Why the Xander hate?

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zobothehobo said:
I don't think it's that he has the guts to say what everyone's thinking very bluntly. I think he has the balls to be vocal about the judgement he makes. We all make judgement even when we have no right to... but you don't voice them... ESPECIALLY if you have no right to even make this judgement.
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But that exactly describes Spike, Anya and Cordelia. They always judge the Scoobies and their partners and speak rudely to them and they don't have the right to make those judgements.

Why is it fine for Spike to call the Scoobies on their crap but not Xander? When Xander judges Spike he's an ass but when Spike judges Xander then he's right and Xander deserves it. I personally don't get it.
 
Is there any character who doen'ts judge others? Even Buffy, even Willow, Giles, everyone really. It's not just Spike or Anya or Cordelia. It's not just characters. Every person judges.
 
Chosen Enemy said:
Is there any character who doen'ts judge others? Even Buffy, even Willow, Giles, everyone really. It's not just Spike or Anya or Cordelia. It's not just characters. Every person judges.
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That's my point. It's not something specific to Xander. Most of the characters, if not all, have voiced their opinions when it's their right/business or not.
 
sosa lola said:
That's my point. It's not something specific to Xander. Most of the characters, if not all, have voiced their opinions when it's their right/business or not.
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Exactly.
I think the Xander bashing over it, might be because he's the friend. He's not the ex-demon who only likes Xander, not Cordelia who didn't really think of herself as a Scooby Gang member. Not Spike who's the enemy (for a while). They don't pretend to be friends. Xander is a friend, a very close one. And he bashes his friends. I think that's where it comes from. It's not about "who has the right to judge", it's more of two sides of the conflict, friends and not friends.
 
Chosen Enemy said:
Exactly.
I think the Xander bashing over it, might be because he's the friend. He's not the ex-demon who only likes Xander, not Cordelia who didn't really think of herself as a Scooby Gang member. Not Spike who's the enemy (for a while). They don't pretend to be friends. Xander is a friend, a very close one. And he bashes his friends. I think that's where it comes from. It's not about "who has the right to judge", it's more of two sides of the conflict, friends and not friends.
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I think you have a point, but honestly, as their friend I think Xander has more right to voice his opinion than Anya and Cordelia who don't consider themselves Buffy and Willow's friends or Spike who doesn't consider himself anyone's friend. They're the ones who have no right to judge.

In real life, I don't really like when a point is stated bluntly. I believe one has a right to voice their opinion and be honest, but at least does it with manners. Xander, Spike, Cordelia and Anya are too rude when they state their opinions and I don't like that. I like the way Buffy, Willow and Giles speak their mind, which is more polite and effective.
 
The other characters no when to shut up though... even Spike knows when to shut up. Even Anya does. And I suspect Xander knows, he just doesn't care. I feel he crosses the line with his judgments more than once and that bothers me.
 
sosa lola said:
I think you have a point, but honestly, as their friend I think Xander has more right to voice his opinion than Anya and Cordelia who don't consider themselves Buffy and Willow's friends or Spike who doesn't consider himself anyone's friend. They're the ones who have no right to judge.

In real life, I don't really like when a point is stated bluntly. I believe one has a right to voice their opinion and be honest, but at least does it with manners. Xander, Spike, Cordelia and Anya are too rude when they state their opinions and I don't like that. I like the way Buffy, Willow and Giles speak their mind, which is more polite and effective.
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For me, it really depends on the force of the judgement. Like you said, the blunt comments. If it's for their own good, speaking up is good, sure. But not everyone can seperate judgement to speaking your opinion. Anya has no idea when she hurts people. Cordelia, well it's part of her nature. She's aware but doesn't care. Spike, well, evil. Neither of them says the comments to help the other. So I think that's the difference. Xander IS trying to help USUALLY. But he does it bluntly. And I think he knows that. He can't always keep it in, that's where he becomes judgemental.
 
zobothehobo said:
The other characters no when to shut up though... even Spike knows when to shut up. Even Anya does. And I suspect Xander knows, he just doesn't care. I feel he crosses the line with his judgments more than once and that bothers me.
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Xander also knows when to shut up. There were so many incidents when he keeps his thoughts to himself, on top of my head Beneath You, Buffy had hidden Spike coming back from Xander and Dawn, Dawn voiced her anger but Xander kept quiet even though he's upset by it. And when he's worried about Buffy, he spoke in hushed tones to her about Spike's attempted rape and didn't shout it out loud.


Chosen Enemy said:
Anya has no idea when she hurts people. Cordelia, well it's part of her nature. She's aware but doesn't care. Spike, well, evil. Neither of them says the comments to help the other. So I think that's the difference. Xander IS trying to help USUALLY. But he does it bluntly. And I think he knows that. He can't always keep it in, that's where he becomes judgemental.
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I don't buy these excuses to be honest. Anya is old enough to know that she's hurting people with what she says, it's known that she doesn't care about anyone who isn't Xander, that's why she doesn't care when she hurts them. Cordelia and Spike are obviously going for the hurt.

And I don't think Xander is trying to help when he's blunt. Usually he's that way because he's hurt and then starts to lash out, which is wrong, but if it's okay for Cordelia to be blunt because it's who she is, then it should be okay for Xander to lash out rudely because that's who he is and considering his home life it's understandable. We've known that Xander is sarcastic and mocks others, including his friends, since episode one, it's who he is.

But I don't agree with their behavior, all four of them.
 
sosa lola said:
Xander also knows when to shut up. There were so many incidents when he keeps his thoughts to himself, on top of my head Beneath You, Buffy had hidden Spike coming back from Xander and Dawn, Dawn voiced her anger but Xander kept quiet even though he's upset by it. And when he's worried about Buffy, he spoke in hushed tones to her about Spike's attempted rape and didn't shout it out loud.




I don't buy these excuses to be honest. Anya is old enough to know that she's hurting people with what she says, it's known that she doesn't care about anyone who isn't Xander, that's why she doesn't care when she hurts them. Cordelia and Spike are obviously going for the hurt.

And I don't think Xander is trying to help when he's blunt. Usually he's that way because he's hurt and then starts to lash out, which is wrong, but if it's okay for Cordelia to be blunt because it's who she is, then it should be okay for Xander to lash out rudely because that's who he is and considering his home life it's understandable. We've known that Xander is sarcastic and mocks others, including his friends, since episode one, it's who he is.

But I don't agree with their behavior, all four of them.
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season 3 through 5 at least, Anya did not know she hurt people. She became human in season 3, not that long time to understand humans' world. And she didn't change much since then. Xander kept correcting her, because she DIDN'T know how to act around people. She might not care, but she also didn't know.

What I meant about Xander being blunt, is not that he's blunt when he helps, but only when he's judgmental it's blunt. When he tries to help, he speaks his mind, that's fine. But sometimes he judges and that's where he's blunt.
 
Chosen Enemy said:
What I meant about Xander being blunt, is not that he's blunt when he helps, but only when he's judgmental it's blunt. When he tries to help, he speaks his mind, that's fine. But sometimes he judges and that's where he's blunt.
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I think everybody is blunt when they judge. Their words and the way they speak them come out so bluntly. I don't like it when Xander lashes out or is judgmental, and I always demand they'd sign him in an anger mangement class 😀 I do think his background has something to do with how he behaves, he lives in a house where you have to shout to get heard, where his role models scream at each other and insult one another. That ought to affect him, he knew that in Hell's Bells, which was why he didn't marry Anya.
 
Chosen Enemy
Chosen Enemy
"he didn't marry Anya", I'm going to open a thread for that. And I agree with you about Xander
nightshade
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sosa lola said:
Xander also knows when to shut up. There were so many incidents when he keeps his thoughts to himself, on top of my head Beneath You, Buffy had hidden Spike coming back from Xander and Dawn, Dawn voiced her anger but Xander kept quiet even though he's upset by it. And when he's worried about Buffy, he spoke in hushed tones to her about Spike's attempted rape and didn't shout it out loud.
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Did we watch the same episode? Or maybe I need to go back and rewatch it, but I seem to remember Xander being vocal about his feelings.

And I don't think Xander is trying to help when he's blunt. Usually he's that way because he's hurt and then starts to lash out, which is wrong,
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And here's another reason his blunt judgements are different from the other characters'. Xander says things to hurt.
 
Ok, I was going to write this humongous, long schpeal about why Xander doesn't suck but Sosa Lola and Chosen Enemy pretty much already said everything I was going to say. LOL

You know what cracks me up about Xander haters though? Xander haters act like they themselves have never ever been guilty of judging someone or blurting something out in a moment of passion or anger. It is human nature to say or do things in the heat of the moment we may regret later. This is why I love Xander. He represents this element of us. He says the things that everyone is thinking, albeit in ways that everyone may not like, but guess what? Like it or not, we' re all guilty of doing things we shouldn't do, and so is he. Nobody is perfect; we all do stupid stuff and say stupid things to people we love because we care about them and don't want to see them get hurt, or because we're mad at them for something.

Why is Xander exempt from forgiveness from this when Cordelia isn't? Why are Spike and Anya forgiven and their jokes laughed off, when they've murdered and killed people and said and done horrible things to people, yet Xander's worst crimes are his words?

My theory is that people see things in Xander that they don't want to see within themselves. It's easier to hate or dislike a fictional character for something than to admit something within themselves that they need to change or work on.
 
nightshade
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OhWow
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No doubt par of what I dislike about Xander is that I see myself in him in a way I don't like. I'll freely and gladly admit that.
 
zobothehobo said:
Did we watch the same episode? Or maybe I need to go back and rewatch it, but I seem to remember Xander being vocal about his feelings.
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Dawn was vocal. Xander was very calm and reserved. He'd handled the situation very maturely. I think you're remembering Selfless when he lashed out because Buffy was going to kill Anya or Him when he wasn't thrilled with Spike staying at his apartment.

zobothehobo said:
Xander says things to hurt.
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Not all the times. Usually he says things in reaction to being hurt. Xander usually lashes out when he's hurting.
 
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