Why Twillow And Not Batsu?

[MinwaraYana]

Because Batsu is random. Okay, not so random. But Buffy was lonely and she kinda took advantage of Satsu's feelings towards her. There's no love from Buffy, except as friends. Tillow is full of love.

 

[Kean]

See, I just don't see it as anything more than the bond between two warriors. Like Buffy had with Kendra. Faith is a whole different story, lol.

Yes, Buffy was honest about what she did or didn't want, but to me, the whole concept of them sleeping together felt really pushed and forced - not natural like Willow and Tara.

Willow and Tara's relationship built up over time. They started as friends, became closer until they realized there was something more between them. Which is why I don't think it was experimenting on Willow's part. If it was, she would have jumped right into bed with Tara. That, and after Tara, Willow considered herself to be gay. If it was experimenting, she would at least refer to herself as bi.

Buffy and Satsu's relationship started out as teacher and student, leader and follower, which to me is just unhealthy and sort of sets Satsu up for a world of hurt. Even if Buffy was honest about her feelings from the start, Satsu was still affected enough that she chose to stay behind in Japan to put some distance between them in order for her to get over Buffy. Whereas Buffy wasn't affected at all and simply reverted back to thinking of Satsu as nothing more than a friend/ally.

Yeah, you're right. It was totally inappropriate for Buffy to sleep with Satsu. This was actually my initial reaction, when it originally happened.

Despite that I still like what they had and wouldn't be against them exploring their relationship more. It won't happen, of course. But I admit, I don't hate the idea. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

See, I just don't see it as anything more than the bond between two warriors.


Buffy and Satsu's relationship started out as teacher and student, leader and follower, which to me is just unhealthy and sort of sets Satsu up for a world of hurt.

I hadn't thought about until you mentioned this, but in a lot of warrior cultures, such as the Spartans and the samurai, it wasn't that uncommon for the bond between teacher/mentor and student to include them being lovers, so what our Western society might see as wrong because Buffy was Satsu's teacher and leader, Satsu, with her Japanese heritage, might have seen as quite natural. (That's assuming, of course, that Satsu actually honors her ancestral culture. We've never seen any evidence to the fact, positive or negative)

 

[mayfever]

I hadn't thought about until you mentioned this, but in a lot of warrior cultures, such as the Spartans and the samurai, it wasn't that uncommon for the bond between teacher/mentor and student to include them being lovers, so what our Western society might see as wrong because Buffy was Satsu's teacher and leader, Satsu, with her Japanese heritage, might have seen as quite natural. (That's assuming, of course, that Satsu actually honors her ancestral culture. We've never seen any evidence to the fact, positive or negative)

gah, stupid keyboard. I wanted to say "I hadn't thought about it that way, but it does make sense if you look at it like that."

 

[Angelic Slayer]

Well the reason for my not supporting Batsu has nothing to do with Sastsu being a girl, and everything to do with Satsu being someone other than Angel :silly: As much as Tara and Willow were perfect for each other, I think the same is true og Bangel.... and I will accept no substitutions! 😉

But to compare the two ships all the same: when Willow and Oz ended in S4 I wasn't devistated, if anything I was a little relieved. The two characters were both young and in their first real relationship, and Willow especially matured/changed leaps and bounds in the time they dated. So by the time Season 4 rolled around I felt like they were starting to have very little in common, and honestly I wasn't seeing any chemistry between the two of them anymore. Then they broke up, and a few episodes later here's this wonderfully perfect girl for Willow-- so they became my new (second) favourite ship. Tara was shy like Oz (but more talktive and friendly), she and Willow had lots of common interests, on-screen chemistry... I felt like Twillow offered everything that had been lacking in Willow/Oz's relationship and I think if Warren hadn't happened the two could have had a real shot at a lifelong happiness together.

Now let's flip the scales to Batsu. Don't get me wrong, I admire how hopelessly in love Satsu is with Buffy. It added a fun new relationship dynamic that we hadn't seen in the Buffyverse yet, and I *loved* watching Buffy try to deal with the idea of a female lover. It was a refreshingly light-hearted romance for our heroine and Joss wrote it wonderfully. The two of them have the perfect love story in some ways: Satsu falls head over heels for the absoloutely wrong girl, and after some hesitation Buffy finds love and joy in a young slayer.... the only thing is I don't think Buffy ever fell in love back. Regardless of Satsu's gender, Buffy had been feeling lonely and she just happened to be avalible. We saw it in S6, Buffy sleeping with someone who has feelings for her to fill a void in her life (even when she didn't feel the same way). I don't think they realistically had the potential for a long-term romance and their "love story" is more about unrequited feelings than anything.

Again, not to mention that as far as I'm concerned Buffy is still head over heels for Angel and meant to end up his better-half again some day. So it's tough for me to accept Buffy's one-night stand with Satsu to be as worthwhile as ship compared to Bangel... or Twillow for that matter. I don't think she was the right person for Buffy and I don't think they could have developed into a committed relationship in the end. Whereas with Willow, I don't think you could find a better partner than Tara.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

So it's tough for me to accept Buffy's one-night stand with Satsu...

Hey, now. It was a two-night stand, thank you very much. 🙄

It was actually them both calling it one of the best nights of their lives, and then going back for another tryst in Tokyo, that really made me fall in love with Batsu. Even after the initial horniness and desperation wore off, there was still something there.

I think if Buffy were to let it happen, she'd be very happy in a relationship with Satsu. (Until Joss brought the hammer down, of course.)

 

[Taake]

I guess I never really took the Batsu thing very seriously. As have been mentioned to it just seemed like Buffy felt lonely, had an itch and made sure to get it scratched, making the best of the situation.

It never even occurred to me to compare it to Tillow. I think the relationships are beyond different because well Tillow was a relationship in my eyes. Batsu was some stress-relief. It was a cute story but not much more than that.

 

[Litheran]

I thought Batsu was horrible to the point of intentional negligence. Buffy reverted to her season six behavior by using someone's affection to satisfy her own needs; nothing in the story led me to believe that Buffy was exploring her sexuality. It came off that Buffy had a super intense slay; and needed someone to help release her steam. It was a total let down after how well they handled the genesis of Twillow. When I read the comic where they hook up my first thought was; if they want someone to have a lesbian experience; why not Dawn?

From Buffy's initial reaction to Twillow in season four it's not hard to surmise that she was wiggy over finding out Willow had traded teams. Dawn on the other hand had two positive gay role models living with and helping to raise her. You would think that would make her more inclined to be comfortable questioning her sexual identity.

In short; Batsu appeared to me like putting Buffy in a situation that would sell comics; not putting her in a situation that would make her grow as a character. The scene where everyone barges in is definitely in my top five for season eight though.

Also, Batsu doesn't have a cool mascot like Miss Kitty Fantastico. 😛

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Batsu was, and still is, my favorite thing about season 8.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Willow and Tara's relationship built up over time. They started as friends, became closer until they realized there was something more between them. Which is why I don't think it was experimenting on Willow's part. If it was, she would have jumped right into bed with Tara. That, and after Tara, Willow considered herself to be gay. If it was experimenting, she would at least refer to herself as bi.

I don't think you meant it this way, but this seemed kind of offensive to me. If she was experimenting she would've come out straight not bisexual. She could've been bisexual even if it wasn't an experiment and it was something serious.

As for Batsu, this is an experiment but Buffy is still straight. The only problem I have with Batsu is that you know if Spike or Angel showed up, Satsu would get left behind and Buffy wouldn't have the same kind of conflict Willow had in "New Moon Rising". Buffy would be all about Angel or Spike instantaneously instead of wondering who she cared for more, Angel/Spike or Satsu.

 

[Angelic Slayer]

Hey, now. It was a two-night stand, thank you very much. 🙄

It was actually them both calling it one of the best nights of their lives, and then going back for another tryst in Tokyo, that really made me fall in love with Batsu. Even after the initial horniness and desperation wore off, there was still something there.

I think if Buffy were to let it happen, she'd be very happy in a relationship with Satsu. (Until Joss brought the hammer down, of course.)

They got together again in Tokyo? I thought I had read all those issues but apparently I'm
missing one! :silly: My mistake, I take back my one-night stand comment...."it's tough for me to accept Batsu's brief relationship (despite how passionate and perhaps meaningful as those nights were to them) as a substitute for the relationship we've had established between Buffy and Angel"
.

Again, I do think that their relationship was a great part of S8 to watch and all-in-all I'm very glad that we saw the possibility explored. I'm not convinced enough to ship them necessarily, but it was nice to see Buffy stray from her usual pattern of tall, strong and dark men and I *adore* Satsu's character. Still if we're comparing Buffyverse same-sex couples, there's no beating Twillow in my books. 🙂

 

[TheVoid68]

I agree with all the points already made. Especially the one about Satsu not being Faith. This isn't me whining about my ship not happening, I'm aware that it's very unlikely that Fuffy will ever happen. But if the writers wanted Buffy to experiment with her sexuality with a fellow slayer, and they already have a fellow slayer with a long, rich history with Buffy (which would lead to great drama after their hypothetical one-night stand), a large amount of tension and subtext already established between them, who could be very easily interpreted as having been in love with Buffy since season three - why bother to introduce a new character when an existing one fills the role much better? Imagine if in Season Six, Buffy had wanted to "feel something", but instead of sleeping with Spike, the writers introduced a brand-new blond, soulless vampire character, who Buffy then started sleeping with. It wouldn't have just been a slap in the face to the Spuffy fans, it would've been straight-up bad writing.

 

[Icarium]

Buffy experimenting with Faith would have been ridiculous. Can't you give the poor woman at least somebody important to hate, instead of sleep with? Wasn't Spuffy horrible enough for you, people? 🙂

Imagine if in Season Six, Buffy had wanted to "feel something", but instead of sleeping with Spike, the writers introduced a brand-new blond, soulless vampire character, who Buffy then started sleeping with. It wouldn't have just been a slap in the face to the Spuffy fans, it would've been straight-up bad writing.

Bad comparison. Buffy has a myriad reasons to dislike Faith and zero reasons to dislike Satsu. Another soulless vampire would have been pretty much just as ridiculous choice to sleep with in S6 as Spike was.