Will Spike ever show up in the comics?

[Buffyverse Fan]

Huh???::huh1:: Exactly what do you mean by that?

Don't know if you're up to date on all the canon comics, if not there'll be some pretty big spoilers here (but nothing beyond what's already been revealed as of February '09):

Spoiler

Buffy:

1.) In Fray, her trainer Urkkon tells her about the final Slayer and the end of the apocalypse. The last major Slayer before Fray manages to banish all of the Big Bads from Earth for roughly 200 years in the beginning of the 21st Century (meaning between 2001 & 2025) with the help of her mystical allies (ie- Angel, Willow, etc.). Issue #2 even shows us snippets of the battle.

2.) At the time it was published Joss told David Fury that Buffy was the Slayer in question, and like Andrew C. joked, we didn't even need the confirmation since Buffy's the only Slayer who would wear a mini-skirt to an apocalypse anyway, lol.

Anyway, Joss thought it would make sense for Buffy to eventually "win," but with his interesting writing approach, he also mentioned that it adds even more depth for her to know she may have won the apocalypse, but the future she created still kind of sucks.

Angel:
1.) The Shanshu Prophecy was quite clear, that the Vampire with a soul will play a pivitol role in the Apocalypse (confirmed to be Angel and not Spike in After the Fall, it was also heavily implied in the series from "You're Welcome" onwards). So far he's been resurrected three times, and it's been implied that either W&H, the First or TPTB will keep on resurrecting him until he fulfills the prophecy.

2.) W&H gave him a vision in After the Fall showing him that during the apocalypse he will seemingly brutally mow down an entire army with his bare hands.

 

[white avenger]

Don't know if you're up to date on all the canon comics, if not there'll be some pretty big spoilers here (but nothing beyond what's already been revealed as of February '09):

Spoiler

Buffy:

Spoiler

The problem with all of those statements except the one by Joss is that they are based on information gained from less than reliable sources whose agenda would be served quite well if Angel and Buffy were making their respective plans based on faulty information. Considering how Angel learned about the Shanshu Prophecy, it could still be either a complete hoax or a manipulation of the real wording (remember "The father shall kill the son"? If Sagahn could do it, Wolfram & Hart could and would do the same thing on a much grander, more elaborate scale, beginning when Angel first became aware of the Prophecy and leading up to and beyond the events of "After The Fall."

As for anything that Joss might have said originally, his later statement that he would de-canonize everything in Season 8, and by implication, AtF, if he could come up with a better story for a movie or new series, pretty much cancels that out.

Basically, both everything that Fray and Buffy learned about the coming super apocalypse AND everything that Angel has learned about Shanshu could very well be a complete hoax in the end, set up, not by Wolfram and Hart, the First Evil, or the future Watchers' Council, but by the ultimate Big Bad of the Buffyverse, the trickster, the manipulator, the defiler of innocent young minds, Joss Bloody Whedon.

 

[passions1989]

Well, I think we're going to see some sort of convergence between After the Fall and Season 8, which is why Joss is keeping mum about what (if anything) the team knows about Angel and Spike right now.

First of all, the presence of time slips in both series seems to me like a huge indication not only that something similar is going on in both series but also that some syncing up of the two different timelines is possible. I'm not saying it's inevitable, but I think it's possible. I even think it is highly likely, as it would seem sort of sloppy to me if both stories involved time slips but had no common factor driving or enabling those time slips. Joss is not normally known to be sloppy, especially not when he's dealing with large, overarching plot elements like these.

Second, I'm seeing a lot of connections to Fray within those time slips -- and again, I'm seeing that in both series. During one slip, Spike was seen holding the scythe in Fray's timeline. Similarly, a much aged Angel was seen driving a car in that timeline. Obviously, Buffy went to Fray's time for the duration of an arc. I'm not sure how Fray is going to play into all of this and I've never read the Fray comics, but I'm getting the feeling that both our slayer army might and our HelL-A apocalypse play into the whole banishment of magic from this realm that sets Fray up as the kind of half chosen one. At any rate, Fray is yet another of the things that season 8 and After the Fall seem to have in common.

Finally, we know from Beta George's attempt to seek help from the world beyond LA that HelL-A exists in an alternate dimension separate from the "normal" world of the Buffyverse. Similarly, we know from the fact that -- despite Willow's warnings -- Fray's world and timeline exist even after the events of the Time of Your Life arc, that they, too, may exist in an alternate dimension separate from the Buffyverse. This existence of multiple separate, yet interrelated dimensions and timelines suggest to me the possibility that Buffy and co. may know nothing of what goes on in Hell-A until or unless a time slip or other convergence occurs.

So, in a nutshell: I think the two series are currently operating in different timelines in different dimensions, so I don't think she knows yet. Given the instability of these multiple timelines and dimensions and their tendency toward convergence in Fray's timeline and dimension, I think Buffy's going to find out. I think both series are headed toward a conclusion (or, at least, a climax) involving Fray, and I think that is when the Hell-A arc (as well as Spike's resurrection) will be revealed to Buffy. Wherever Joss is taking us, I think there are larger things at work here than a simple revelation of Spike's resurrection.

Okay I just read the "Gigantic Spoiler" thread regarding Joss's comment about Angel and whether or not he will make a future appearance in BTVS season 8. But it sort of pisses me off that Joss doesn't comment about Spike and his appearance in season 8. Am I the only one who is more interested to know when Spike will appear rather than Angel?! Don't get me wrong guys, I'm just as much a big Angel-fan equally as much as a Spike-fan, but it's starting to piss me off that none of the fans who attend these interviews or fan-conventions bother to ask about Spike to Joss. I certainly can't attend any of these because I live in India. I'm never going to get the chance to ask Joss myself.

palabravampiress I hope your theory is right, and I wonder whether your theory ties into Joss's recent comment ("Gigantic Spoiler" thread) regarding Angel and whether or not he will make an appearance in season 8.

 

[Warlock Angel]

^^^

I think the problem with Angel showing up on Buffy has to do with Ats being on the WB and Buffy being on UPN. The characters have diverge so far from each other that it doesn't seem that there is anything else left to tell. Angel seems more mature than Buffy, not just in age. Angel has a son, a recurring relationship with Nina and a destiny that doesn't seem to include Buffy. Buffy for some reason keeps making the same mistakes she's made since S5 of the series. Her current story really has nothing to do with Angel. At least with Spike there is an issue to be resolved. But once that's resolved I think Spike and Buffy can move on as well. I guess I'm of the though that the three "Champions" need to go their own separate ways for a while. I guess I would still want to see and Angel one shot on S8 mainly for my collection but I can't see how it would be important for the growth of the characters. And that's the most important thing. Does the meeting serve any type of character growth or is it just fan service.

 

[sosa lola]

I hope he will, and then have lots of hot gay sex with Xander 😀

I remember Joss saying that he'll use Spike and Angel in S8 but not together.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I remember Joss saying that he'll use Spike and Angel in S8 but not together.

So we have confirmation from Joss that we'll see Spike within the next 18-issues?

 

[sosa lola]

So we have confirmation from Joss that we'll see Spike within the next 18-issues?

I've always believed so. Joss had said that Spike would show up when the comics first started.