Willow: Gay, Bi or... ?

NotASlayer

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Willow in the show said she was "Gay now" but Joss apparently (I only have this as third party quotes) said this was forced on him by the network (No Bisexuals!) and would have had her as bi. This has cropped up in other threads, so, what do you read her as?

For me, I think she's bi, possibly skewed towards women. She had a crush on Giles, and not in a merely found him attractive in a general way. The same with Xander; she clearly liked him, and would have been romantically involved. With Oz, she had a relationship she enjoyed, not just a pro forma one, and she enjoyed sex with him. So, for me, bi, not gay, even if she never was with another guy.

How do you see her?
 
While I don't see sexuality as a straightjacket (so it's possible to have a straight or gay crush even if that is not normal for one's self), she was far too in love with Oz.

Speaking as a lesbian, I also had boyfriends in school. But beyond curiosity there was no drive for even smoochies (as I think Willow calls them) and we were basically just good friends. And though a male could hurt me the way a friend could, they could never break my heart as Oz did Willow, nor could I be tempted to cheat (at least not with a male). At least all the lesbians I compared notes with said similar things (maybe with a desperate desire to "become straight by faking it till she makes it").

She was definitely bi while Tara was lesbian. And I think labeling Willow gay badly distorts what she had with Oz.
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Yes, there was a reason why I had "or..." because otherwise it's far too binary.
I tend to be less focused on subtext when analyzing characters sexuality. So I go by what is shown on screen.

In show, Willow dates both men and women and seems to be happy in either situation. I believe she is bi.
 
Okay, here's what you are asking.

When Joss hired Aly, he told her that Willow needed to be played with some homosexual tendencies, and hired her an acting coach to help her craft the performance to reflect this? No, I don't think that was the case.
 
Another vote for Willow being bisexual. She had sexual relationships with both Oz and Tara (and probably Kennedy), so she has demonstrated her proclivity to go in either direction. And she was the one who pushed Oz into sex, she was not responding to his desires.
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Definitely with Kennedy - the my girlfriend has a tongue piercing comment - and, most importantly when it comes to Oz, enjoyed it.
I think Willow is a bisexual who just found that she liked the company of other girls better, once she recognized that facet of her sexuality. I don't think that's what the writers meant for her to be, but it's definitely in the canon that she sincerely loved Oz, and had a real crush on Xander. I think if the show were being made today, they wouldn't have tried to pass her off as a lesbian who just didn't realize it until college.
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Yes, she doesn't really fit the profile of someone who didn't know, because her relationship with Oz was genuine. Joss did apparently say he would have made her bi if he could.
I definitely see Willow as bi. It pissed me off that the writers deminished her relationship with Oz by declaring that she was "gay now", as if it's a choose someone just wakes up one day and decides. Obviously Willow was deeply in love with Oz at one point, and it is possible to be able to love more than one sex. I think Willow was bi, while Tara was a lesbian, and while Willow may have preferred women, I definitely see her as bisexual.
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
To be fair, it seems to be the fault of the network, not the writers.
I believe if the series was made today, or if studio execs didn't have a say when the series was being made at the time, Willow would definitely identify as bisexual.

She was in love with Xander for years. She had a big crush on Giles. She was flattered when Spike said he wanted to bite her/found her attractive. She was in a serious relationship with Oz.
 
I recently saw POTN's review of New Moon Rising. I got the impression that Willow still had feelings for Oz, or at least, the episode wanted me to believe there was a chance Willow could... sigh, go either way. So, bisexual, but with the understanding that these are all fictional characters who aren't written consistently and can be anything the writers want them to be. This is not including S7, where hooking up with the first woman she meets seems to be the only option available for her. I mean, litterally, that's what happens.

This hasn't been brought up, but could she had magicked herself gay? I mean, if you can turn yourself into a rat or a girl, or a demon, then yes, probably. I mean, if any character goes full Mr. Sinister, it's her.
 
T
thrasherpix
Amy caused a woman at the Bronze to turn gay (at least uncontrollably attracted to Willow) so it was apparently a thing you could do.
This hasn't been brought up, but could she had magicked herself gay? I mean, if you can turn yourself into a rat or a girl, or a demon, then yes, probably. I mean, if any character goes full Mr. Sinister, it's her.
I'm reminded in s7 that Xander asked Willow to make him gay.
"I'm going gay. I've decided I'm turning gay. Willow, gay me up. Come on, let's gay!"
 
This is something that I can see both sides of the debate on. She loved Oz, no doubt about it, and is not openly regretful of her past romantic & sexual attractions, and occasionally jokingly references them. However, looking at her dreams in 'Restless', she seems to have a fear of her 'outfit' reverting to her school one, and there's a subtext that she equates her lesbian identity with her 'mature persona, hence she thinks of herself as *not* being bi.

I'm friends with someone whose girlfriend went through a similar trajectory, so it doesn't seem too jarring to me - unlike the melodramatic end to season 6, which fell into the 'dead lesbian/angry grieving lesbian' trope a bit too heavily!
 
This is something that I can see both sides of the debate on. She loved Oz, no doubt about it, and is not openly regretful of her past romantic & sexual attractions, and occasionally jokingly references them. However, looking at her dreams in 'Restless', she seems to have a fear of her 'outfit' reverting to her school one, and there's a subtext that she equates her lesbian identity with her 'mature persona, hence she thinks of herself as *not* being bi.

I'm friends with someone whose girlfriend went through a similar trajectory, so it doesn't seem too jarring to me - unlike the melodramatic end to season 6, which fell into the 'dead lesbian/angry grieving lesbian' trope a bit too heavily!
This is how I view it. Sexual identities evolve, especially back when we were all supposed to be straight. It often takes meeting "the one" to shatter our confusion - that or becoming comfortable in our skin.

Had i grown up now, i am sure i would have dated around the genders freely. Not because I am a slut but bc my heart and my physical attraction belongs to a person not a gender.

I knew all along I was attracted to both genders. As someone in the church at the time, i had a hard time allowing myself same sex friendships. It was too confusing. As i am kind of androgynous, i also had little in common with legislated femininity as presented by the church - so could not relate to many women in church.

So it was years in recovery and comfort in my skin and being with two men (one of whom died) who i freely told i was attracted to women...

Then someone insulted my late god father, said it was a pity he had been gay, what a waste of a nice man...

And i came right out of my little closet:

"Well, mom, if he was a waste, i guess i am too..."

"But, but, but... Youre not a lesbian!!!!?" She said in horror.

"No, I am bisexual."

That is how I finally stopped saying, "well, i am straight but I know the kind of women i find attractive."

I have always been bisexual. At some point i became comfortable with it. Finally, I actually had words for who I am (remember when i grew up, 'homos' & 'dykes' were bad news - bi people were slutty and or confused and not trustworthy.)

I may never be involved with a woman again because I am married and monogamous. Were i to at some point marry a woman, i would be monogamous too. Casual sex isnt for me. Would this make me either straight or lesbian? No. I am who i am.

While i play with Willow's sexuality in fanfic - (and Xander, Giles and other people's sexuality), I believe CANON Willow is a lesbian because she says so and because at no point does she show further interest in men.

She loved Oz, probably always will. They have a deep and real connection. Just like quite a few lesbians and gay men I have known who married the opposite sex for a variety of reasons having little to do with being straight.

Those whose spouses did not know before hand are often angry and justifiably feel lied to... Some forgive and stay friends, some don't. Those who always knew their spouse was gay or probably gay tend to be more accepting to begin with. There can be a lot of love there. Love is not neat or tidy. Neither is sexuality.

Btw, i have a theory why Willow did not date in high school. She did not act 'attracted' and boys did not see her as a potential partner. People reach out to people who they are attracted to AND those they think may be attracted to them too.

Oz was first attracted to her from a distance - because of who she seemed to be (a girl bold enough to wear an eskimo suit). He got to know her (career day) because of their shared intelligence. So he was not looking for the traditional cues...

After she cheated, Oz may have stayed because she knew he was a werewolf and that was uncomplicated. Until Veruca.

I think she may have been attracted to Xander because he was safe and Willow needed heterosexual self-validation... That attraction and dalliance does not make as much sense until after we know she is lesbian.

Yes, as a bisexual woman, part of me wishes she was bi. But that is not what i see.
 
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This is how I view it. Sexual identities evolve, especially back when we were all supposed to be straight. It often takes meeting "the one" to shatter our confusion - that or becoming comfortable in our skin.

Had i grown up now, i am sure i would have dated around the genders freely. Not because I am a slut but bc my heart and my physical attraction belongs to a person not a gender.

I knew all along I was attracted to both genders. As someone in the church at the time, ihad a hard time allowing myself same sex friendships. It was too confusing. And as i am kind of androgynous, i had little in common with legislated femininity as presented by the church - so could not relate toany women in church.

So it was years in recovery and comfort in my skin and being with two men who i freely told i was attracted to women... Then someone insulted my late god father, said it was a pity he had been gay,what a waste of a nice man... And i came right out of my little closet:

"Well, mom, if he was a waste, i guess i am too..."

"But, but, but... Youre not a lesbian!!!!?" She said in horror.

"No, I am bisexual."

That is how I finally stopped saying, "well, i am straight but I know the kind of women i find attractive."

I have always been bisexual. At some point i became comfortable with it. Finally, iI actually had words for who I am (remember when i grew up, 'homos' & 'dykes' were bad news.)

I may never be involved with a woman again because I am married and monogamous. Were i to at some point marry a woman, i would be monogamous too. Casual sex isnt for me. Would this make me either straight or lesbian? No. I am who i am.

While i play with Willow's sexuality in fanfic - (and Xander, Giles and other people's sexuality, I believe CANON Willow is a lesbian because she says so and because at no point does she show further interest in men.

She loved Oz, probably always will. They have a deep and real connection. Just like quite a few lesbians and gayen I have known who married the opposite sex for a variety of reasons having little to do with being straight.

Those whose spouses did not know before hand are often angry and justifiably feel lied to... Some forgive and stay friends, some don't. Those who always knew their spouse was gay por probably gay tend to be more accepting to begin with. Tjere can be a lot of love there. Love is not neat or tidy. Neither is sexuality.

Btw, i have a theory why Willow did not date in high school. She did not act 'attracted' and boys did not see her as a potential partner. People reach out to people who they are attracted to AND those they think may be attracted to them too.

Oz was first attracted to her from a distance - because of who she seemed to be (a girl bold enough to wear an eskimo suit). He got to know her (career day) because of their shared intelligence. So he was not looking for the traditional cues...

After she cheated, Oz may have stayed because she knew he was a werewolf and that was uncomplicated. Until Veruca.

I think she may have been attracted to Xander because he was safe and needed heterosexual self-validation... That attraction and dalliance does not make as much sense until after we know she is lesbian.

Yes, as a bisexual, part of me wishes she was bi. But that is not what i see.
I'm glad you have happiness - I think oddly one thing that hasn't changed for bisexual people is the judgment made by some about settling down with one partner of either birth gender!

The impressive thing about Btvs was how Willow's self-discovery was explored so well, whatever I think about the fallout from Dark Willow.
 
I'm glad you have happiness - I think oddly one thing that hasn't changed for bisexual people is the judgment made by some about settling down with one partner of either birth gender!

The impressive thing about Btvs was how Willow's self-discovery was explored so well, whatever I think about the fallout from Dark Willow.
It was the first time I saw non straight people like me and my friends loving and living life in a show that was not "about queerness". I am grateful for the queer cinema, theatre and media at the time. At that time on mainstream TV, lesbian kisses were two straight women looking awkward during "sweeps" week - to get eyeballs on tvs. Tara and Willow felt real... And they are so pretty! (But not in a 'just hot to get the hetero men hot' way)
 
The crucial thing for me is how Willow acts to Oz in New Moon Rising. She certainly seems to still be interested in Oz, and might well have got back together with him if the wolf had really been under control. Clearly her feelings for Tara complicated this, but Willow seemed to like them both. So Willow is bi.
 
so, what she says, and how she lives for the rest of canon are irrelevant?

Yes, let us ignore what people say about who they are. let us ignore their life choices. Because their opinion of their own lives does not matter. Not one bit.
Ultimately, I see it as bad writing, probably in large part to how bisexuals were stigmatized back then.

If Willow was a real person, of course I'd go along with what she says. However, Willow is a fictional person and we are shown things that contradict what is said.
 
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