorite Whedonverse characters of all time. Two of the most flawed, gray-minded, border-line evil characters ever written. But I love them. *I* love them, and I know 99.9% of the rest of BB HATES Connor with a fiery passion. And that's fine, 'cause, seriously, he was a TERRIBLE character. Even I know that, and I'm not going to try and convince anyone to think otherwise, because my reasons for loving Connor have absolutely nothing to do with what happened on screen. I can't change anyone's mind about Connor, and no one can change my mind about him. It's just the way we are as fans.

I'll admit, Spike used to be my favorite character, up until a few years ago. I was also a pretty hardcore Spuffy. But watching the show again, as an adult, I see him differently. I can't explain why, I just do.

I like him up until S5. I think his S5 storyline, falling in love with Buffy, was actually well written, and I did like that, and before that, he made an awesome bad guy, and he was hilarious in S4. S6 and S7 is where it all goes wrong for me. I don't know if it's because he actually managed to have a 'relationship' with Buffy, or if it was something else, I don't know, but I went right off him. I think maybe I was just hoping that he would continue to pine for her, and then go right off the deep-end when he realized he would never have her and slaughter everyone in sight. That woulda been cool, lol.

As human beings, were made to love and hate different things. This would be a pretty boring existence if we all loved the same things, and this would be a pretty boring place if we were running around all shouting the same thing with Spuffy or Bangel banners.

As Spike fans, you're never going to understand why we dislike him. As Spike haters, we're never going to understand why you love him so much. It's just the way the world works.
 
Kana
Kana
Connor Karma
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Gotham
[No message]
Kean
Kean
You're my favourite ;)
Flannen
Flannen
You should have some thunder back for this post! ;-)
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TheVoid68
I agree about Spike being great up to and including S5, but losing it in S6/7
I think I've got a pretty clear understanding of why some people hate Spike. He's selfish, arrogant, impulsive, annoying and many other bad things. I just feel that his good outweighs his bad. I know he is horribly flawed and that's just a part of why I am like him. Other people don't because of the bad traits I've listed above.

Well, I think so anyway.
 
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zobothehobo
I guess I can kind of get it...
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StarSlayer
Lol, I still don't get it cause Spike was all those things at different stages. But I agree in that the good outweighed the bad :)
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Spikefan31
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For me, it is as simple as when I watch far too many of his scenes I come out with negative emotions ranging from mild annoyance and boredom to pity and disgust. I don't actually HATE him, but I am very far from his biggest fan. He's great in season 2 and there are several times in seasons 4 through 7 when I do like him, but I don't like how he acts towards Buffy which is a HUGE part of the show and overall, he is probably my least favorite of the main Buffy cast.
 
StarSlayer agrees: Lol, I still don't get it cause Spike was all those things at different stages. But I agree in that the good outweighed the bad.

I agree with that as well and honestly, I feel like that's what we should be looking at with any character, to be honest. It's fine if there are character's that you don't like, because there are certainly character's that I don't particularly care for and hate with a fury of a thousand burning suns (Carly Jax being one of them off General Hospital and we're talking nearly 16 years worth of hate here), but as with hating/disliking any character there needs to be reasons why and not just because you don't like the actor/actress hired to play the character or anything like that.

I mean, I suppose that can be a reason, but it's a pretty shallow reason. I make comments like, "I enjoy GH mostly because it's got pretty eyecandy," but I don't necessarily mean it in a literal "this is the only reason I'm watching the show," kind of way.

If you tell me you don't like Spike because of that "one scene" in Seeing Red, then I can understand that. If you tell me that you don't like him, because he's arrogant, impulsive, evil, among other things then I can kind of get that too. But telling me that you don't like just because you don't like him or making it seem as those of us who are genuinely curious as to why people dislike him and would like to know why honestly feel bad bad for even asking in the first place is another thing I kind of don't like.

I mean if you don't want to share because you're afraid someone might try and change your mind, that's fine. You don't have to, but don't make someone else feel bad for asking the question.
 
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zobothehobo
THANK YOU! I've felt so horrible since I posted this because people have been critisicing me for asking the question. I didn't see these people in Kana's Riley hate post! I am genuinely curious and would like to understand my fellow Buffy fans
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Marisa
You hate Carly I kind of love her lol. But yes I agree about this post.
Kana
Kana
I'm Kana and I approve this message
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StarSlayer
Exactly! :) I'm not trying to force people to like a certain character. I'm curious what they see, simple as that.
brinkster130
brinkster130
Sometimes it can be hard to explain why you like or dislike a character. For example I LOVE Carly, even though she is annoying, manipulative, hypocritical etc. There is no logical way to explain why I like character.
I agree with that as well and honestly, I feel like that's what we should be looking at with any character, to be honest. It's fine if there are character's that you don't like, because there are certainly character's that I don't particularly care for and hate with a fury of a thousand burning suns (Carly Jax being one of them off General Hospital and we're talking nearly 16 years worth of hate here), but as with hating/disliking any character there needs to be reasons why and not just because you don't like the actor/actress hired to play the character or anything like that.

I mean, I suppose that can be a reason, but it's a pretty shallow reason. I make comments like, "I enjoy GH mostly because it's got pretty eyecandy," but I don't necessarily mean it in a literal "this is the only reason I'm watching the show," kind of way.

If you tell me you don't like Spike because of that "one scene" in Seeing Red, then I can understand that. If you tell me that you don't like him, because he's arrogant, impulsive, evil, among other things then I can kind of get that too. But telling me that you don't like just because you don't like him or making it seem as those of us who are genuinely curious as to why people dislike him and would like to know why honestly feel bad bad for even asking in the first place is another thing I kind of don't like.

I mean if you don't want to share because you're afraid someone might try and change your mind, that's fine. You don't have to, but don't make someone else feel bad for asking the question.
It cut my rep off. I would genuinely like to understand my fellow Buffy fans and their differing opinions. That's why I come on this website. You don't have to answer the question if you don't want to but I feel like people hate me for posting this. But I just want to try to understand.
 
It cut my rep off. I would genuinely like to understand my fellow Buffy fans and their differing opinions. That's why I come on this website. You don't have to answer the question if you don't want to but I feel like people hate me for posting this. But I just want to try to understand.

I understand and I feel the same, myself. You shouldn't feel bad for wanting to discuss something and it shouldn't be turned around by anyone who does come in here and offer's their reason's for why they don't like the character either by saying, "Well, why should we..." well my response to them is, "you don't, but since you're here..."

I'm pretty sure that nobody dislike's you, it's just that people are so set in their opinions that they know what they do like and they know what they don't like, so I guess they feel like talking about it really isn't going to change anything. Sometimes I feel like I'm forever having to defend the reason I Spuffy and why I can forgive Spike for what he did in Seeing Red and how Buffy can really love him/be in love with him in S7 like I believe she truly was.

But of course, I'm not going to make anyone else feel bad for asking someone else to explain why they do or don't like something. IDK, I just felt like what I said needed to be said, because it all boils down a choice. You either say what you're thinking or you chose not to, because you know you're not going to change your mind or anyone else's.

*hugs* You're alright. 🙂

Thanks. I just feel the goal of this thread was misunderstood. I don't want to make anyone like Spike or argue with them, I just want to understand why they don't like him. That's all.

And that is completely understandable, as I said in the pm. 🙂
 
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zobothehobo
Thanks. I just feel the goal of this thread was misunderstood. I don't want to make anyone like Spike or argue with them, I just want to understand why they don't like him. That's all.
I think I've got a pretty clear understanding of why some people hate Spike. He's selfish, arrogant, impulsive, annoying and many other bad things. I just feel that his good outweighs his bad. I know he is horribly flawed and that's just a part of why I am like him. Other people don't because of the bad traits I've listed above.

Well, I think so anyway.

Hey, I'm of this opinion too! 😀 He's not a nice guy all the time, and I think he is arrogant and impulsive and annoying at times. Heck, almost all the other characters on the show think this about Spike too. Especially Buffy! 😀 But for me (and I suspect for Buffy too; I am a Spuffy OTP shipper after all 😉) all that selfishness and arrogance and impulse is coupled with loyalty, heroism, and selflessness. Especially after the soul. The good outweighs the bad for me, as it is for most people and characters. Though obviously in Spike's case much more exaggerated. The guy's a vampire-turned-undead champion. 😛

So yeah, that's why I love him, but onto why some might dislike/hate him... Zoe, maybe this might help you understand? This isn't true of all people who don't like Spike, but it's one case: some people are turned off by Spike's attitude or behavior. (To be honest...I wasn't a huge fan of him when I first watched the show. [ETA: I mean like early Season 2, btw. I didn't mean through the whole series, lol.] Learned the errors of my ways though soon enough 😉)
And if you already aren't attracted to the guy very much and then you also don't like how he's used narratively, and then you're tired of seeing too much of him because as a consequence you feel your favorite characters aren't written well enough, then I think you'd hate him too. Substitute Spike in this case for a character you don't like very much, and, well...do you see how some people can hate him? 🙂 Cause like...for me, I'd probably hate him. If I weren't such a big fan, that is. 😀
 
W
WakingNightmare
You're so right. His flaws make him part of the Spiek package. I wouldn't want him any other way.
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zobothehobo
Spike's outlandish attitude and crazy behavior is kind of a lot of what I love aobut him! haha
Marisa agrees: You hate Carly I kind of love her lol. But yes I agree about this post.

I think one of the main reason's I hate Carly so much, is the fact that she's done some frakked up crap in her past and also is planning on doing some in her present now and yet she finds it completely okay to sit in judgement of someone else. Ugh! I just wanna snatch her hair out of her head, sometimes. lol.

This isn't true of all people who don't like Spike, but it's one case: some people are turned off by Spike's attitude or behavior.

And if you already aren't attracted to the guy very much and then you also don't like how he's used narratively, and then you're tired of seeing too much of him because as a consequence you feel your favorite characters aren't written well enough, then I think you'd hate him too.

There are parts of this, I kind of do and don't disagree with. I can understand not liking Spike based off his attitude or behavior, but I think the thing Zobo was trying to get at was more along the lines of "the why" some people dislike Spike. Not the, I dislike him because I dislike him and anyway why should I have explain myself variety, either.

But, honestly, I don't feel like that's a good enough reason to dislike a character and as I always try and stress, this is just my own personal opinion. I feel like there should be real honest to goodness reasons. Like, the character is despicable, the character is horribly written, the character lacks depth or is just a basic tool to further the plot along and therefore not really needed, etc.

Not just, I don't like the actor so therefore I'm not going to like the character, which means anytime he has extra screentime I'm going to deduct more points from him because it means he's taking up time that could be given to another favorite or well liked character. To me, that's a bit...IDK what's the word I'm looking for?!
 
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zobothehobo
is "shallow" what you're looking for? And I agree with all of this
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Marisa
Yeah she does but on that show there are so many horrible characters I almost just don't care sometimes LOL. Lately there all so judgmental and hypocrites.
But, honestly, I don't feel like that's a good enough reason to dislike a character and as I always try and stress, this is just my own personal opinion. I feel like there should be real honest to goodness reasons. Like, the character is despicable, the character is horribly written, the character lacks depth or is just a basic tool to further the plot along and therefore not really needed, etc.

Not just, I don't like the actor so therefore I'm not going to like the character, which means anytime he has extra screentime I'm going to deduct more points from him because it means he's taking up time that could be given to another favorite or well liked character. To me, that's a bit...IDK what's the word I'm looking for?!

That's kinda what I meant, lol. Apologies if I'm not too coherent right now, but I meant to say that maybe those people *do* find Spike despicable (for how he treated Buffy, for example), or horribly written (if they don't feel his character arc was good; reasons vary, of course, but maybe they felt it was forced or unnatural, for instance), or shallow (like, if they don't feel like he contributed positively to the story). I don't want to speak for Zo here, but to me, those seem like good enough answers. I obviously don't agree, but eh. What can you do? Most of the Spike haters who've posted here (hate is such a strong word, maybe "dislikers" is more accurate for most 😀) have stated reasons like this.
I think you have to draw a line for which answers are honest to goodness reasons and which aren't if we're going to go there. People hate for all sorts of reasons. Honest to goodness reasons, petty reasons, hurtful reasons, valid reasons- and I say that's fine. After all, we like who we like for all sorts of reasons too, right? I think there can be something problematic about requiring really good reasons for hating a character (not saying Zo was doing that, and I don't mean to single you out for it, but it seemed a little bit in your post that maybe you were suggesting that? 😱). At the end of the day, of course, we're talking different preferences, different strokes, and fundamentally different fans, right? :/
 
“I don't give a piss about atonement or destiny.” Spike, Just Rewards

I’m gonna write a lot because I think this is really interesting and it’s been a long time since I’ve put it in words so it might be rusty but I’m going to try for it. Go through the ‘motions with me:

I started watching Buffy at age 8 when “Reptile Boy” originally aired. I was in over my head with such a grown up show but I knew that I fell in love with the character. The character was really invested in Angel and thus was I, this forbidden romance. I rooted for them; two people who couldn’t be more right together yet contradict one another at the same time. It killed me when he left because I didn’t know what the show was going to do - Angel was such a huge part of the story! This is 2 fleshed out years of watching, waiting between hiatuses to see what was going to happen next.

So because of the changes season 4 was a growing pain for me as much as it was for the show. But it was still “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.” Sure, Spike was now in the mix but the main character was still the main character. Buffy moved on to Riley whom I like then Spike fell in love with Buffy. This guy was going from bad-ass, to joke, to pathetic, to love-sick puppy. But why did I care if he was in love with Buffy? Why was this going to be a storyline? To me it wasn’t needed to further Buffy but it furthered Spike, a guy who I had no idea why he was even in the show anymore. There was nothing else that character could do as a regular but fall in love with one of them; it was so obvious that I can’t believe it happened. By this point I was already of the opinion that he made a better villain than a chippy head so I slightly ignored him a little bit. It wasn’t so easy as time went on because the show was shifting focus onto him. (On rewatches, it’s less noticeable to me because I accept the show as it is now but at the original airings it hit me in the face every episode: “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” was becoming “Spike the Vampire.”) I was still watching for those special moments where Buffy would reunite with Angel because, as far as I was concerned, they were going to end up together. If they could be together, they would be (I stand by that no matter what.).

I can understand this now, and somewhat appreciate it, but when Buffy started having sex with Spike it was such an abomination to me. What the hell! She’s sleeping with the guy she hasn’t been able to stand for years! The anti-Angel. (In the show’s dynamic, the only person she really could turn to was Spike but for me the character was hijacking the show.) It was disgusting and even Buffy herself refers to it as such. So now the character started from bad-ass, to joke, to pathetic, to love-sick puppy and by this point he’s the stud that all the fan girls are creaming over. I felt like I was being forced to care about this character we were never meant to care about until he was thrust into the main credits. But guess what: I still didn’t care!

In season 7 I wanted to throttle the characters for even saying his name, and they said it often. I hated watching him be tortured without a shirt by The First because I felt they were really playing to all the girls who thought Spike was hot or sympathetic and this was a way to pull on the heartstrings. Again, I felt there was too much focus on him. But blondie-bear sells, clearly, cause he crossed over to Angel (dare I even get into that? Yeah, I will.) The only time I ever felt slightly impressed by him - aside from taking such good care of Dawn - was by what he said to Buffy in “Touched.” So yes, throughout the original run of the show I hated him. But by now he had graduated from stud to hero cause he wore a magic necklace.

AND THEN! “Angel.” Spike had no place on that show as it was, which I guess is why it had to change so drastically for season 5. Again, too much focus on him. Second billing in the credits? Ugh. I really hated that season and not only for this reason.

I don’t like Spike because I feel he took over my show. I feel he changed where the direction of the show all the time and I feel that the writer’s fed into the obsession of the girls who thought he was hot. The character has an interesting journey but I agree with Icarium (I think we all think this at points, too, even Spike fans): why didn’t they just stake him? Haha. Yes, he was harmless post-chip and yes, Buffy was gonna kill him once they thought it was removed, blah blah. I get it, but really, kill the nuisance. Or screw him, whichever comes first.

Spike and Angel comparisons are always going to happened because A) they’re old menace buddies, B) soulled duo, C) both boinked Buffy, D) both totally different hair. I like Angel more because I find him more compelling and more admirable than Spike. I posted that quote at the start of my post because I think it’s often forgotten. *Spike is more selfish than he’s given credit for.* His soul was for Buffy, not atonement. Him wanting Shanshu was about being with Buffy, not redemption for any sins. That’s not something I wanna to cheer for.

That being said, his fan base turns me off bigtime. “Spike’s a hero!” “Bangel was filler for Spuffy!” “ ‘Angel's lame. His hair grows straight up, and he's bloody stupid!’ LOL” “Spike’s just better.” “Spike’s hotter THUS better.” “Spike doesn‘t deserve Buffy.” “Angel was just a phase.” This doesn’t necessarily represent anyone on this board but this is the blinded-by-skinny-abs talk I’ve encountered. So yes, that plays into it too.

But I accept Spike. If I didn’t, I’d hate my TV show and I don’t want to hate it. I watched to understand why Buffy slept with him, why he was around, why he wasn’t staked because when these all first aired I couldn’t grasp any of this to save my life. My hatred for him has dissipated even, or maybe it numbed over. I still don’t like “Crush,” or “Lies My Parents Told Me” and “Why We Fight” is an abomination to everything ever done by Whedon but I can take his character in doses.

An interesting comparison to you 90’s kids out there: remember Might Morphin’ Power Rangers? Remember how rad the first 5 were? Remember them after the Green Ranger showed up? Yeah, neither does most of the world. They still only talk about Tommy - Jason who? EFF OFF. That is an example of how I feel about what Spike did to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." 🙂 Thank you’s.
 
Kana
Kana
Well explained
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goodbyetonight
You put how I feel into words perfectly. And I can't believe other girls find Spike attractive - he is just...not. At all.
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StarSlayer
While I don't agree with a lot, thanks for explaining your reasons as to why J :) I still don't get the fangirl thing though, lol!
brinkster130
brinkster130
Great post!
Taaroko
Taaroko
[No message]
I meant to say that maybe those people *do* find Spike despicable (for how he treated Buffy, for example)...

I think you have to draw a line for which answers are honest to goodness reasons and which aren't if we're going to go there. People hate for all sorts of reasons. Honest to goodness reasons, petty reasons, hurtful reasons, valid reasons- and I say that's fine. After all, we like who we like for all sorts of reasons too, right? I think there can be something problematic about requiring really good reasons for hating a character (not saying Zo was doing that, and I don't mean to single you out for it, but it seemed a little bit in your post that maybe you were suggesting that? 😱). At the end of the day, of course, we're talking different preferences, different strokes, and fundamentally different fans, right? :/

Okay, I'll buy that and offer up the fact that Buffy has been quite despicable (I really love that word a lot, lol) towards Spike as well taking S6 into account. They were quite despicable to each other. And okay, I'll stop there with that, before we open up another can of worms.

But, yes I do understand that people hate for all sorts of reasons. I was just simply saying that it makes more sense IMHO - and this is just me - if it's a reason that's more real like "the scene in Seeing Red" as opposed to just hating the character because a.) hating the character is easier the easier thing to do or b.) because you don't think James Marster's is sexy, which obviously has nothing at all to do with the character and more to do with the actor himself. lol. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm not trying to suggest that anyone can't like or dislike whatever character they want, at all. Or that their reasons for doing so aren't valid, because a lot of them are and I'll give them that they're pretty damn good ones as well even if I may not always agree with them. I will say that, the more shallow reasons or the refusal to actually say why you dislike the character and just say...I dislike end of story, are the ones that tend to frustrate me more than anything else.

So, in a way I do sort of agree with you and I don't, as well. lol. But, I understand exactly where you're coming from and I respect that. 🙂
 
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prophecygrrl
Whoo, agreeing and disagreeing! You and I are carrying on in the great tradition of fandom, lol! :D
I never thought I'd be defending Spike hate, LOL. 😀 Oh geez. Someone take the computer away from me.

@Zeppo: Dang, that's a long post! 😀
Hm, I never watched it live...reading your post, it occurred to me that maybe that might also be a factor in Spike hate? I feel like the fans who watched it live had to deal with a lot more drama from behind the scenes, or with the networks and hiatuses and stuff, plus the fact that fandom reaction was happening as the show was airing, so that may have influenced the show, I guess. I can understand resenting some plotlines or character arcs if you factored in external factors and fan frustration, too? Just a thought though, not saying that you necessarily felt that way because of this.
 
@Zeppo: Dang, that's a long post! 😀
Hm, I never watched it live...reading your post, it occurred to me that maybe that might also be a factor in Spike hate? I feel like the fans who watched it live had to deal with a lot more drama from behind the scenes, or with the networks and hiatuses and stuff, plus the fact that fandom reaction was happening as the show was airing, so that may have influenced the show, I guess. I can understand resenting some plotlines or character arcs if you factored in external factors and fan frustration, too? Just a thought though, not saying that you necessarily felt that way because of this.

What I find is that those who didn't watch from the original airings of the ealier episodes are more for Spike/Spuffy. Fangirl hype (that's what I call it, hope no one is offended but I think evering understands what I mean by those words) doesn't help me in liking a character but it didn't ignite anything that wasn't already there for me.

I think it might have to do with watching Buffy season 2 as it aired not knowing what would happen now that Angel is dead, not knowing he'd get a spin-off, not knowing there'd be another vampire for Buffy to engage with. Watching the show in DVD you know there are 7 seasons with a blonde guy on the cover whom most people, even if you aren't a fan, recognize as Spike the vampire. This fandom has given me the opinion that watching a show as it airs is a completely different one than watching it on DVD with no interruptions or suspense.
 
Forgive me because this is the only part of the fandom I've ever been in... do a lot of Spike fans in the fandom only like Spike because James is hot? That's a shallow obnoxious reason to like Spike IMO.
 
X
xaphania
I don't think this is how it is. But I think this is the way it's perceived, and it annoys me so much. It undermines us, you know? That's one thing that infuriates me.
Kana
Kana
yeah but in all fairness I know a lot people who only like Angel for that reason
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StarSlayer
Not all all. I mentioned that in another post in this thread :)
A
A Flawed Fashion
Yes. But there are always a few shallow ones in fandoms. It doesn't mean their aren't legit fans.
I feel like the fans who watched it live had to deal with a lot more drama from behind the scenes, or with the networks and hiatuses and stuff, plus the fact that fandom reaction was happening as the show was airing, so that may have influenced the show, I guess.

Whoo, agreeing and disagreeing! You and I are carrying on in the great tradition of fandom, lol!

This could not be more a more truer statement. (Oh lord, my English is horrible.)

There was A LOT of drama that went on from the behind the scenes. And if I'm honest, I guess I could say that a small part of the reason why I get so frustrated at the idea of B/A is because of the way I've seen some of the fans act about them. I hate ship wars, but I don't mind having discussions on reasons why people don't like a particular ship or why they prefer one over the other. I just don't like it, when they use double standards.

And so, I feel like there are always double standards when we're talking in terms of Angel vs Spike vs Bangle vs Spuffy and then when you throw Cordy/Angel (because I cannot make myself say Cangle...oi!) it becomes something else entirely. So, having said all of that, I can understand why some would feel like parts of the fandom is factoring into why they don't like a specific character or ship - even though I also feel like like it shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the character or ship in general and more to do with the way a certain fan or group of fans feel towards it/them.

OMG! I really need to go to bed, my head is swimming and I don't feel like I'm making any sense. lol. Step up, if you you can sort my head, please. lol.

Passing that great fandom toch on! 😉

Zeppo: What I find is that those who didn't watch from the original airings of the ealier episodes are more for Spike/Spuffy. Fangirl hype (that's what I call it, hope no one is offended but I think evering understands what I mean by those words) doesn't help me in liking a character but it didn't ignite anything that wasn't already there for me.

I can see how it might be that way for some, but I can assure you that I've watched this show from the original airing of the pilot until the very end - both Buffy and Angel - and I have friends and family who didn't and watched it by borrowing my dvd's or actually purchasing their own and they made their decision to like Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike based off watching the episodes themselves and not just because of the "fangirl hype."
 
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