Why was the Scooby Gang so scared?
- Thread starter Joshua
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white avenger
white avenger
The battle in the vineyard was the first time that the Scoobies had experienced the kind of beating that Caleb gave them. Not only did he slap their three strongest fighters around like they were amateurs,then badly injured several Potentials and killed at least more. On top of that, for the very first time, one of the inner circle was permanently maimed. I'm in no way saying that I agree with what they did, because I most certainly DO NOT, but I can at least see how it could have happened.
Robb Stark
King in the North
Except, you know, she hadn't. Ultimately they did need to back in as the Slayer sychte was hidden in the vineyard and turned out to be one of the keys to defeating The First. Guess that was pretty important.
And the Potentials hadn't lost touch with reality? They immediately throw Buffy aside in favor of Faith, a killer with a long history of proving that she shouldn't have responsibility over anything, who then leads them straight into a trap which results in a massive explosion.
Ya, great decision there.
Old Master 3.0
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Yes, she had. Just because the writers helped her by making The First the dumbest villain in the history of the universe and Buffy's hunches turned out to be correct because the plot said so doesn't mean she didn't behave like a lunatic in Empty Places. "Caleb is protecting something important in the vineyard - you know the place that I wouldn't know anything about if Caleb himself hadn't deliberately lured me there" is one of the weirdest arguments i have ever heard. It only proved correct because Caleb was too dumb to live but Buffy didn't know that at the time.
Picking Faith for a leader was stupid, yes, but the Scoobies (unlike Buffy apparently, judging by her weird logic) hadn't read the next episode script, so her failing wasn't a certainty at the time.
V
Vamp Jenny
Guest
Because they were scared. Caleb had just seriously injured(sp??) Xander, many potentials were already dead because of the First and its minions, the potentials were not used to war, etc.
Even Kennedy who was supposed to be the most trained potential was completely stunned to see how a real battlefield was. They were not ready for a big fight and Caleb was a very strong first opponent.
As for the Scooby-Gang well they weren't used to see Buffy in war mode. She understood way before them she had to act without putting her emotions first like she was used to (though I think Spike found a good way to get under that shell😉). No matter what everyone thinks about the First, it was still the biggest "monster" Buffy ever had to fight. She was ready to be a leader for the war, they just weren't ready to follow her as soldier because they were used to be her friends/family.
Even Kennedy who was supposed to be the most trained potential was completely stunned to see how a real battlefield was. They were not ready for a big fight and Caleb was a very strong first opponent.
As for the Scooby-Gang well they weren't used to see Buffy in war mode. She understood way before them she had to act without putting her emotions first like she was used to (though I think Spike found a good way to get under that shell😉). No matter what everyone thinks about the First, it was still the biggest "monster" Buffy ever had to fight. She was ready to be a leader for the war, they just weren't ready to follow her as soldier because they were used to be her friends/family.
Buffy was the leader for so many years. Thing went wrong but she fixed it. Then suddenly nothing went well. Many people around, fear, disrespect and other things made everybody in Buffy's house crazzy. The others didn't saw any succes in Buffy stragedy, they only saw thing go worse and worse. So they did what happended so often in history: They chose a new leader. The old one had to leave.
EVIL UU
Scooby
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I don't think they were scared. I think that they were mostly just, oh you know, sane.
Ever heard of The Children's crusade? Buffy's doing the same thing, she wants to send a group of children, that shouldn't even fight in the first place because they are children with no skills, no experience and no supernatural powers whatsoever for ****'s sake, on faith alone, against an enemy she herself cannot defeat. On the top of that, she tried it before and they got their asses kicked.
She's out of her mind, she's the fake blond Aguirre.
And how does that make Buffy less insane? Seriously.
Ever heard of The Children's crusade? Buffy's doing the same thing, she wants to send a group of children, that shouldn't even fight in the first place because they are children with no skills, no experience and no supernatural powers whatsoever for ****'s sake, on faith alone, against an enemy she herself cannot defeat. On the top of that, she tried it before and they got their asses kicked.
She's out of her mind, she's the fake blond Aguirre.
And how does that make Buffy less insane? Seriously.
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Robb Stark
King in the North
I don't think Caleb led Buffy there with the intent of letting her get away. The whole theme of "Dirty Girls" and Caleb was that he saw women as totally sub-human, and not even close to his level of intelligence. He was beyond over confident. He also showed many times that he enjoyed screwing with his victims. He liked playing with them. We saw that when he got The First to re-enact his old victims.
I honestly don't think that Caleb thought that Buffy would have figured the scythe out. He draws Buffy into that trap fully expecting to kill her. He even says to The First that Buffy will come simply because she's a curious little girl. I think he just really, really underestimated Buffy.
And Buffy did know that Caleb had something powerful. She didn't just guess that. Spike found that all out and told her. I'm not saying that it's the best writing ever, but no one else listened to Spike at all and they fell straight into an even worse trap. I mean, it's fine if you don't like the plot line, but she was right. Spike was right.
Yet, doesn't even bother to really give chase and later refuses to finish her off after giving her a beating in the school. He is an idiot, plain and simple. He could have lured her to any other house. He could have killed her.
More importantly, Buffy had no reason to believe the guy was so monumentally dumb. So her actions, which were based on the assumption that he was hiding something in the very place where he ambushed her are the actions of a lunatic who only got lucky through writer fiat.
After Empty Places. So we got back to my assertion that Buffy's actions make sense only if she read the scripts for the next episodes. And in any event she only succeeded because she went alone, if they had all gone, there woudl have been another slaughter, so no she wasn't right even with the benefit of those inexplicable prophetic abilities.
Black Eye Guy
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Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
I think it was pretty clear that Caleb was just toying with them, he wasn't allowed to kill Buffy, she had be be killed last. He could have crushed them, he totally let them get away.
I also don't think it matters that Buffy was right, how she was going about it was so wrong. That is so clear, she is frantically running around bringing untrained potentials into a incredibly dangerous place, getting people killed. Once she calms down and takes a breath, and it's pointed out she's cicrling on the edge of crazy she gets back to the point she should have been, she goes in and gets the scythe by herself.