Willow and Xander, the gay thing

[ChaseRules]

Well................that explains a lot .

 

[Mr Trick]

Agreed. Willow's relationship with Tara doesn't immediately discount her relationship with Oz. It's clear that Willow did identify as straight originally and since meeting Tara, she no longer identifies with being straight, but as for the classification of that sexuality, I think it's moot. She loved Oz, she loved Tara. It's not a chicken or fish decision, whereas you can't like both and have to choose one for the rest of your life. Her relationships with both were real and one doesn't diminish the other.

It annoys me when people do discount her relationship with Oz because "she's a lesbian now so she can't have loved him". You love who you love, regardless of gender.

That's true, you love who you love, but if you love both men and women, then you are bi.

Spot on @Athena and that is just the point which the girl off dusted made when reviewing New Moon Rising. @Buffy Summers and the point is people are too obsessed with giving characters labels. Fact is Willow, was in love with Oz as a person, and she was in love with Tara as a person. The important thing is that she was still Willow when she was in both relationships, and that is how fans should identify her, not as lesbian, striaght, or bi. Labels don't matter, its about the character or in a real context the person, that's how anyone should be defined not through sexuality.

 

[ChaseRules]

Willow had enough love that she was able to give it to more than one person & she did . That why she was in love with Oz & then with Tara.

 

[Sternbeeere]

I do read Xander as bisexual throughout the series, it is not only his constant comments about guys looks it is about his whole behaviour. He has a lovehate thing for Spike and he is fond of Dracula, even going so far as making him compliments. And Xander is part of the Slayer organisation, who is referred to as soldier, thus he would not be the typical gay/bi stereotype.
Also i generally think that, despite the fact that i hate labels, the show needs to have more bi-/pansexual characters for the sake of visibility.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

In my opinion they did have a bi character: Willow. 😉

 

[Sternbeeere]

In my opinion they did have a bi character: Willow. 😉

Yes, but they made her identify as gay and seen by other characters as gay, which either means bisexual erasure, or that there should be an other clearly bisexual character, who identifies as such.
Again I want to point out that identification is a personal matter, but Willow is a fictional character, something for representation. And in terms of representation they failed at addressing the Bi- Pan-sexual fluidity issue in her by making her lesbian. Though of course, at the time the series was made, her and Taras relationship WAS quite revolutionary.

 

[GoSpuffy]

Sure they could... but they wouldn't. I don't think the writers would have room for it. He would have had something going on with his love interest that pulled away his Buffy 'man of the house' story. You cant be gay and 'normal' on Buffy. Your gayness IS your story.

can anyone be "normal" on buffy?

 

[Priceless]

Yes, but they made her identify as gay and seen by other characters as gay, which either means bisexual erasure, or that there should be an other clearly bisexual character, who identifies as such.
Again I want to point out that identification is a personal matter, but Willow is a fictional character, something for representation. And in terms of representation they failed at addressing the Bi- Pan-sexual fluidity issue in her by making her lesbian. Though of course, at the time the series was made, her and Taras relationship WAS quite revolutionary.

Do you read the comics? Buffy is bi, she had a relationship with Satsu

 

[ChaseRules]

I would have liked seeing Willow having a slight crush on Buffy . That would have sown that she was bi & left the door open .

 

[Sternbeeere]

Do you read the comics? Buffy is bi, she had a relationship with Satsu

Not really, Willow said that Buffy is not gay and thus cannot love Satsu, also I read that Joss Whedon said, that she is just experimenting "being young and open minded".
Both statements are cliches that are again used to bash against bisexuals and make them appear non-existent. Being a bisexual myself, those kind of statements made me sad somehow

 

[Priceless]

Not really, Willow said that Buffy is not gay and thus cannot love Satsu, also I read that Joss Whedon said, that she is just experimenting "being young and open minded".
Both statements are cliches that are again used to bash against bisexuals and make them appear non-existent. Being a bisexual myself, those kind of statements made me sad somehow

Who is Willow to tell anyone what their sexuality is? 🙂 Buffy may not have loved Satsu, but she had sex with her and enjoyed it, therefore she is bi. Wasn't it Satsu who finished the relationship, so it seemed Buffy was pretty happy. Who is to say that Buffy may not either have sex with or fall in love with another girl? (I hope not of course because I'm Spuffy4ever, but it could happen 😉)

 

[Sternbeeere]

Who is Willow to tell anyone what their sexuality is? 🙂 Buffy may not have loved Satsu, but she had sex with her and enjoyed it, therefore she is bi. Wasn't it Satsu who finished the relationship, so it seemed Buffy was pretty happy. Who is to say that Buffy may not either have sex with or fall in love with another girl? (I hope not of course because I'm Spuffy4ever, but it could happen 😉)

Well, agreed on that. Still, in Buffyverse the portrayal of Bisexuality/Pansexuality remains problematic. But so it is in many television series, including even Orange is the New Black, where a bisexual character is referred to as former lesbian.

 

[Priceless]

Well, agreed on that. Still, in Buffyverse the portrayal of Bisexuality/Pansexuality remains problematic. But so it is in many television series, including even Orange is the New Black, where a bisexual character is referred to as former lesbian.

The only shows I can think of with a character that identifies themselves as bi sexual is My Crazy Ex Girlfriend, and maybe Transparent. Which is pretty poor isn't it? I do think tv audiences class characters as bi/pan sexual even if the characters don't . . . but you are right, there ought to be more self-identifying bi characters

 

[nightshade]

Who is Willow to tell anyone what their sexuality is? 🙂 Buffy may not have loved Satsu, but she had sex with her and enjoyed it, therefore she is bi. Wasn't it Satsu who finished the relationship, so it seemed Buffy was pretty happy. Who is to say that Buffy may not either have sex with or fall in love with another girl? (I hope not of course because I'm Spuffy4ever, but it could happen 😉)

She doesn't necessarily have to be bi just because she and sex with one female, many people experiment and wouldn't class themselves as anything other than straight.

 

[Priceless]

She doesn't necessarily have to be bi just because she and sex with one female, many people experiment and wouldn't class themselves as anything other than straight.

I agree. I would say it is what the person involved identifies themselves as, not what others say their sexuality is, so it's not up to Willow to tell Buffy that she is or is not gay/bi/pan etc. In tough Love Willow was upset with Tara when she believed Tara was suggesting Willow was bisexual and would go back to dating men. 🙂

But I would also say, as tv viewers, we tend to make our own minds up, based on our own personal bias, what a characters sexuality is.

 

[Sternbeeere]

I agree. I would say it is what the person involved identifies themselves as, not what others say their sexuality is, so it's not up to Willow to tell Buffy that she is or is not gay/bi/pan etc. In tough Love Willow was upset with Tara when she believed Tara was suggesting Willow was bisexual and would go back to dating men. 🙂

But I would also say, as tv viewers, we tend to make our own minds up, based on our own personal bias, what a characters sexuality is.

Yeah agree on everything. Also from what you mention, Tara displays pan/bi phobia.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

The only shows I can think of with a character that identifies themselves as bi sexual is My Crazy Ex Girlfriend, and maybe Transparent. Which is pretty poor isn't it? I do think tv audiences class characters as bi/pan sexual even if the characters don't . . . but you are right, there ought to be more self-identifying bi characters

There was Chasing Life where Brenna was bi. Although, she did state before that she didn't like to identify/label her sexuality. Also there's the obvious one of Piper from Orange is the New Black.

 

[ChaseRules]

Who is Willow to tell anyone what their sexuality is? 🙂 Buffy may not have loved Satsu, but she had sex with her and enjoyed it, therefore she is bi. Wasn't it Satsu who finished the relationship, so it seemed Buffy was pretty happy. Who is to say that Buffy may not either have sex with or fall in love with another girl? (I hope not of course because I'm Spuffy4ever, but it could happen 😉)

It could also be that Willow is unknowingly mad at Buffy for being with another girl & never thinking about Willow . Buffy had sex with Satsu & loved it
but I think that Willow first thought was someone cast a spell on Buffy because she never came on to me or even told me she was gay .

 

[Sternbeeere]

It could also be that Willow is unknowingly mad at Buffy for being with another girl & never thinking about Willow . Buffy had sex with Satsu & loved it
but I think that Willow first thought was someone cast a spell on Buffy because she never came on to me or even told me she was gay .

Interesting interpretation, did not think of that

 

[ChaseRules]

Thanks . I thought that Willow would leap to Magic since she uses it so much & also is very possive of Buffy.