Willow and Raising the Dead

[Chosen Enemy]

After Joyce died, Dawn wanted her back, and Willow helped her. It seems as though she didn't think about the results that were clear to others (besides Dawn). Dawn almost had it done, and it was so close to being a huge mistake (if Dawn hand't tore out the photograph).

After Buffy died, Willow messed with life and death matter again. Even though it was made clear to her after Joyce's case. Why is that that after she realized that helping Dawn rise her mother (by Tara) is a terrible thing that could create chaos, why did she do it again? How's that any different? Was it even clear to her that it might create chaos, THIS TIME AS WELL?

(I'm not opening a thread about Willow bringing Buffy back to life, this is not about Buffy or anyone else from the gang, it's about Willow only)

 

[PassionBecoming]

Willow just wasn't thinking things through in the state of grief she was in. Which doesn't make her meddling ok at all! This is just kind of the epitome of her addiction to trying to make the world how she wants it through magic (de-lusting spell, her will be done spell, etc.) She just doesn't want to go through anything she doesn't like, so her first reaction is to use magic to make it go away.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

She was selfish. They all were. She was just the only one with power.

 

[VisionGirl]

And she would've raised Tara if she could have, too.

I think it's the ultimate in power... control over life and death.

 

[Goby]

OMG... what is this... International Bash Willow Week??

So someone murders your soulmate, and you happen to know a little magic, and you're not going to try to resurrect them? I would.

The greatest slayer of them all, and your best friend, dies, and you're not going to try to resurrect them? I would.

She's not an addict. She's not selfish. She's not mentally ill. She's Willow, and I would have done exactly the same.

 

[KellGreen]

For some reason, i recall Willow warning Dawn not to - that it wouldn't be her mom anymore, and that it was Spike who helped her and took her to the doc😕

I agree that bringing Buffy back was not the best thing to do, but it was well-intentioned. Willow (and i think the others) truly believed that Buffy was in a bad place, and i don't know if there was some kind of spell Willow could have done to locate where she was to confirm whether she was in a Hell dimension or a Heaven dimension. I just think it never really occurred to any of them that she could be in a better place. Yes, it was a bit selfish, but if you jump into Willow's shoes, it does seem like the right thing to do. Faith was not fulfilling her slayer duties, so on a large scale, it was right and under her belief that Buffy was being tortured/tormented wherever she was, it was what a best friend would do.

 

[PassionBecoming]

OMG... what is this... International Bash Willow Week??

So someone murders your soulmate, and you happen to know a little magic, and you're not going to try to resurrect them? I would.

The greatest slayer of them all, and your best friend, dies, and you're not going to try to resurrect them? I would.

She's not an addict. She's not selfish. She's not mentally ill. She's Willow, and I would have done exactly the same.

No Willow-bashing, I like Willow, but she is DEFINITELY selfish and addicted to magic. When someone dies, they were meant to be dead. It was just their time. Bringing them back screws up the universe (as we see in S7) because that person is no longer supposed to be in it.

And look what happened to Buffy (and I'm sure would have happened if she had brought Tara back) - she was in a happy place and finally at peace. Her fighting was done, and Willow ripped her out of that place of peace simply because she didn't want to live without her. She had no thought at all to the consequences her actions would bring to the world.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I don't think that any of them really were thinking completely rationally. They were grieving, and they missed their loved ones. They wanted them back, and of course they would do anything it took to get them back. Willow had power, and she wanted to use that power to do things that other people could not.
In the case of Joyce, she didn't quite realize how catastrophic the results could have been. She gave Dawn a book that was obviously full of dark spells, because it brought back a zombie Joyce. By the time we saw her bring Buffy back in "Bargaining", she had obviously come a long way and had researched it a lot more carefully and she was able to pull it off successfully, although she definitely caused Buffy a lot of mental grief.

 

[PassionBecoming]

I don't think that any of them really were thinking completely rationally. They were grieving, and they missed their loved ones. They wanted them back, and of course they would do anything it took to get them back. Willow had power, and she wanted to use that power to do things that other people could not.
In the case of Joyce, she didn't quite realize how catastrophic the results could have been. She gave Dawn a book that was obviously full of dark spells, because it brought back a zombie Joyce. By the time we saw her bring Buffy back in "Bargaining", she had obviously come a long way and had researched it a lot more carefully and she was able to pull it off successfully, although she definitely caused Buffy a lot of mental grief.

Yeeessss, but...just because they were feeling a certain emotion, doesn't mean it's ok to act foolishly. Buffy was in love with Angel; was it ok for her to not tell her friends he came back from Hell? Joyce was angry at Buffy; was it ok for her to tell her not to ever come back home? Riley felt inadequate and lonely; was it ok for him to get bitten by vamps?

This could go on and on and on with ALL the characters in this series. Just because you are experiencing certain emotions doesn't mean you aren't responsible for your actions. Which isn't to say every person hasn't done something irrational or not thought-out while in some stage of hightened emotion.

To me it boils down to: "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD."

 

[zobothehobo]

I think it's a case of Willow thinking "it's possible... let's fix it." She's a "fixer." When Joyce dies, she tries to help Dawn fix it. When Buffy dies, she fixes it. When Tara dies, she tries to fix it. When she can't do that, she goes dark and into the tantrum of the century. Then Giles doeses her with "good" magic and she can feel everyone's pain and she tries to fix it by killing everyone. She's a "fixer." And she had the power, and it was possible... so she did it.

 

[Taake]

OMG... what is this... International Bash Willow Week?

Lol, no but she certainly made some magic-related mistakes. 🙂

I can see why she wanted to raise Buffy and Tara, though;

The greatest slayer of them all, and your best friend, dies, and you're not going to try to resurrect them? I would.

I'm sure there's been many Slayer's before the Buffster whose Watchers (or friends if perhaps they had any, unlikely though it seems) thought they were the greatest Slayer of them all. Doesn't make them more than mortal. Same goes for our girl Buff, and to quote another tv-series I'll say "what's dead should stay dead"

So someone murders your soulmate, and you happen to know a little magic, and you're not going to try to resurrect them? I would.

She's not an addict. She's not selfish. She's not mentally ill. She's Willow, and I would have done exactly the same.

But wouldn't you agree that it is the very height of hubris to think that you yourself should have the power to decide over life and death?

No matter the nobility behind her reasons - yes, Willow was selfish - do I love her for it? Yes I do, because I didn't want to see either Buffy or Tara 6 feet under.

Can I still say that it was wrong? Messing with the natural order of things? Of course!
She also took countless risks in the process, not being really sure of what she was doing, what she was bringing back or where she was bringing it back from. It is just reckless.

But basically I think it was Willow's way of dealing with the grief. Like [MENTION=10363]zobothehobo[/MENTION] said, she's a fixer. She wanted to end her grief, and those around her, by making things right. Ignoring in the process that it wasn't necessarily her place to do so.
But I still love Willow, and I won't judge her for that.


Now, as for her giving the book to Dawn to help her to raise Joyce - that is one of my single most shocking Willow-moments - and something I will never forgive her for. What on earth was she thinking giving a book of the dark arts to a grief stricken 14 year old? Reckless doesn't even begin to cover it! I get mad just thinking about it! (what if Dawn hadn't ripped up the picture, huh? Who would have had to deal with what was brought back by dark magic? Buffy no doubt.... imagine the trauma that would have brought to the Summers girls. All because of Willow's inability to respect the laws of nature and giving a sad girl some time to just be...)

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

it was a different spell though as well. Joyce was kind of zombie-fied due o her being naturally killed. Buffy wasnt a natural death so ok it could have gone horrendously wrong but i got the impression if done right it wasnt such a risk..in a way..

 

[Goby]

Lol, no but she certainly made some magic-related mistakes. 🙂

I can see why she wanted to raise Buffy and Tara, though;


I'm sure there's been many Slayer's before the Buffster whose Watchers (or friends if perhaps they had any, unlikely though it seems) thought they were the greatest Slayer of them all. Doesn't make them more than mortal. Same goes for our girl Buff, and to quote another tv-series I'll say "what's dead should stay dead"




But wouldn't you agree that it is the very height of hubris to think that you yourself should have the power to decide over life and death?

No matter the nobility behind her reasons - yes, Willow was selfish - do I love her for it? Yes I do, because I didn't want to see either Buffy or Tara 6 feet under.

Can I still say that it was wrong? Messing with the natural order of things? Of course!
She also took countless risks in the process, not being really sure of what she was doing, what she was bringing back or where she was bringing it back from. It is just reckless.

But basically I think it was Willow's way of dealing with the grief. Like [MENTION=10363]zobothehobo[/MENTION] said, she's a fixer. She wanted to end her grief, and those around her, by making things right. Ignoring in the process that it wasn't necessarily her place to do so.
But I still love Willow, and I won't judge her for that.


Now, as for her giving the book to Dawn to help her to raise Joyce - that is one of my single most shocking Willow-moments - and something I will never forgive her for. What on earth was she thinking giving a book of the dark arts to a grief stricken 14 year old? Reckless doesn't even begin to cover it! I get mad just thinking about it! (what if Dawn hadn't ripped up the picture, huh? Who would have had to deal with what was brought back by dark magic? Buffy no doubt.... imagine the trauma that would have brought to the Summers girls. All because of Willow's inability to respect the laws of nature and giving a sad girl some time to just be...)

Taake, that was another brilliant response.

However, as Willow's defender and apologist, I still do not believe she should be blamed.

You and I have a benefit of kicking back at home, drinking a beer and eating cheese and crackers while watching BtVS. Willow was in the thick of battle, learning about magic without proper supervision, and dealing with the emotions of losing her best friend and her best friend's kid sister losing her mum.

Taake, it's time to let go of your anger towards Willow and her ignorance. There was no malice when she tried to raise Joyce. She was trying to help a young child who was mourning the loss of her mother.

Remember what you fellow Scandinavian said: "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

Willow has a great heart, but she, like everyone else, has made mistakes. It's time to forgive.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

Willow brought her back because Joss Whedon told her to.

 

[Willow My Love]

The world needed Buffy, and there was cause to bring her back. She didn't die naturally. And the book she pointed out to Dawn was a history book. It didn't have actual spells, but it mentioned the books in which to find them. I think Willow was trying to help Dawn realize that she couldn't bring her mother back. I don't think she meant to give Dawn the keys to zombie motherness.

As far as Buffy's concerned, the world did need Buffy. The world needs a Slayer, and god knows it's not Faith. I think it was that, and Willow's constant need to make people happy that made her bring Buffy back. That, and how would they continue Buffy the Vampire Slayer without Buffy?

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Willow tried to do good, she probably wanted others to do good, she saw the best in others. Unfortunately with the best she saw in others came the crap.
Some folk tried to help Willow, but they all did it wrong: Amy, Tara, Giles.
Amy tried to get Willow to do anything she wanted, leading Willow away from being herself. And allowing Amy to have a playmate who thought as she did.
Tara tried to get Willow to follow her in much the same way as Amy, but in another direction. But it still wasn't where Willow was heading. Tara wanted a playmate as well.
When Willow went dark and the evil took control it was all about showing everyone who is boss. Then Giles interrupted the proceedings.
Giles gave Willow that little bit of good. Shame there was no one to tell or show Willow how to deal with it; result, Willow saw everyone's pain and tried to stop their pain. Permanently. So who was responsible for Willow trying to end the world? Not the evil 'cos the evil wanted to take control. The coven and Giles were ultimately responsible. Willow had good and evil magic and no one to teach her the control them.
Willow wasn't about helping others to be a better person, another person.
Willow was about helping that person be a better them.
And when Willow did get it right, by herself? What was said to her? You, are a Goddess.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

i dont think Willow did get it right by herself. Giles started off by trying to father Willow tell her off which wasnt what she wanted.Willow got it right because Giles and the coven taught her what real magic was, natural magic. by herself Willow abused it and used it to take shortcuts in everything. Giles and the coven gave her that bit of magic to give her a bit of her humantiy back, its why Xander could talk her down because she started to empathise again really.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

True, but the thing I saw, Willow never tried to end the world, the evil was all about fighting the slayer.
It was only after Giles and the coven gave the bit of humanity that dark Willow made a start on ending the world.
Giles and the coven should've known better. The humans have been doing a bang up job of inadvertantly destroying the world. So, when magic is put into the equation they should have been there to help Xander.
Ever wodered how Xander knew where to go? Or how he got from the graveyard to the temple?