Why was there more experimentation with Buffy?

[Black Eye Guy]

I was just wondering if anyone had any theories on this, there was a lot more experimentation with direction when it came to BtVS over Angel.

Episodes like Hush(Silent), The Body(No Music) and OMWF(Musical), would you have wanted to see an episode of Angel pushing boundaries like that?

Do you think it would have worked, as it did on Buffy?

Why do you think Joss chose to try them out on BtVS over Angel?

 

[Kean]

I think it's because Joss was more involved on Buffy. David Greenwalt was the showrunner on Angel. ATS was really Greenwalt's baby. I always feel like Buffy was Joss' vision and Angel was Greenwalt's (until he left).

 

[Buffy Summers]

Well, we do have Smile Time & Spin the Bottle 🙂

I just feel like for the most part Angel became a much darker more serious show, and those kind of episodes feel more out of place than on Buffy for some reason.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I think it's because Joss was more involved on Buffy. David Greenwalt was the showrunner on Angel. ATS was really Greenwalt's baby. I always feel like Buffy was Joss' vision and Angel was Greenwalt's (until he left).

Yeah true, I always forget about Greenwalt head honcho.

Well, we do have Smile Time & Spin the Bottle 🙂

I just feel like for the most part Angel became a much darker more serious show, and those kind of episodes feel more out of place than on Buffy for some reason.

Yeah I immediately though of Spin the Bottle, which is actually one of my favorite Angel episodes.

I agree it was much darker, do you think an episode like Hush would have worked on Angel?

I'm don't think the musical would have worked on Angel, although they had a good few singing scenes, it worked because it was in short bursts.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Yeah I can't imagine a musical episode on Angel lol. Angel was just...more formal? Or maybe it felt like the fanbase of Buffy was more accepting of episodes that went outside the box? I think Angel spent it's run trying to make it as it's own show, so was less likely to take risks maybe?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

There may also be an element of self-preservation in there. Joss would not like to be known as the guy who has a musical episode in every one of his shows. Otherwise, we would be waiting for one in Firefly and Dollhouse.

But I would like to have seen Buffy and Faith Smile Time puppets. It could have been an artifact of an intermediate stage of recovery from the identity-switching device left by the Mayor. They could battle it out with each other, stuffing flying everywhere...

 

[Robb Stark]

Echoing what others have said a bit, I think it's because of the overall tone of the series was different on Angel, particularly early on. It was supposed to be grittier and harder. Angel had a lot of comedy, don't get me wrong, but until S5 when Spike joined the show it wasn't often outward jokes like we saw from Xander on BTVS. "Hush", "Bewitched..." and "Band Candy" were all outstanding episodes in large part because of the humor that they brought. Especially early on, that would have clashed on Angel.

However, we did have some. "Spin the Bottle", "Smile Time" and episode in either S1 or S2 when all the LAPD officers get in touch with their feelings after Kate is sequestered to anger management classes.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

What I originally meant was a story that affected the production of the episode, like how Hush's story was the gentlemen stealing the towns voices, making the episode a silent episode.
And I guess SmileTime actually is one of those, since the actor was replaced by a puppet. The other wouldn't have had an effect on the episode from the viewers perspective.


I'll give you an example, like I would have loved a Black and White episode of Angel, a really Noir-esque detective story kinda feeling epsiode.

Crappy example, but just say that demon from Normal Again, effects Angel with the crazy virus, and he imagines another world where he's a human running a LA Detective Agency.
...I think that'd have been a cool episode actually, I've love to see a Noir Angel....
But what I really mean is the viewer would have a Black and White episode of Angel. I think there are ways that experimentation could have been used in Angel that still matched the tone.

 

[Lyri]

I personally think it was because BtVS in general was Joss' experiment. It was the first time he'd been in charge of his own TV show, his character that he created was his to mold and play with and do what he wanted with and he had all of these ideas and finally something to use them for.

So, I think he used BtVS as his guinea pig, trying out anything and everything he could think of. And, yes, they worked, each and every time, but I think they only worked because Joss was willing to go there and stretch those boundaries.

And like [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] said, Angel wasn't really Joss' show, which is why those 'experimental' episodes don't happen until later in the show's run, because Greenwalt wasn't really as experimental as Joss was, even when it had already been established by that point that the writers were able to pull it off.

 

[tec]

Also the town of Sunnydale its self lent its self to doing more outlandish things.

But as far as technical stuff Joss wanted to push what he could do witch lead to more directing diversaty he got to break away fron the one and two off shots and do some good steady cam and long takes also to to expreament on how shots worked one of my fav exsamples is when Dark Willow transports Dawn and Buffy from Racks to the Magic Box thats is a seemlessly cool effect.

A lot of time the constrants help directors and the production crew get creative. like for exsample a lot of shots where filmed in a warehouse witch dint have a high enough celling so the art department used it as part of acctual sets like Spikes place in S2

I think they did a tremendus job of makeing Buffy as Cinematic as possable with what little they had to work with. Some of the fashion on S1 may be dated but most of the shots and feel of S1 holds up quite well

 

[SlayerFest]

What I originally meant was a story that affected the production of the episode, like how Hush's story was the gentlemen stealing the towns voices, making the episode a silent episode.
And I guess SmileTime actually is one of those, since the actor was replaced by a puppet. The other wouldn't have had an effect on the episode from the viewers perspective.


I'll give you an example, like I would have loved a Black and White episode of Angel, a really Noir-esque detective story kinda feeling epsiode.

Crappy example, but just say that demon from Normal Again, effects Angel with the crazy virus, and he imagines another world where he's a human running a LA Detective Agency.
...I think that'd have been a cool episode actually, I've love to see a Noir Angel....
But what I really mean is the viewer would have a Black and White episode of Angel. I think there are ways that experimentation could have been used in Angel that still matched the tone.

I see what you're saying and that's part of the reason why I love Buffy so much more than Angel. It was more innovative and artistic in my opinion.