Willow and Magic

L

LadyLavinia

Scooby
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One of the many beliefs about Willow that has always irked me was claim that dark magic had led Willow to addiction and evil.

By blaming this so-called "black" magic, many fans seemed intent upon externalizing Willow's problems. They seem intent upon blaming the magic for her troubles and decisions . . . instead of Willow, herself.

Also, I don't believe in the term "black magic". I don't accept modern Western society's view that anything black is negative or evil. To me, magic is neutral. It's neither good or evil. It simply is. I believe what made the magic that Willow used negative, was her. Her emotions, her desires and intent, etc., had tainted the magic. The magic did not taint her.
 
Well, I do think the whole 'Willow's magic addiction = drug addiction' was a little too much, but it was important for her character.

And, in modern society (and past, too), people cast spells for purposes. Practicing wiccans do not practice magic just for the sake of calling oneself a witch; it is almost always done for a specific purpose.

I'm not a wiccan myself, so don't quote me.
 
I think that Willow's going Dark was definitely about her own internal issues, but I also think that there is Black Magic in the show.
The magic Willow started out using was fine, helpful, and sometimes even sweet (making her and Tara float in Family), but she got so deep into it that it became an addiction and when that happened, she was exploring all of the magics without choice. Obviously, she did quit but her pain at loosing Tara caused her to want to slip back into the magic to try and save. She was in so much pain that when she couldn't save Tara, the magic had already gotten its grip thus: Dark Willow.

So, yeah I do think there is bad magic, but there's also good and one is capable of exploring both.
 
I agree about magic being neutral. I don't think magic is either good or bad; it all depends on the person using it and for what purpose.
I absolutely hated Dark Willow. I understood what the writers were doing and the subtext of the issues with her "addiction", but I really really hated it and it turned me off to the character of Willow altogether. It seems after she met Tara she was never the funny, quirky sweet girl I loved from the beginning and I hated that for her.
 
V
Vampire Slayer
I agree; magic is neutral, it's how you use it.
This is why I didn't like season 6 that much. I liked evil willow. I liked that magic was the outlet for her evil. However, I couldn't get past the feeling that this whole Willow Addiction thing was a PSA about not doing drugs. I sorta cheapened it for me I think.
 
i think of magic like the force in star wars. It is a neutral force but you can use it for good or for evil. In the case at the end of season 6 she was trying to use it for evil to destroy the world. Willow always had an addiction to magic and it was apparent in season 4 and continued to grow all the way through season 6. She was addicted to having things done easily and when Tara tried to anchor her down Willow left her behind and took magic over Tara. It was at that point that I think she began to use magic for evil.
 
Mumrik
Mumrik
Love the Force comparison. :)
I agree with most of you on this. The magic is neutral and than somebody chooses to use it for evil or good. Willow's addiction was like a drug addiction, but she still takes some of the blame. Choosing magic over Tara? She could have made the right choice there, but she felt as though she had lost control. So I don't blame it on "black magic", I blame it on Willow making the wrong choices at the beginning that turned it into an addiction.
Oh and Dark Willow kicks butt. 🙂
 
Willow first magic was the recreation of gypsy vengeance/curse spell on Angel. And killing "Bambi" to revive Buffy was definitely black magic.
 
ubi4soft said:
Willow first magic was the recreation of gypsy vengeance/curse spell on Angel. And killing "Bambi" to revive Buffy was definitely black magic.
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That's very arguable. Is hunting deer also considered bad, or equal to what you deem as black magic? In some people's opinions, yes. But both are done for what is usually a good purpose.

Willow is trying to save Buffy, and hunters, although not usually, are trying to eat.
 
Willow-Tree said:
That's very arguable. Is hunting deer also considered bad, or equal to what you deem as black magic? In some people's opinions, yes. But both are done for what is usually a good purpose.

Willow is trying to save Buffy, and hunters, although not usually, are trying to eat.
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I don't think you can just parallel that with killing animals to eat them. That's a natural thing to do... while bringing back the dead from their graves is about as unnatural as it gets. And I've said it before, I'll say it again: The "saving Buffy" part is a pile of, um, male bovine excrement. The Scoobies' logic (read: Willow's logic, as she's become the forceful leader over that summer) in "Bargaining" is seriously flawed, and it's all coming from Willow's refusal to deal with loss and "taking the easy way out" - magic. She's already quite muddled in the darkside then, not because the magic in itself were evil, but because she's already betraying an addictive mindset/personality there. (And that's what makes her such an interesting character, even after she's left her adorable geeky highschool self far, far behind at this point.)

Besides, I still think it's a major plot hole to have Tara go along with the plan.
 
There is a valid argument in comparing magic with hunting. If you consider spells, charms, and the like to be the implements that are used in the practice of magic, and firearms, bows, and other various devices to be the implements that are used to practice hunting, then the implements themselves are neither good nor evil in and of themselves. How they are used, whether responsibly and with restraint, or irresponsibly and indiscriminately is entirely at the control of the user. Therefore, it isn't the gun or the spell that can logically be blamed for the end result. The gun doesn't make the shooter a killer any more than the spell makes the caster evil. Both are simply extentions of the user's will and sense of restraint.
 
I agree with many about magic. For Willow it was about control. I always use Warren as a contraversial comparison. Both were bullied in school and both of them use their talents not only for esteem but also control.

Willow uses magic to control events around her, in some cases control people (Tara). As people have said, because the root issue wasn't dealt with, she became addicted to the power that magic gave her. For her to give up that feeling was more frightening than going to far with it.
 
InsaneMystic said:
I don't think you can just parallel that with killing animals to eat them. That's a natural thing to do... while bringing back the dead from their graves is about as unnatural as it gets. And I've said it before, I'll say it again: The "saving Buffy" part is a pile of, um, male bovine excrement. The Scoobies' logic (read: Willow's logic, as she's become the forceful leader over that summer) in "Bargaining" is seriously flawed, and it's all coming from Willow's refusal to deal with loss and "taking the easy way out" - magic. She's already quite muddled in the darkside then, not because the magic in itself were evil, but because she's already betraying an addictive mindset/personality there. (And that's what makes her such an interesting character, even after she's left her adorable geeky highschool self far, far behind at this point.)

Besides, I still think it's a major plot hole to have Tara go along with the plan.
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I agree; I always thought, given Tara's reaction to Willow's use of magic later in the show, that Willow using magic to bring Buffy back would have definitely made Tara put her foot down with her. I mean, see how she reacted when Dawn wanted to bring Joyce back in S5? So why should her reaction be different for Buffy?
 
I
InsaneMystic
my thoughts exactly, I had those very same scenes in mind when I wrote it. :)
HisMrs said:
I agree; I always thought, given Tara's reaction to Willow's use of magic later in the show, that Willow using magic to bring Buffy back would have definitely made Tara put her foot down with her. I mean, see how she reacted when Dawn wanted to bring Joyce back in S5? So why should her reaction be different for Buffy?
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Well, Dawn and Buffy are two completely different people... 😛

Kidding aside, What would anyone do in a situation where their best friend and/or leader died? Obviously, at first, you would act rash.

Also, I think this was a necessary step for Willow's character development.
 
I'd have to say that after season six, I stopped liking Willow because she had lost so much of what made her, her. The quirky quiet girl, was replaced by this personality that I did not like at all.
About the magic issue. I think that there is bad magic out there, but I also think that it is the way you use it that makes it evil too. Willow was very weak minded, unlike Buffy, so I guess thats why she succumbed to the dark magic like she did...
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
[No message]
It was not the Magik's that caused Willow's addiction, but her constant misuse and blatant disregard of its effects. In short, she never saw the danger signals that were telling her she had a problem.

She behaved like many addicts do, by ignoring the facts and instead trying to feed her addiction, by any means possible.
Willow was hurting herself, and others, by refusing help from Tara, Giles, et all.

Alyson should have got an award for her portrayal of a young person, struggling with her own personal demons. In her case addiction to magic.

Ultimately, the outcome led to her losing control and breaking down into Buffy's arms.
The damage she caused was extreme, nearly costing Dawn her life. But she got through it, by admiting she had a problem, and thus allowing her friends to help her recover.

I also feel that magic, be it White or Dark, is only as dangerous as those who wield it.

In essence it is only the person who is Dark, as in Dark Willow, or White as in Goddess Willow.
 
I absolutely hated Dark Willow. I understood what the writers were doing and the subtext of the issues with her "addiction", but I really really hated it and it turned me off to the character of Willow altogether.
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I don't hate "Dark" Willow. I saw her actions of S6 as a culmination of her misuse of magic in previous seasons.
 
You have to admit if you had magical powers, you'd use them all the time too and this is where will went wrong. She was using her magick to do certain tasks (decorating the house) that it wasnt meant to be for. Willow also was an inferior character in seasons 1-4 so its understandable that she used a lot of power in seasons 5 and 6. She wasnt used to having power so she used whenever and whereever she could.
 
Problem for Willow during this period in her life is that before magic and Buffy she was a nobody, picked on by Cordie and only wanted for her brains. Even Xander was only a friend at the end of the day and she loved him. So, when someone comes along who really loves her who she really is and then taken away, well I think that I would flip as well and go all out for revenge.
 
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