Women in the Buffyverse

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Fat Elvis 007

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Has anyone else noticed a pattern with all of the women in the Buffyverse? Now, I'm not saying Joss Whedon did this intentionally, but it seems like every major female character in the Buffyverse has either gone evil or died, or both. The only major exception I can find is Dawn.

Buffy- deceased(later ressurected)
Jenny Calender- deceased
Faith- evil(reformed)
Willow- evil(reformed)
Tara- deceased
Anya- evil(reformed), deceased
Darla- evil(reformed), deceased
Cordelia- evil(possesed, reformed), deceased
Lilah- evil, deceased
Fred- deceased, evil(possesed)

It just seems strange when you compare it to the number of male characters who are still alive and good(Lorne, Xander, Gunn, Giles, Riley, Oz). This seems to be the trend in all forms of literature.
 
I've never thought of that in this light before. Joss is always so willing to talk about how he made Buffy an empowered female, but yet most of the male characters get to live and remain good. Even male vampires such as Angel & Spike get souls and a chance to be redeemed. Most of the female vampires we have come across have been at times more ruthless than the males. The only one given a chance at a soul, was when Darla was brought back human by W&H, but it didn't last as she developed again the disease she was dying from when she was first human.
 
Although Darla did get to do a lot of good in Connor. Angel may have got to live with a soul but he had to live with what he had done for eternity, along with memory of Connor, Buffy and him in IWRY etc. He may not be dead (well hes undead but undead scmundead) but he is suffering.

Wes got himself tortured, blown up, shot and knife slashed, not an easy life.

But then again theres more females then males.
 
Oops, I accidentally clicked on the Thank You button myself, not knowing what it was. Now I look like an ass. Pay no attention. Um...thanks for thanking me, Cordy!

Unfortunately, this is a pattern in all forms of literature. Strong female characters usually end up becoming martyrs.
 
This is an interesting topic, I've never noticed that pattern before, and it doesn't really seem fair that the pattern isn't the same for all the men does it?
 
Well Wes eventually kicked the bucket, Gunn will ("You're not going to last ten minutes") and by the looks of NFA so will the vampire twosome. So guys die, well in Angel they do. As did Doyle, I miss his Irish accent.
 
Looks like the entire male cast of ANGEL kicked the bucket. Ironically, Xander, Giles, Oz, Robin Wood and Andrew all survived. Along with Buffy's dad. Of the bunch, only Andrew was evil (although reformed) and Oz is possessed on a monthly basis.
 
I think another important question is why all of the women that fight and most female main characters are special in some way. Buffy, Kendra, and Faith are slayers. Willow is an extremely powerful witch. Tara is also a witch. Anya is an ex-vengence demon or vengence demon depending on the point in the series. Dawn is the key. The only normal women in main roles are on Angel, and Cordy gets the visions, possessed by Jasmine, and killed as a result of her visions. Fred also is possessed and dies. Darla is a vampire most of the time and "dies" having Connor because of her sacrifice. Lilah also dies, murdered by Jasmine in Cordy's body. Watch Cordy's strength in that episode. It is completely wrong for a woman who was hurt the way she was so I think its fair to assume that Jasmine was melting through into Cordy in more ways than just mind control.

I've raised the point before that the only women capable of dealing with and directly fighting demons in the whedonverse have some type of special powers. There are no women comparable to Giles or especially Gunn and Wood, strong fighters who are human. (Its off topic but also interesting that both Gunn and Wood the two best fully human fighters are black) The only exception seems to be Kennedy, but she is a potential slayer so I'm not sure she counts. On Angel, I was always surprised that Fred never became a better fighter or even learned how to protect herself! She didn't carry a weapon regularly and seemed to rely on the men to do most of the fighting. I can understand why Cordy never really got involved in the actual saving work of Angel Investigations. She had the visions after the first season, which made fighting or even driving potentially deadly, since if she had a vision since she would be rendered helpless while fighting or in the driving case crash the car. Fred had no such problems and learned to be resourceful in Pylea. I was waiting for Fred to develop her skills or for a strong, intellegent, human, female demon slayer to enter the Angel cast, but that never happened. I don't count Lilah because although she can shoot, she never fought against demons and worked for evil. Kate was a strong character, but fell apart when she learned about demons. Justine could fight well, but was Holtz's pawn and not an empowering figure. I just think its odd that in two shows with a theme of the empowerment of women (more Buffy than Angel) female characters need to have "super-powers" to fight demons physically and protect themselves while some human male characters are very effective demon fighters.
 
C
Cordelia
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Huh I never really thought about it. But that is kinda weird when you point it out like that.
 
I suppose it does look like that, but then again, a whole lotta people die in the Buffyverse. And I for one would much rather be Buffy than someone like Wesley, who although he lived through all but the last ten minutes of the series, got tortured and did a lot of crazy stuff and ended up gun-happy and depressed.
 
This is a great topic. Though I see your point, and I agree with te idea, I am going to play devils advocate....
If you really think about it. Death and Evilness are not mutually exclusive to the women in the buffyverse. Angel has bounced from evil to good more times than I can count. Wes especially in the last few seasons seemed to be becoming more and more psychotic, even border lining on evil here and there. Gun has done questionable things several times, including killing. Doyle was killed. Connor started out evil, but reformed, then went evil again, and then reformed. Andrew as pointed out previously started evil then reformed. Spike, started out evil and reformed as well. It was implied that Giles was evil in his youth but her reformed, and later on he killed Ben, which was a borderline evil act. And Xander, though never evil, has been used by and for evil. For example by Dracula, and the animal possession in the first season. So though I think it would be nice to see a normal strong female role model, I don't see "normal" happening to anyone in the buffyverse, even in most of the men. Wood is the son of a slayer, Oz turned werewolf, Gun was enhanced by W&H, Riley was enhanced by the government, and Giles was a former warlock, who still used his powers quite often before Willow came into her own. So it seems to me that every main character is "special" in some way, men and women alike.
Also I remember reading somewhere that Joss said he killed the women because it got more of a reaction out of the audience.
Oh and you left Joyce off of your list. She isn't an exception cause she died, but she was more normal than Dawn, or any of the others. And while all of the other characters have been "special", she was always a normal Mom. She didn't die from lacking superpowers, but from natural causes. So it occurs to me that both Tara and Joyce had natural deaths. Where as Anya a former Demon was killed by a demon. I'm not sure the point I was getting at about Joyce and Tara, but I just wanted to point that out..
 
Hitome, I never thought about that before. It is weird that there were no non-powered women fighters. Angel should have taught Fred to fight.

Angel has bounced from evil to good more times than I can count. Wes especially in the last few seasons seemed to be becoming more and more psychotic, even border lining on evil here and there. Gun has done questionable things several times, including killing. Doyle was killed. Connor started out evil, but reformed, then went evil again, and then reformed. Andrew as pointed out previously started evil then reformed. Spike, started out evil and reformed as well. It was implied that Giles was evil in his youth but her reformed, and later on he killed Ben, which was a borderline evil act. And Xander, though never evil, has been used by and for evil. For example by Dracula, and the animal possession in the first season.
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I forgot about a lot of those instances. Still, when you compare it to the number of women....maybe it's just because there are more women characters in the Buffyverse.

Giles was a former warlock, who still used his powers quite often before Willow came into her own.
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I don't think Giles was ever referred to as a "warlock," or if that term was ever even used on either show. That would mean that Giles had innate magical powers, and we've never seen any evidence of that.

Also I remember reading somewhere that Joss said he killed the women because it got more of a reaction out of the audience.
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That's what I was thinking.

Oh and you left Joyce off of your list.
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I knew I was forgetting a big one...
 
Never really event hought about...but it is rather interesting now that you brought it up...I had noticed that many of the females die or become evil...while the males do not...but I didn't actually sit and think about it...interesting pattern there....

Faithy said:
Also I remember reading somewhere that Joss said he killed the women because it got more of a reaction out of the audience.
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Thats probably very true...I think it does get a stronger reaction....
 
I used the word warlock because I couldn't think if male witches who didn't have any special powers had a special name, so I just called him a warlock. I didn't think it implied innate magical abilities.
 
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