Why We Fight...

S

Sunnydale Siren

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decent episode, needed more scenes with Nosferatu though. I liked Prince of Lies, dude was funny. :lmao:


Lawson looked like an adult version of Alfalfa from The Little Rascals.
 
Well, is the first time we got to see a male vamp sire another male and it was Angel doing it which was hot.

Oh, and Spike to Angel "You can swab my deck" majorly hot.
 
I love this episode. I really do. I basically love every flashback scenes that has something to do with Angel/Darla/Dru/Spike. And how funny was The Prince of Lies? "I was Rasputin's LOVER!"

My favorite scene is the last one

"What was he looking for?"
"...A reason."
 
Perny said:
I love this episode. I really do. I basically love every flashback scenes that has something to do with Angel/Darla/Dru/Spike. And how funny was The Prince of Lies? "I was Rasputin's LOVER!"

My favorite scene is the last one

"What was he looking for?"
"...A reason."
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I wish the POL wasn't killed off so quickly.
 
I actually reasonably enjoyed this episode! I'm not usually a fan of the flashback episodes, but I thought that it gave us a nice backstory, and it was funny to watch Angel try and be the middle man.

Also, I thought it was interesting that Angel (once again) managed to fool Spike into thinking that he was evil, yet in School Hard Spike knows straight away. *Sigh* I swear I'm not focusing on more inconsistences.
 
S
Scythus
and he actually put more into acting like he was evil in school hard too, he just seemed like angel to me in WWF
I just watched this episode for the 1st time ever. Decent episode, we get to see more of Angel and Spike's Past. I like how this episode this episode tied in with The Initiative. It's funny how Spike says in the flashback he will never be part of the Govt's experiments, but we know he eventually will be 56 years later.


My only gripe was that I would have liked to have seen Angel feeling some sorrow for the loss of Cordelia. An episode like "Forever" from Buffy season 5 would have been nice just to see how Cordelia's death affects Angel, Wesley, Gunn, Lorne and Fred.
 
The only part I loved in this episode was when Spike ends up being the "Monster". Other than that, the everything was mediocre. The plot was more of a "What if Angel was in a submarine?" than an actually thought out story. The whole part with the government sending Angel into the sub was just... Unlikely. I mean, why would they let him go after that without a word? They never pop up again to make him do more missions or try to kill him, even though they all know what he is. Just doesn't add up. They would've showed up when he moved to LA in the first place or when he turned into Angellus in season two of Buffy.
 
It looks like I'm in the minority here but I really liked this episode. For anyone who used to watch the X-Files, both this episode and the Numero Cinco one reminded me a lot of the monster of the week X-Files episodes that really didn't have anything to do with aliens and the big government conspiracy to cover them up but instead told their own unique and self-contained story. Both Why We Fight and The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco more or less just have a monster of the week premise and use it as a venue to give a little more backstory and depth to the characters.

I always considered Why We Fight to give some pretty neat insight into who Angel was. Even with a soul, he committed a huge sin by siring that sailor, effectively condemning him to becoming a freak amongst vampires who can't seem to derive satisfaction from either being good or evil. It provides a good compliment to the season 2 episode Are You Now or Have You Ever Been as it showed that even after he had a soul, he still committed some pretty terrible acts in the past that he has to atone for.

What I think really makes this episode shine for me though is just that this was a chance for the writers to try something completely different and I think they had a lot of fun with it. Spike had some good laughs (damn those Nazis and their fake virgin blood parties), the prince of lies was hilariously creepy, and who can forget the scourge of Siberia and Rasputin's lover, Nostroyev? It takes an awful big amount of talent to play Coachman, Spare Your Horses on the lute of someone's entrails.
 
I liked this episode!It was weird seeing Angel fighting in a submarine!!!I had no idea he sired another man after he got his soul!interesting episode!
 
ubi4soft said:
Well, is the first time we got to see a male vamp sire another male and it was Angel doing it which was hot.

Oh, and Spike to Angel "You can swab my deck" majorly hot.
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Totally agreed on this one. Can't karma you on BB Mobile but if would f I could.

---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------

Stakesteak said:
It looks like I'm in the minority here but I really liked this episode. For anyone who used to watch the X-Files, both this episode and the Numero Cinco one reminded me a lot of the monster of the week X-Files episodes that really didn't have anything to do with aliens and the big government conspiracy to cover them up but instead told their own unique and self-contained story. Both Why We Fight and The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco more or less just have a monster of the week premise and use it as a venue to give a little more backstory and depth to the characters.

I always considered Why We Fight to give some pretty neat insight into who Angel was. Even with a soul, he committed a huge sin by siring that sailor, effectively condemning him to becoming a freak amongst vampires who can't seem to derive satisfaction from either being good or evil. It provides a good compliment to the season 2 episode Are You Now or Have You Ever Been as it showed that even after he had a soul, he still committed some pretty terrible acts in the past that he has to atone for.

What I think really makes this episode shine for me though is just that this was a chance for the writers to try something completely different and I think they had a lot of fun with it. Spike had some good laughs (damn those Nazis and their fake virgin blood parties), the prince of lies was hilariously creepy, and who can forget the scourge of Siberia and Rasputin's lover, Nostroyev? It takes an awful big amount of talent to play Coachman, Spare Your Horses on the lute of someone's entrails.
Click to expand...

Great post. I guess we are in the minority because I also totally love this episode for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm personally fascinated by Angel and Spike's dynamic, so any backstory with the two is like candy to me.
 
I always enjoy this one too. I just really love the irony that Spike is on a Sub that was intercepted by Angel via orders from the newly formed 'Demon Research Initiative' in order to get their hands on the Nazis' demon reserch and Spike finds that research, burns said research, his coat catches fire so he drops the burning document leaving a remnant of the research in tact and on board the sub when passes into US hands and then forty years later he gets a chip in his head.

I'm a sucker for anything with a flashback 😉
 
Sunnydale Siren said:
decent episode, needed more scenes with Nosferatu though. I liked Prince of Lies, dude was funny. :lmao:


Lawson looked like an adult version of Alfalfa from The Little Rascals.
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LOL on the Little Rascals reference 😉

I just watched this again last night and it just reaffirmed for me what an excellent episode this is. Very underrated I believe. Some very funny lines from Spike (and love the dark hair!) and the Prince of Lies is just priceless.

We get so much insight into Angel's character, as well.

- We find out Angel sired someone after he got his soul.
-We see Fred's lingering doubt regarding working for W&H.
-Angel says, "I'm not a man" echoing what he said back in "Angel" to Buffy: - "I walk and talk like a man, but I'm not one."
-We see some much-needed Spike back story.

THE PRINCE OF LIES! Ha. What a riot.

Plus, any flashback scenes with Angel and Spike are like candy to me (the sexual subtext between those two is so hot.) I find their dynamic fascinating. 'Destiny' is also a great ep for this.
 
Maybe this is why Spike is "hostile 17." He was one of the first projects OF the initiative, hence his low number. Also, does anyone else see fleeting but glaring similarities between the "Demon Research Initiative" history, and the real life OSS/CIA story?
 
Let's talk about Lawson.

* vampires rise on the evening after 24 hours past their death, Lawson seems to rise immediately being needed on the submarine.
* Angel had a soul so did this impact the vampire Lawson? he was clearly soulless but did not seemed to enjoy very much being evil.
* what about the blood-lust of the newly born vampires? what did he eat? clearly not his crew or did they donate voluntarily?
* he accepted to became a vampire for the greater good (saving his crew and finish the mission) based on following:
LAWSON:There's a difference between orders... and purpose, sir.(covers a body with a blanket)I didn't sign on 'cause I needed directions. Hell, growin' up, I used to make fun of the military boys. Always figured they wouldn't know how to tie their shoes if someone didn't give 'em the go-ahead. Then I saw pictures of what the Krauts were doing. Evil's spreading, sir... and it's not just over there. It was on my ship, it killed my crew, and we gotta stop it! And I've been scared out of my mind since I signed on for this duty, but I can keep it together, I can even handle dying, if I know it's for a greater purpose.
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* he still needed a purpose after becoming a vampire, why did Angel killed him as opposite to Harmony (he could give Lawson some purpose working at W&H) or as opposite to Faith (help him to obtain a soul if he wanted of magik or african origin)
 
ubi4soft said:
Let's talk about Lawson.

* vampires rise on the evening after 24 hours past their death, Lawson seems to rise immediately being needed on the submarine.
* Angel had a soul so did this impact the vampire Lawson? he was clearly soulless but did not seemed to enjoy very much being evil.
* what about the blood-lust of the newly born vampires? what did he eat? clearly not his crew or did they donate voluntarily?
* he accepted to became a vampire for the greater good (saving his crew and finish the mission) based on following:

* he still needed a purpose after becoming a vampire, why did Angel killed him as opposite to Harmony (he could give Lawson some purpose working at W&H) or as opposite to Faith (help him to obtain a soul if he wanted of magik or african origin)
Click to expand...

Vampires never seem to rise according to specific rules, some others take days to rise (until after they are buried), others appear to rise almost immediately. I totally agree with all the rest, but Lawson DID have Angel's friend captive under pain of death (kind of, there are a couple of problems with this too; if Angel had stabbed him, how would he have used his "insurance"? They were in another room and he could not have killed them before dying.)
 
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