Sorry, I'm not convinced that the Angel crew drifted apart because of their mind-wipe, the inferrence is that the overwhelming ammount of time that they have to spend running the company means they spend less time with each other. There is ZERO evidence that they are less close/friendly, just time constrained.
The two real tensions come from Gunn's 'upgrade' and the appearance of SDpike/ the meddling and manipulations of Eve later on. AI becomes fractured after Fred's illness/dead. Wesley later thinks that was Angel's deal, but he was wrong.
I can respect that. To me the tensions are obvious in the fact that they are overwhelmed, and instead of thinking things through together they are each going it alone. They have huge staffs who can take care of monitoring stuff, and they could delegate in order to meet together. Even that meeting where. I also agree that Gunn getting the upgrade was not only stupid but very decisive, I'd want to be cautious when I spoke where he could hear.
And Giles and Wesley The Watcher's Council in general. But all those cases take place ON BUFFY' s show, not on Angel, which is differently morally shaded/more grown-up. Calling it 'everything the Buffyverse is against' is just a blanket ascertion- it's a point of view, the prevaling one on Buffy's show, which is more morally idealistic And we're not talking about mass murder, we're talking about saving a soul that at one time was truly, wholly innocent and, through no fault of their own, was thrown into a hell dimension and raised by a sociopath.
Angel wanted to give Connor the life he should've had, the one he couldn't give him the first time around. Of course there was a price- the price was steep and really Angel didn't have the right to make that for his friends. But I tend to judge it on the merits of the person most affected and that was Connor.
I don't mean that we are discussing mass murder in the show - only that sacrificing some people in order to make the lives of other people easier is what every dictator does. It doesn't mean taking their lives - it can mean taking other things. Memories, as Illyria noted, are part of what makes who we are. The decision that the ability to do this gives you the right to do this is a step down a slippery slope. That doe not guarantee that there will be another step, but it is alarming in and of itself.
I don't see any point in AtS where is was condoned as an idea or as a group decision - or at least no positive way. Angel made that decision when he let Darla and Dru into a fallout shelter full of lawyers and locked the door. He felt that he had the right to make that decision based on their moral choices. Now, I am actually not bothered by this, even though I know it's wrong.
I can see what you're saying about giving Connor a chance - and paying the price. I completely understand why he did it, in terms of what he had to do to give Connor a chance. And it worked - even after Connor got his old memories back he had the stability to integrate them. But I still don't see any reason to take away the memories of his friends.
Connor had a real reason to be pissed at Angel when he found out the truth, that one life was just a comforting lie made up by his father, but he doesn't- he got what Angel was trying to do.
And of course Angel felt guilty, because ultimately he felt that he'd failed his son and the only way he could help him was by getting into bed with Evil Inc.
Agreed
Not really, neither Gunn or Lorne was especially close with Connor so what would be the point? The only people who were greatly affected were Angel, Wesley, Cordelia (who had no passed on) and to a lesser extent Fred- who was now also gone.
The show focused on those who are truly affected, and I can't remember the Orlon Window being destroyed anywhere that would've created a ripple affect. The rules of the show indicate that if a spell is broken, it's broken and stops affecting all involved.
I really can only go Doylist here - it was a piss poor writing decision to leave this question unresolved. One small scene is all that was needed to say they knew and were okay, or they didn't know.
The original prophecy was that Connor would kill Sahjahn, which absolutely came true, despite Sahjahn's meddling. Some prophecies, like the one that Buffy would die and the hands of the Master, absolutely do come true, their immutable. Angel didn't know what type of prophecy the Ocacles were ascerting and, in his mind, couldn't take the chance.
Of course that was what the prophecy was. But at the time that everything was going down, Wesley didn't know that it had been changed. He took Connor to protect him from being killed by his father, which put events into motion which ended uop with his father killing him. Just an irony.
: Why is it Angel hate to question a choice he made?
I was responding to the ascertion that what Angel was doing was as petty/selfish/thoughtless as what Willow did to Tara or that it was disgustingly vile as Spike's attempted rape of Buffy.
Also the statement that Angel supposedly cared for Buffy and Connor- basically saying that in reality he's just a self-centred jerk- which totally is just hate for the character whilst ignoring ALL the context of the decision.
I don't think it's hatred to compare his choice to the choice Willow make. And I do think Tara was roofie raped - the ability to consent knowledgeably was taken from her by the spell. That is what roofies do as, well as play with your memory. Yes, it was for completely selfish reasons, but since she had the power she made the decision.
Angel's decision was far more difficult and had much higher stakes. Once again I am back to bewildered as to why he felt he had to wipe the memories from his friends. It's not like they could tell the bad guys - the bad guys already knew. And I am certain that it would have relieved their minds and that no one would have even tried to see Connor if that was what Angel wanted.
And you are reading more into the word
supposedly than I do. I can't say I wouldn't do the same if my ox was getting gored, though.
Activating all of the Potentials IN SUNNYDALE would have been acceptable battle strategy. Activating all the others, with no forewarning of what was coming, was irresponsibility..
I always figured it was an all or none proposition.
Well in the early days when anyone queried who Conner was (when another character would let his name slip in passing as I think somebody did at some point) I remember Angel looking very nervous, so I take that as being he was aware of what had been done.
I think it was only Cordy who did that, and she was quickly shushed by Angel.
