Willow's reaction to Fred's death?

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Dagenspear

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Any ideas on what it could've been? I mean, she couldn't have been happy about it. She'd met Fred. She liked Fred. In more than a platonic friend way, if you know what I mean.

She must've been upset by it. Maybe even angry at Giles for allowing it and not contacting her when Angel asked for her help in Shells.

I can't see her NOT reacting badly to this.

What do you think?
 
Well, I don't think they were close enough for her to have a very long grief over her. She was probably sad, but after all they met only once. Yes, they had chemistery that I really liked, but she didn't really know her.
 
Chosen Enemy said:
Well, I don't think they were close enough for her to have a very long grief over her. She was probably sad, but after all they met only once. Yes, they had chemistery that I really liked, but she didn't really know her.
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I agree with this. I think too much is made of the Fred/Willow relationship. While I think it's possible that they might have kept in touch by phone, they were both really, really busy with their own relationships & dealing with their own apocalypses.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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VisionGirl said:
I agree with this. I think too much is made of the Fred/Willow relationship. While I think it's possible that they might have kept in touch by phone, they were both really, really busy with their own relationships & dealing with their own apocalypses.
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Oh, I hate your post!!! lol!

Here's why....

THE REALITY

Willow had witnessed hundreds of deaths by this time. She was hardened. Think about her reaction to Anya's death. But most important, when Fred died, she was evil. Remember what Andrew said to Angel a few episodes prior to her death... that Buffy didn't trust Angel because they were working for evil Wolfram & Hart. I really doubt that Willow gave Fred's death more than two seconds thought.

THE FANTASY

Of course Vision Girl is right, but who's heart didn't skip a beat when they first saw Willow and Fred together. And then seeing Fred flirt with Willow. Holy Cow!!! And then Willow liked it, and she was thinking certain "thoughts" when she remembered Kennedy back in Sunnydale. Then she said those three words that cause me to throw shoes, bottles, and knick-knacks at my TV every time I see it: "I'm seeing someone."

The thought of Frillow makes me lightheaded.... but the reality is there was never anything there. I'm not into fanfiction, but if I was, I'd be reading Frillow 24/7. 😛
 
Fred was not evil. I highly doubt Willow would be behind Buffy on that whole thing Andrew whined about on ANGEL. Willow understands these kind of issues, what needs to be done in the process of the good fight. She also understands that it isn't quite as simple as JUST being good or evil. Remember how down she was on Faith for all those seasons. Then she turned evil, and then suddenly, next time Faith and Willow meet, Willow's as friendly as can be to her, because she gets it now. Faith was never just straight up 'I was born bad.' Her experiences shaped her into that.

Willow would understand Angel joining Wolfram & Hart, and Fred and all the others as well. I don't think she'd judge them quite so quickly as Buffy would.

Also, I should really say that I never meant that there was anything more going with Willow and Fred than what we saw. I just meant that, Willow had met Fred, she liked her, and could probably tell that she was a decent person, and then she dies, and Angel calls Giles asking him to get a hold of Willow, and Giles just blows him off. He let an innocent girl die because he didn't like who she, or they, were affiliated with. Willow liked Fred, and I imagine, probably would've angry at Giles for doing such a thing, for allowing this person that she'd met and responded to, to die, for no other reason than just out of spite.

Now, I will say that I haven't ever really been into Frillow, so that wasn't really what this thread was about. Even though I'm loving the idea of them together more and more. It's really hard not to.
 
Dagenspear said:
Fred was not evil. I highly doubt Willow would be behind Buffy on that whole thing Andrew whined about on ANGEL. Willow understands these kind of issues, what needs to be done in the process of the good fight. She also understands that it isn't quite as simple as JUST being good or evil. Remember how down she was on Faith for all those seasons. Then she turned evil, and then suddenly, next time Faith and Willow meet, Willow's as friendly as can be to her, because she gets it now. Faith was never just straight up 'I was born bad.' Her experiences shaped her into that.

Willow would understand Angel joining Wolfram & Hart, and Fred and all the others as well. I don't think she'd judge them quite so quickly as Buffy would.

Also, I should really say that I never meant that there was anything more going with Willow and Fred than what we saw. I just meant that, Willow had met Fred, she liked her, and could probably tell that she was a decent person, and then she dies, and Angel calls Giles asking him to get a hold of Willow, and Giles just blows him off. He let an innocent girl die because he didn't like who she, or they, were affiliated with. Willow liked Fred, and I imagine, probably would've angry at Giles for doing such a thing, for allowing this person that she'd met and responded to, to die, for no other reason than just out of spite.

Now, I will say that I haven't ever really been into Frillow, so that wasn't really what this thread was about. Even though I'm loving the idea of them together more and more. It's really hard not to.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear.... Fred wasn't evil, but I bet to the Scoobies in Sunnydale she was evil. And I'm guessing Willow wasn't really into an evil or alleged evil physicist.

Frillow is an awesome ship that I was into the instant I saw them on the screen. In fact, even before I knew what shipping was. After Snoyce, it's one the more popular ships not involving Buffy or Angel. 😀
 
I don't think she'd take kindly to Illyria.

I heard though if Angel was to ever be renewed for a sixth season, Willow would have been sent to split Fred and Illyria in two, or something along those lines.

So if anything, she is or was bound to find out about Fred's death.

She knew her, and wouldn't be happy knowing Fred was gone.

Dagenspear said:
Also, I should really say that I never meant that there was anything more going with Willow and Fred than what we saw. I just meant that, Willow had met Fred, she liked her, and could probably tell that she was a decent person, and then she dies, and Angel calls Giles asking him to get a hold of Willow, and Giles just blows him off. He let an innocent girl die because he didn't like who she, or they, were affiliated with. Willow liked Fred, and I imagine, probably would've angry at Giles for doing such a thing, for allowing this person that she'd met and responded to, to die, for no other reason than just out of spite.
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I agree. Willow probably wouldn't be proud of Giles, since he didn't contact her to help Fred when Willow had the chance to.
 
Wild At Heart
Wild At Heart
I love the idea of Willow splitting Illyria in two to get Fred back, that would've been awesome!!!
Jay Jade said:
I agree. Willow probably wouldn't be proud of Giles, since he didn't contact her to help Fred when Willow had the chance to.
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Although, didn't Giles tell Angel that Willow was unavailable? In another dimension? Which makes sense from what we know of Willow's activities in season 8 and her relationship with Aluwyn/Saga Vasuki.

from Shells: Angel: "What do you mean [Willow]'s not on this plane? You just said"” Astral projection? Well, is there any way to get her astral over to L.A.? Giles, this is an emergency. No. No, I'm not going"” Don't put me on hold."
 
Dagenspear said:
and Angel calls Giles asking him to get a hold of Willow, and Giles just blows him off. He let an innocent girl die because he didn't like who she, or they, were affiliated with. Willow liked Fred, and I imagine, probably would've angry at Giles for doing such a thing, for allowing this person that she'd met and responded to, to die, for no other reason than just out of spite.
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I couldn't disagree more with this. Giles wasn't into spite. He *said* that Willow *couldn't* be contacted. He didn't refuse, or blow Angel off.
 
Giles wouldn't excuse himself with Willow like that if she were actually available. If he thought what Angel was doing was wrong, he would have told him so in no uncertain terms and refused to help him find Willow, most likely adding a few British obscenities to make his point clearer. 🙂 Then again, AtS wasn't really shy about making the Buffy characters look bad to make the AtS look better, so maybe I am giving the writers way too much credit.

Anyway, reading this thread I had the sudden certainty that Willow will hook up with Illyria at some point. Which would be awful since I am sick of everyone in the Scooby gang having a demon fetish and Illyria bores me to tears...
 
patriot1123 said:
I couldn't disagree more with this. Giles wasn't into spite. He *said* that Willow *couldn't* be contacted. He didn't refuse, or blow Angel off.
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Angel: Yes, I'm still at Wolfram and Hart.

Then Angel becomes furious and throws the phone I think. It's implied that Giles blows Angel off, after he tells him that he's still working at Wolfram & Hart.

So, yeah, it does seem like he kinda did.

---------- Post added at 07:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 AM ----------

Icarium said:
Giles wouldn't excuse himself with Willow like that if she were actually available. If he thought what Angel was doing was wrong, he would have told him so in no uncertain terms and refused to help him find Willow, most likely adding a few British obscenities to make his point clearer. 🙂 Then again, AtS wasn't really shy about making the Buffy characters look bad to make the AtS look better, so maybe I am giving the writers way too much credit.

Anyway, reading this thread I had the sudden certainty that Willow will hook up with Illyria at some point. Which would be awful since I am sick of everyone in the Scooby gang having a demon fetish and Illyria bores me to tears...
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She won't. Willow liked Fred. Not Illyria.

Also, how could saving human girl, good or bad, be wrong? I don't understand this logic. Giles was being a douche.
 
Also, how could saving human girl, good or bad, be wrong?
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It would be bad if it is impossible (as it apparently was) and the spell could have massive possible side effects like say ending the world as Giles claimed was the case with Willow's spell to resurrect Buffy (see their quarrel in Flooded). Not that I think the writers thought about that when they wrote Shells, mind you, but I'd rather go with the explanation that doesn't make Giles look like a malicious fool, thank you very much.
 
With what Willow was going through at the time (if you follow the comics as canon) I don't know that she'd be too broken up over it. I'm sure she'd be sad, but I don't know how much she'd grieve, if at all. If I heard a former crush of mine died, I'd feel sad for those they loved, maybe a little sad for them, depending on how into them I was, but I don't think I'd really grieve. I don't think Willow would have been too pained by Fred's death.

I don't like that they didn't say anything about Cordy's death though. Cordy, I think they all would have grieved over.
 
Yeh, she would have been sad, but not sad enough to go all veiny. To be honest, Giles has always kind of annoyed me. I don't really dislike him, but I much prefer Wesley.
 
To be honest I saw no real connection between them. I'd much rather the reaction Fred's parents had to her death--though obviously they never found out, snd I think that should have been explored.
 
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