Why wasn't Buffy paid?

[famicommander]

The Shadowmen chose the First Slayer, but the Council has nothing to do with how they're chosen, regardless of when they're located.

How do we know Kendra's case was the norm? Wouldn't that contradict what we saw in season 7?

I didn't say the Shadowmen choose the Slayers, I said that they were the ones who decided it would always be a teenage girl and the Watchers as their successors began essentially abducting potentials to brainwash them.

It doesn't contradict season 7 at all. All the girls we saw getting hunted down by Bringers in the beginning of the season were the ones that were easiest to find -- the ones that had been living with their Watchers. Most of the ones who survived were the ones like Buffy, who didn't grow up knowing about the Slayer lore. Kennedy seemed to be the exception, having had some degree of training prior to being picked up by Giles.

And when Buffy meets Merrick for the first time he tells her that she should have been identified and prepared for her duties before she was called, but there were complications which prevented it. That's why Merrick has to give her a crash-course in training, and why he ultimately sacrifices his life to prevent Buffy from facing Lothos before she is ready. Also, in the comic "the Origin", we are shown a flashback of a newly called Slayer who is being told by her Watcher that she knew what she had been preparing for. She knew she was next in line and she knew about the battle that her predecessor had left to fight before being killed.

 

[Plasma]

I often find it completely remarkable that no one asks this question. Why was Buffy not paid? Why was Faith not paid AND given a living expense stipend as she had no family?

If she's not paid and cannot quit, how does this differ from slavery?

Does this make the whole thing a lot like a cult? Brainwashing... coercing... Hotel California-ing...

I have more questions, but let us start with those. Those are the biggies.

As grim as it is, I just assume the Watchers don’t think the girls will survive very long, so they don’t find a reason to pay them as it’ll be a waste of money.

Think back to their ritual in Helpless and how many girls that could’ve easily killed. With how careless the council was towards that, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that they cynically didn’t feel the slayers were “worth paying” due to their poor survivability.

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

I didn't say the Shadowmen choose the Slayers, I said that they were the ones who decided it would always be a teenage girl and the Watchers as their successors began essentially abducting potentials to brainwash them.

You said the Council (not the Shadowmen) uses teenage girls because they're easier to control, which is factually wrong because that implies they choose who they're gonna train. They don't have ulterior motives, they merely train those who were chosen.

It doesn't contradict season 7 at all. All the girls we saw getting hunted down by Bringers in the beginning of the season were the ones that were easiest to find -- the ones that had been living with their Watchers. Most of the ones who survived were the ones like Buffy, who didn't grow up knowing about the Slayer lore. Kennedy seemed to be the exception, having had some degree of training prior to being picked up by Giles.

And when Buffy meets Merrick for the first time he tells her that she should have been identified and prepared for her duties before she was called, but there were complications which prevented it. That's why Merrick has to give her a crash-course in training, and why he ultimately sacrifices his life to prevent Buffy from facing Lothos before she is ready. Also, in the comic "the Origin", we are shown a flashback of a newly called Slayer who is being told by her Watcher that she knew what she had been preparing for. She knew she was next in line and she knew about the battle that her predecessor had left to fight before being killed.

But I don't think there's any indication that being taken away from their parents to be trained was the norm. We know Buffy wasn't the only one who hasn't been trained by a Watcher since she was a little girl, she's not an isolated case. At the very least, we know Kendra wasn't the only one who has been trained by a Watcher since she was a kid, but that doesn't mean most of them were taken away from their parents when they were kids.

 

[famicommander]

As grim as it is, I just assume the Watchers don’t think the girls will survive very long, so they don’t find a reason to pay them as it’ll be a waste of money.

Think back to their ritual in Helpless and how many girls that could’ve easily killed. With how careless the council was towards that, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that they cynically didn’t feel the slayers were “worth paying” due to their poor survivability.

It's not that they didn't have faith in their survivability, it's that they were explicitly against it. They want their Slayers to essentially get called, prevent one major apocalypse, and then die so that they get another younger, more controllable replacement. They are threatened by the power of the Slayer and the prospect of her becoming fully realized. That's why the women who protected the Scythe all those centuries hid themselves away from the Shadowmen and The Watchers.

Post automatically merged: Apr 6, 2025

You said the Council (not the Shadowmen) uses teenage girls because they're easier to control, which is factually wrong because that implies they choose who they're gonna train. They don't have ulterior motives, they merely train those who were chosen.


But I don't think there's any indication that being taken away from their parents to be trained was the norm. We know Buffy wasn't the only one who hasn't been trained by a Watcher since she was a little girl, she's not an isolated case. At the very least, we know Kendra wasn't the only one who has been trained by a Watcher since she was a kid, but that doesn't mean most of them were taken away from their parents when they were kids.

The Shadowmen and the Watchers are one and the same, just at different points in time.

The Council absolutely has ulterior motives. That's why the women with the Scythe hid from them for all of recorded history, and why Buffy quitting the council in season 3 and then putting them in their place in season 5 are both seen as major growth moments for Buffy as a character. Her rejection of the methodology and traditions of the Council are what make her a unique character, and are the reason she had friends like Xander, Angel, Willow, Tara, and Anya to revive her from death twice.

 

[November]

Since previous watchers were more involved with previous slayers, they were presumably paid enough to cover their Slayers living expenses.
So why doesn't Giles pay Buffy - at least subcontract type? He had less responsibility than other Watchers, Buffy didn't live with him. Buffy had a support network outside of him. Buffy was well trained before she met him.

She could have used a security detail to support her from day one. Weapons fund. Weapons training. security for her home. A witch on retainer.

Faith lived with her first watcher -- so she had financial support if indirectly

So maybe Giles should have covered all of this. He was being paid, two incomes, at times. We know he had more than enough to keep his own home after losing the library job, enough for his shiny red car and dates, enough to start a small business and enough that he could up and move to England after Buffy died.

Giles giving Buffy that money after she came back to life was the least he could contribute financially, and that was after she went through all the stress and struggle. Maybe Giles is just another deadbeat dad in the Jossverse.

 

[nightshade]

As grim as it is, I just assume the Watchers don’t think the girls will survive very long, so they don’t find a reason to pay them as it’ll be a waste of money.

I think it's a combination of this and that it is teenagers and younger, so they don't feel that a wage is needed, especially if the Slayers are living with the watchers.

 

[NotASlayer]

I would expect the Watchers to not so much pay a wage but to pay a stipend, so that the Slayer doesn't need to work, and more than likely get them out of formal education as soon as possible, entirely because they consider the Slayers to be expendable. Might as well run them into the ground getting as much use out of them as possible before you get them killed; a philosophy that I think would be entirely in keeping with the Council's general treatment of the Slayers.

Would many Slayers, or Potentials, be living with their Watchers? I mean, given that the Watchers are predominately men and the Slayers/Potentials are teenage girls probably at least one to two decades younger, that is the sort of thing that would draw attention.

 

[November]

Would many Slayers, or Potentials, be living with their Watchers? I mean, given that the Watchers are predominately men and the Slayers/Potentials are teenage girls probably at least one to two decades younger, that is the sort of thing that would draw attention.

Historically, an old guy financially providing for a young woman wouldn't be abnormal. Especially if the Slayer is anywhere in Asia/Africa or the middle east, even in current times.

Plus not all were stationed on a Hellmouth. Maybe some Slayers were on the road travelling to threats, likely not settling into any community that noticed.

 

[NotASlayer]

Historically, an old guy financially providing for a young woman wouldn't be abnormal. Especially if the Slayer is anywhere in Asia/Africa or the middle east, even in current times.

True, it is only comparatively recently that such would draw attention.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Not all watchers are single. Not all are male.

 

[HushSarah]

Because the council are an oppressive organization that operates on unflinching autocracy.

 

[famicommander]

I would expect the Watchers to not so much pay a wage but to pay a stipend, so that the Slayer doesn't need to work, and more than likely get them out of formal education as soon as possible, entirely because they consider the Slayers to be expendable. Might as well run them into the ground getting as much use out of them as possible before you get them killed; a philosophy that I think would be entirely in keeping with the Council's general treatment of the Slayers.

Would many Slayers, or Potentials, be living with their Watchers? I mean, given that the Watchers are predominately men and the Slayers/Potentials are teenage girls probably at least one to two decades younger, that is the sort of thing that would draw attention.

Most Slayers are mobile, they don't often stay in one place. They move from trouble to trouble. Buffy becoming the guardian of the Hellmouth was completely atypical for a Slayer.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Eh, the only evidence we had that Watchers are paid is a throwaway joke from season five. It never gets brought up again, before or after. Most of them appear to be quite posh, some are clearly independently wealthy. I don't even like the idea of them being paid. I like the idea of a hereditary network of scholars, priests, soldiers, spies, mages, seers and fellow travelers who occasional meet in the restricted section of the Oxford Library to share information, contacts and discuss difficult issues.

Although, my best way of addressing this is;
Buffy: "Giles, do Slayers get paid?"
Giles: "Yes Buffy, you do. You should have been receiving fairly generous birthday cards from your grandmother every couple of weeks."
Buffy: "Oh, that was the Watchers? Huh, I figured she was just getting forgetful."
Giles: "Buffy, your grandmother died two years ago."
Buffy: "I guess I was just getting forgetful."

But the truth is, any TV show can only cover 1 hour of the characters life in a week. Presumably, the other 167 hours are for discussing ways and means.

 

[November]

the only evidence we had that Watchers are paid is a throwaway joke from season five. It never gets brought up again, before or after.

This is the part in checkpoint where it is confirmed that Giles is paid by the watchers council.

So here's how it's gonna work. You're gonna tell me everything you know. Then you're gonna go away. You'll contact me if and when you have any further information about Glory. The magic shop will remain open. Mr. Giles will stay here as my official Watcher, reinstated at full salary.
Giles (pretending to cough, muffling the word): Retroactive.
Buffy: To be paid retroactively from the month he was fired.

 

[garfan]

the only time I ever considered Watching a non paying job was when Donald Sutherland was Merrick. Within the show, the way Giles described it, it seemed like a career to me

 

[NotASlayer]

Because the council are an oppressive organization that operates on unflinching autocracy.

I agree, but as I mentioned, a stipend, which I would assume given the Council would be doled out by the Watcher as needed, would give the Council more control over a Slayer, not less. If her only source of money to survive is completely dependent on the Council, that discourages independence.

Most Slayers are mobile, they don't often stay in one place. They move from trouble to trouble. Buffy becoming the guardian of the Hellmouth was completely atypical for a Slayer.

If anything, this is likely to lead to higher costs rather than lower ones, especially for a teen.

the only time I ever considered Watching a non paying job was when Donald Sutherland was Merrick. Within the show, the way Giles described it, it seemed like a career to me

Yes; the Council would be unlikely to expect all the Watchers and ancillary staff, all adults (and male-dominated at that) to work as volunteers, because real jobs take time away from their proper job. Yes, Giles did work in the school library, but it looked like the rest of the students and staff didn't bother using it much, giving him lots of free time and no need to answer awkward questions like "Why do you have so many sharp pointy things?" or "Why is there a werewolf locked up in that cage?" So he had a job, but one that didn't take much time away from his Watcher job.