Will Jeremy Corbyn's handling of the Antisemitism within the Labour party decide his future?

[Mr Trick]

Corbyn, antisemitism and a week that tugged at Labour's frayed fabric

It feels like a crucial time for his leadership. I don't understand why Ken Livingstone has not been suspended out right whether than just temporary banned. His response to this latest scandal has to be quick and firm. Corbyn has already lost momentum since his peak last summer. If he gets this wrong I think it could be the end for him as Labour leader.

Thoughts?

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Does it make any difference, he told that many lies during the Brexit farce, he didn't even get told off when he was found out. Him and the foreign secretary put lies on the side of a bus, got found out then nothing.
English politics are crap, serves the English right for what they've got.

 

[Mr Trick]

Does it make any difference, he told that many lies during the Brexit farce, he didn't even get told off when he was found out. Him and the foreign secretary put lies on the side of a bus, got found out then nothing.
English politics are crap, serves the English right for what they've got.

No, that wasn't Corbyn. That was people from the right. Corbyn's party isn't in power, their the main opposition.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

So the conservative party are a bunch of liars, no news there. And when the labour guys quit or get sacked they come here (Australia) and try to stuff up this country.
What was the Anti-Semitism in the labour party

 

[thetopher]

Oh yes, the left's long association with antisemitism is finally being addressed.

It feels like a crucial time for his leadership. I don't understand why Ken Livingstone has not been suspended out right whether than just temporary banned.

Ken Livingstone gets to keep his job for the simple reason that he's popular with the trade unions and Corbyn is a union man; he won't fire him unless he really has to, no matter what Livingstone says or states about Jews and Zionism.

His response to this latest scandal has to be quick and firm. Corbyn has already lost momentum since his peak last summer.

Corbyn has actually been muddled and weak in his replies, giving statement after statement as his own party asks for tougher action/more clarity on the matter. He doesn't really want to talk about what he has actually exacerbated quite badly during his short tenure.

If he gets this wrong I think it could be the end for him as Labour leader.

More likely it will lead to a deep split within the Labour party; they've tried to unsuccessfully oust him twice but he's too dug in now; the only way Corbyn leaves is if he loses the next election badly enough.

English politics are crap, serves the English right for what they've got.

Maybe you shouldn't comment on things you are clearly too ill-informed to talk about accurately. This thread wasn't about Brexit or the Conservative party but about something a lot more important; institutional racism in one of the major parties that has been ignored for far too long.

 

[Steven123]

To be honest I think Labour has been on a downward spiral for some time now. Corbyn is one of those people that strikes me as, he'll come out and say something that will get people on his side from the start, but from that moment on he rolls with it rather than really knowing anything else to say or do. This is again something that happens in a lot of political parties, maybe not to this extent, but as soon as something gets stirred up, it's as though the person everyone else is looking to freezes on any action because they don't want to harm the party anymore than what has already been done by this point.

With everything that has happened with Shawcroft and that email she sent out recently, the best Corbyn has done so far is promise to "speed up" disciplinary procedures.., and that's it. I think it's in situations like these you can see if people are truly up to the job in the bigger picture..., and so far, I don't think he is.

 

[Mr Trick]

To be honest I think Labour has been on a downward spiral for some time now. Corbyn is one of those people that strikes me as, he'll come out and say something that will get people on his side from the start, but from that moment on he rolls with it rather than really knowing anything else to say or do. This is again something that happens in a lot of political parties, maybe not to this extent, but as soon as something gets stirred up, it's as though the person everyone else is looking to freezes on any action because they don't want to harm the party anymore than what has already been done by this point.

With everything that has happened with Shawcroft and that email she sent out recently, the best Corbyn has done so far is promise to "speed up" disciplinary procedures.., and that's it. I think it's in situations like these you can see if people are truly up to the job in the bigger picture..., and so far, I don't think he is.

One good thing about the last Election was that it at least made Labour a proper opposition to the Torries which is something we needed. Sadly certain members of the party seem determined to mess all that up. Though I can see some of the merits of a character like Corbyn I'm still unconvinced and think that ultimately he will prove too divisive. With any party as big and diverse as Labour there will be good and bad.

 

[Athena]

Let's stop the personal attacks and just have a civilised discussion please.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

One good thing about the last Election was that it at least made Labour a proper opposition to the Torries which is something we needed. Sadly certain members of the party seem determined to mess all that up. Though I can see some of the merits of a character like Corbyn I'm still unconvinced and think that ultimately he will prove too divisive. With any party as big and diverse as Labour there will be good and bad.

IMO Labour has not provided a proper opposition over the most important issue facing the UK. They are merely enabling the Conservative Brexit policy, instead of opposing it. For the first time in my life I am considering not voting for the Labour Party.
I believe that Corbyn was the joke candidate in his first leadership contest but got elected through the efforts of the far left and right, working to undermine the party, thanks to them allowing votes in the leadership election to any "supporter" willing to pony up £3...a policy instigated by Ed Miliband to broaden the party's appeal but which served to allow an unelectable (again IMO) leader to come to power.

 

[Mr Trick]

IMO Labour has not provided a proper opposition over the most important issue facing the UK. They are merely enabling the Conservative Brexit policy, instead of opposing it. For the first time in my life I am considering not voting for the Labour Party.
I believe that Corbyn was the joke candidate in his first leadership contest but got elected through the efforts of the far left and right, working to undermine the party, thanks to them allowing votes in the leadership election to any "supporter" willing to pony up £3...a policy instigated by Ed Miliband to broaden the party's appeal but which served to allow an unelectable (again IMO) leader to come to power.

I think Brexit is a tricky one for them. The problem is that many people see a move towards a softer Brexit or a push for some form of costumes Union as an attempt to reverse Brexit. Not saying I agree with that, but that is one theory out there. I do think Corbyn and Labour should have been clearer on their position. One of Corbyn's biggest mistakes I think was to dismiss the possibility of Labour banding together with the other left leaning parties. Last summer I did see it as being realistic that he and Labour could get into power. But the moment has passed. I've voted Green the last two elections. Not yet sure who I will vote for this time. Do you live in an area where Labour could realistically get in? Sometimes it might be an idea to vote on a smaller party as a tactical vote.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I think Brexit is a tricky one for them. The problem is that many people see a move towards a softer Brexit or a push for some form of costumes Union as an attempt to reverse Brexit. Not saying I agree with that, but that is one theory out there. I do think Corbyn and Labour should have been clearer on their position. One of Corbyn's biggest mistakes I think was to dismiss the possibility of Labour banding together with the other left leaning parties. Last summer I did see it as being realistic that he and Labour could get into power. But the moment has passed. I've voted Green the last two elections. Not yet sure who I will vote for this time. Do you live in an area where Labour could realistically get in? Sometimes it might be an idea to vote on a smaller party as a tactical vote.

I think the only other party I could vote for would be the Greens but they have no chance in our constituency. The MP before the current Tory incumbent was Labour and a very good backbench member but I can't see a turn round any time soon, especially with Corbyn as leader. There was a time when I would've considered a tactical vote for the LibDems but not since 2010...

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I think it would be dangerous to have Corbyn as prime minister. He's too weak in the face of opposition. He would've rolled over on the Russian thing. Say what you will about May, but I think she is the right person to lead us through Brexit. After that who knows, but it's important to keep Corbyn away until Brexit is done and dusted. The EU would walk all over him. Of course you have Blair like a snake in the grass, I'm sure he's got the title of "Head Boy" within the EU.

 

[Mr Trick]

I think the only other party I could vote for would be the Greens but they have no chance in our constituency. The MP before the current Tory incumbent was Labour and a very good backbench member but I can't see a turn round any time soon, especially with Corbyn as leader. There was a time when I would've considered a tactical vote for the LibDems but not since 2010...

I can understand your thinking. But to me I tend to look at the smaller battles. I guess to vote for The Greens at least in theory is at least helping the party gain in support. If you're happy with your local Labour MP then voting him in could at least have an influence localling. Who knows maybe Corbyn will be gone by the next Election. Yeah I once voted Lib Dem in the good old Charles Kennedy days, RIP.

I think it would be dangerous to have Corbyn as prime minister. He's too weak in the face of opposition. He would've rolled over on the Russian thing. Say what you will about May, but I think she is the right person to lead us through Brexit. After that who knows, but it's important to keep Corbyn away until Brexit is done and dusted. The EU would walk all over him. Of course you have Blair like a snake in the grass, I'm sure he's got the title of "Head Boy" within the EU.

May is a bit like a caretaker to me. She's a safe pair of hands as long as there's nothing major to handle (sadly for her there is😉). She is a more modulate Tory. Compared to the alternatives right now, things could be worse. I don't agree that she's handling Brexit right though. Her and her party have been totally unprepared and have gone about the process in the total the wrong way IMO.

 

[Steven123]

I can understand your thinking. But to me I tend to look at the smaller battles. I guess to vote for The Greens at least in theory is at least helping the party gain in support. If you're happy with your local Labour MP then voting him in could at least have an influence localling. Who knows maybe Corbyn will be gone by the next Election. Yeah I once voted Lib Dem in the good old Charles Kennedy days, RIP.



May is a bit like a caretaker to me. She's a safe pair of hands as long as there's nothing major to handle (sadly for her there is😉). She is a more modulate Tory. Compared to the alternatives right now, things could be worse. I don't agree that she's handling Brexit right though. Her and her party have been totally unprepared and have gone about the process in the total the wrong way IMO.

Sadly I think the case for May is more that she didn't want brexit either, it comes across as more stalling tactics to stay in as long as possible than anything else to a lot of people and again, similar to Cameron giving up the post because he wanted to take the country in a different direction to what the people wanted, I feel May is in a similar position but doesn't want to lose any face value by saying so. We could do worse but until we have a PM who fully supports brexit for the same reason the public did, it will be the same story for a while I fear.

 

[Mr Trick]

Sadly I think the case for May is more that she didn't want brexit either, it comes across as more stalling tactics to stay in as long as possible than anything else to a lot of people and again, similar to Cameron giving up the post because he wanted to take the country in a different direction to what the people wanted, I feel May is in a similar position but doesn't want to lose any face value by saying so. We could do worse but until we have a PM who fully supports brexit for the same reason the public did, it will be the same story for a while I fear.

I think its probably more a case than her party is divided on the topic of Brexit. Not sure I agree with you on the public thing. For those who voted Brexit there were a number of different reasons. Many didn't have enough information to fully know what they were voting for. I actually think that most people who voted Brexit, certainly the ones who did it for identity or law reasons are probably quite happy at the moment with how things are going. For me Brexit needs to be a cross party thing, with Labour, the Lib Dems and possible The Greens involved. The public should get a vote on the final deal. And we need to stay in some sort of costumes union. Sadly, none of those things seem likely.

 

[Steven123]

I think its probably more a case than her party is divided on the topic of Brexit. Not sure I agree with you on the public thing. For those who voted Brexit there were a number of different reasons. Many didn't have enough information to fully know what they were voting for. I actually think that most people who voted Brexit, certainly the ones who did it for identity or law reasons are probably quite happy at the moment with how things are going. For me Brexit needs to be a cross party thing, with Labour, the Lib Dems and possible The Greens involved. The public should get a vote on the final deal. And we need to stay in some sort of costumes union. Sadly, none of those things seem likely.

With Cameron he was very much for staying in Europe but obviously once it was becoming apparent that the large majority of voters were "out", I think he realized then that's when it was going to be difficult to be in charge of a country where a larger percentage don't agree with what your plan is. I agree though that people (I don't think) understood for the most part what leaving entailed exactly, obviously they thought that there would be better deals within the UK it's self in terms of where funding could potentially go,potential better trade deals with the US etc..

As you said though..unlikely that a lot of things that should happen, will happen. As is politics, we vote and we put ideas forward and we get told what we will get, for very little to actually come from that.

 

[Bluebird]

I have also been accused of antisemitism, but then it doesn't take much. I tend to take any accusations with a pinch of salt since it also happened to me in an utterly ludicrous manner. You will find that if anything and everything is accused of antisemitism then you undermine real racism and real issues. Just like feminism.

Btw, I don't know what he said, I am not condoning any parties. All the parties in England are godawful.




But hey, what do I know, I'm just a hate filled racist. *rolls eyes right out of head*

 

[The Bronze]

Give over. Anyone who was susceptible to a Corbyn smear campaign would have swallowed any of the other crap already. The rest of us will continue to ignore this nonsense.

Seriously are none of you even remotely suspicious of the timing of this, as in just before a round of local elections where the Tories are predicted to get a beating?

That people are willing to stand with the tabloids, Tories and right wing Labour coup plotters against a lifelong anti racism campaigner is honestly nauseating.

Surprisingly enough having met a Jewish group at the weekend, Corbyn is being slated as they're the wrong Jews.

Post automatically merged: Apr 4, 2018

I think it would be dangerous to have Corbyn as prime minister. He's too weak in the face of opposition. He would've rolled over on the Russian thing.

By roll over I assume you actually mean that he'd follow international protocol and wait for evidence? As opposed to The Conservative approach of making lots of noise, ignoring the rules and achieving nothing of any merit whilst lying to the public?

Porton Down experts unable to verify precise source of novichok

Nerve agent attack: Johnson faces questions over Porton Down claim

Post automatically merged: Apr 4, 2018

I think it would be dangerous to have Corbyn as prime minister. He's too weak in the face of opposition. He would've rolled over on the Russian thing.

By roll over I assume you actually mean that he'd follow international protocol and wait for evidence? As opposed to The Conservative approach of making lots of noise, ignoring the rules and achieving nothing of any merit whilst lying to the public?

Porton Down experts unable to verify precise source of novichok

Nerve agent attack: Johnson faces questions over Porton Down claim

 

[Mr Trick]

Give over. Anyone who was susceptible to a Corbyn smear campaign would have swallowed any of the other crap already. The rest of us will continue to ignore this nonsense.

Seriously are none of you even remotely suspicious of the timing of this, as in just before a round of local elections where the Tories are predicted to get a beating?

That people are willing to stand with the tabloids, Tories and right wing Labour coup plotters against a lifelong anti racism campaigner is honestly nauseating.

Surprisingly enough having met a Jewish group at the weekend, Corbyn is being slated as they're the wrong Jews.

Post automatically merged: Apr 4, 2018

By roll over I assume you actually mean that he'd follow international protocol and wait for evidence? As opposed to The Conservative approach of making lots of noise, ignoring the rules and achieving nothing of any merit whilst lying to the public?

Porton Down experts unable to verify precise source of novichok

Nerve agent attack: Johnson faces questions over Porton Down claim

Post automatically merged: Apr 4, 2018

By roll over I assume you actually mean that he'd follow international protocol and wait for evidence? As opposed to The Conservative approach of making lots of noise, ignoring the rules and achieving nothing of any merit whilst lying to the public?

Porton Down experts unable to verify precise source of novichok

Nerve agent attack: Johnson faces questions over Porton Down claim

I think you are missing the point though. Most the people knocking Corbyn are not actually accusing him of being racist, but are criticizing him for not taking stronger action against those in his party who have made racist remarks. I don't see how anyone cannot be critical of him on that. The Ken Livingstone comments were unacceptable, and no matter what Corbyn may feel on the remarks the best course of action would be to have sacked him out right from the party. To me that seems quite clear cut. And he's been slow reacting to the latest antisemitism scandal IMO. I find your conspiracy theory on the timing of this just too far fetched. Again it was Corbyn who didn't sack Livingstone. It was Corbyn who didn't take enough action recently. I think he is making his own problems in this case. No one is perfect. You can't blame the press/Tories/Right Wing Labour members every time Corbyn has a case to answer. Sometimes you have to accept that he got something wrong.

 

[The Bronze]

The Ken Livingstone comments were unacceptable, and no matter what Corbyn may feel on the remarks the best course of action would be to have sacked him out right from the party. To me that seems quite clear cut.

Corbyn can't sack members. I believe that's the role of the General Secretary and NEC.

And he's been slow reacting to the latest antisemitism scandal IMO.

Rates of antisemitism within Labour have fallen since Corbyn has been leader.

AAV: What the mainstream media don't want you to know about anti-Semitism

I find your conspiracy theory on the timing of this just too far fetched.

Have you missed the last 3 years of this rubbish? Corbyn has been called everything under the sun to discredit him. Do you remember the nonsense about a brick through Angela Eagles window? Or the time that right wing Labour MPs coordinated on air resignations with the BBC.

Not to mention that a Tory was on Twitter saying they'd use the antisemitism stuff for the local elections. When I can find it again I'll link it.

You can't blame the press/Tories/Right Wing Labour members every time Corbyn has a case to answer.

I can when those cases are invented by these groups as a weapon to attack the man. Corbyn is a veteran anti racist campaigner who's welcomed in the Jewish community, see his time with Jewdas. On the other hand the Mail has a history of supporting Hitler and fascism. The Conservative party and right wing Labour MPs have been spouting antisemitic bile since this whole saga kicked off and no one has called them up.