This came up in another thread. Because of what Dawn is, is she human, does she have a soul, will she go on to the afterlife when she dies?
Will Dawn go to heaven when she dies?
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
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NY State of Mind
Cain
I guess since she's human form now she has the same human features of a soul unlike something undead like a Vamp....so I say yes but it is a tricky subject
BuffyElevated
Scooby
I think that she will go to Heaven... The monks took her energy and made her human. She has blood now and she lives and functions as a human. I think she'll go to Heaven because she lives a pretty good life, meaning she fights for the good instead of the bad.
Valjavertjinn
I am, I am, I am.
Yeah, that is tough. She appears to be mostly human, but she's got all that key energy inside her. When she dies, she and her consciousness might just evaporate into key energy. But then, what would the key energy do? Just float around? I don't know.
But, since Dawn is at least partly human, and has lived as one for at least part of her life, I think that she has a good shot of getting into heaven.
But, since Dawn is at least partly human, and has lived as one for at least part of her life, I think that she has a good shot of getting into heaven.
I don't think she can. While she is physically human, and probably has a soul to go to Heaven, she is still the personified Key. I think she'll just be Key energy, disappated through the universe once again.
brinkster130
[No message]
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
My belief is that the Key is an immortal, higher being that doesn't really need a soul. I think if Dawn's body died the Key would be released, and would go wherever in the universe it wanted, probably with Dawn's memories attached.
K
kittenpoker
I like this.
brinkster130
[No message]
Chosen Enemy
Losing my soul
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If the energy was made into a hammer instead of human being, it would still hit the nail, it is able to. I know, weird analogy. But this is how I see the human part of Dawn. She is human. Human with energy inside of her. Like other people in the verse (even not the main characters), they have powers, but they're still human. Like Buffy. She is human, completely. And she has super powers. And she went to heaven. Even though she sort of has a demon inside of her (the one put in the first Slayer, that turned her into a Slayer, human with super powers).
And Willow has powerd too, some she's natural at. She's a human being with supernatural powers inside of her. She'll go to heaven (probably, lol).
That's how I see it. Never really thought about it before.
And Willow has powerd too, some she's natural at. She's a human being with supernatural powers inside of her. She'll go to heaven (probably, lol).
That's how I see it. Never really thought about it before.
This is more or less what I think too. I don't think Dawn would go to heaven simply because I don't think she'd truly die so much as her key properties would be released from the mortal coil of Dawn. Whether or not she would retain her memories I feel unsure of as I think of the "key" as a nebulous glowy substance.
brinkster130
[No message]
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
A soul in the Buffyverse is also depicted as a nebulous glowy substance... I think the Key stands in for Dawn's soul and serves the same purpose.
It was never really explained what they Key was for, aside from giving Glory an opportunity to wreck the universe.
It was never really explained what they Key was for, aside from giving Glory an opportunity to wreck the universe.
Washburne
Protector of the key.
Hmm. Never thought of it like this. What do we know about heaven Buffyverse style* anyway besides Buffy is remembering being there. How do we define soul? Do your memory follow? Guess so since Bufy remember. Are you surrounded by loved ones? When it would be cruel not to have Dawn in heaven. Shut up you Dawn haters. 😉
I think Dawn as Dawn will go to heaven while the key part of her will have no business there. Does that make any sense? Don't find the words to express it.
* Not that we know much, if anything, of any version of heaven. Either it's beliefs, guesses and wishes or someones own imagination put to paper.
I think Dawn as Dawn will go to heaven while the key part of her will have no business there. Does that make any sense? Don't find the words to express it.
* Not that we know much, if anything, of any version of heaven. Either it's beliefs, guesses and wishes or someones own imagination put to paper.
white avenger
white avenger
Since the Buffyverse seems to correlate the soul with a conscience, a sence of guilt, and the capacity for selfless love, then I would say that Dawn does have a soul or a reasonable facsimile. However, given that Joss is an avowed and very outspoken atheist, I seriously doubt that he would see Heaven as being anywhere in Dawn's future. Maybe one of those "heaven dimensions" that Tara mentioned Buffy being in when she was dead, but I'm not sure that that is quite the same thing.
Willow My Love
Scooby
I don't think so. She even says, "I'm not the key anymore. Or, if I am, I don't open anything," which doesn't mean she's not. Willow tries to kill her for her energy at the end of s6. I don't think she actually has a soul. Just because you look like a duck, act like a duck, and talk like a duck doesn't necessarily mean you are a duck, y'know?
I've always thought that she ended up being like any other human.
And therefor the same rules applies to her as any other human in the buffyverse.
Have no idea if that means she can go to heaven, or not, though...
/SK
And therefor the same rules applies to her as any other human in the buffyverse.
Have no idea if that means she can go to heaven, or not, though...
/SK
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I think of it this way:
1. The Order of Dagon presumably didn't have the godlike ability to create a human soul out of nothing; therefore, since Dawn was created and not born, she couldn't have had a soul in the normal sense.
2. The Key is very ancient, a ball of energy very much like souls are depicted in the Buffyverse, and is referred to by the monks as if it were a living being, not a thing.
3. If Dawn didn't have a soul, or something like it, she would be like a vampire, with no sense of morality or humanity.
4. So, assuming the monks can't create souls, The Key must be the thing serving in Dawn in place of a soul.
5. Since Dawn doesn't turn evil or amoral after "The Gift," The Key must still be there inside her, still serving as her soul. She doesn't think she opens anything anymore, but how would she know? She didn't know she was The Key in the first place until somebody told her. And Dark Willow obviously still thinks the power is inside her.
It's never been explicitly said (and I intend to ask if I ever get the chance), but it's possible that only natural-born human beings have souls, as such, in the Buffyverse. As is revealed in the preview pages for the upcoming issue of the season 9 comics, demons actually have their essences sent back to hell when their physical bodies are killed in this world (much like the demons in Supernatural when their "meat suits" get killed). Godlike beings, such as Glory and Illyria, probably don't have regular souls either, yet they are capable of making moral decisions.
Joss is an atheist, and I doubt he intends for the soul in the Buffyverse to necessarily be something "holy" like in Christianity. Instead it's like the rudder of a ship... the ship will still float without the rudder, but the captain won't be able to control which way it sails. Memories and the sense of identity clearly go with the body, not the soul... at least until the afterlife.
1. The Order of Dagon presumably didn't have the godlike ability to create a human soul out of nothing; therefore, since Dawn was created and not born, she couldn't have had a soul in the normal sense.
2. The Key is very ancient, a ball of energy very much like souls are depicted in the Buffyverse, and is referred to by the monks as if it were a living being, not a thing.
3. If Dawn didn't have a soul, or something like it, she would be like a vampire, with no sense of morality or humanity.
4. So, assuming the monks can't create souls, The Key must be the thing serving in Dawn in place of a soul.
5. Since Dawn doesn't turn evil or amoral after "The Gift," The Key must still be there inside her, still serving as her soul. She doesn't think she opens anything anymore, but how would she know? She didn't know she was The Key in the first place until somebody told her. And Dark Willow obviously still thinks the power is inside her.
It's never been explicitly said (and I intend to ask if I ever get the chance), but it's possible that only natural-born human beings have souls, as such, in the Buffyverse. As is revealed in the preview pages for the upcoming issue of the season 9 comics, demons actually have their essences sent back to hell when their physical bodies are killed in this world (much like the demons in Supernatural when their "meat suits" get killed). Godlike beings, such as Glory and Illyria, probably don't have regular souls either, yet they are capable of making moral decisions.
Joss is an atheist, and I doubt he intends for the soul in the Buffyverse to necessarily be something "holy" like in Christianity. Instead it's like the rudder of a ship... the ship will still float without the rudder, but the captain won't be able to control which way it sails. Memories and the sense of identity clearly go with the body, not the soul... at least until the afterlife.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one... In Joss' world, religion and spirituality are very muddy subjects, and I think he meant to make it that way. I think he kinda wanted people to interpret it how they wanted, you know?
SlayerFest
Wiley Dairy Gnome
Didn't they turn the key, into a human? She still has a soul, her blood was just once capable of opening a portal to a hell dimension 😀