Wonder Woman

[Carrie Hopewell]

*SPOILER ALERT* If you haven't seen Wonder Woman yet and plan on watching it, you look away now.

So, I saw WW yesterday and actually have a lot of thoughts. Until yesterday, I'd never seen anything of WW - not the comics, not the cartoons (?) - so I went into it with an open mind and no expectations story wise. I don't usually watch superhero movies and have little patience for it but this was the first female lead superhero movie and I was excited about watching it.

At first, I was surprised by how revealing and sexy the outfits were (because of my feminist expectations) but, to be fair, it's been pointed out that the camera doesn't linger on Diana's body or show her through a male gaze which is very true. The women were all physically strong, some buffer than others (which is rare since most actresses chosen for these jobs are too skinny to realistically portray warriors) and I enjoyed the matriarchal society in the beginning of the movie. However, I was disappointed that these women didn't contribute more to the story and that the main cast was predominantly male.

I will confess that I wanted to enjoy Diane more than I did. She's perhaps too perfect to be interesting. My favorite character was Steve because of the mix of awkwardness and heroism. I also rooted for Eres a bit more than Wonder Woman. I liked him a lot.

I was loving the movie until the last half-hour perhaps. Until then, the movie was a solid 9/10. However, when Eres was revealed, the movie shifted into a more conventional superhero story with the whole "humans are corrupt but they are worth it because of love". In fact, the power of love thing was a bit forced and the moral dilemma of the story was kind of mucked up in the end. I thought it presented some contradictory ideas and that the writers weren't sure what they were trying to say...

Anyway, thoughts? I would love to hear them! @Guy must have some opinion, if he's seen the movie already...

 

[white avenger]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but plan to later today. Just a comment on Diana's costume. What is portrayed in the movie, from what I have seen in BvS ans the current trailers is downright demure when compared to the costume worn in the comics, or even the Linda Carter TV series.

The Amazons of Greek mythology were more or less a female version of what we see as Spartans today, some of the greatest fighters of their era, and were the equal both in skill and stature of any Greek hero. From their classic description, they were far more manlike than feminine, nothing like the actors who portray them in movies.

 

[Guy]

Anyway, thoughts? I would love to hear them! @Guy must have some opinion, if he's seen the movie already...

I haven't seen it yet, but I will next week.

I'm going to guess, though, that the main reason for why this movie got SUCH a positive response is simply because of how bad the previous DCEU movies were. I'm guessing that you didn't watch 'Man of Steel', 'Batman v Superman', and 'Suicide Squad'? Well, you didn't miss anything good, but I think that you would have appreciated 'Wonder Woman' even more if you had seen the clusterf^&@ks that came before it.

As for Diana herself... This is weird, but I have a lot of trouble with Gal Gadot's Israeli accent. I'm guessing that it sounds exotic to non-Israeli audiences, but to me it just sounds like she didn't pay attention in English class. Learn some proper English, woman!

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

I wasn't overjoyed with the film. I think they maybe should've had the women on the island speaking some kind of ancient Greek perhaps? Gawd forbid they use subtitles for any length of time in a comic book movie, though. I'm not sure about Gadot as an actress, or if it was just the writing, but some of what she was saying wasn't believable. Plus her accent was kind of off. I actually wasn't thrilled with Aries, either. Perhaps it was bleed over from Fargo, but I didn't care for him. The plot, such as it was, I found lacking too. Don't even get me started on some of the outrageous action sequences.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

I'm not sure about Gadot as an actress, or if it was just the writing, but some of what she was saying wasn't believable.

I found her believable but she was a bit cold and dull in her performance. She lacked that spark that Chris Pine had. He gave a surprisingly good performance. Why was her accent off? What was her accent supposed to be like?

The plot, such as it was, I found lacking too. Don't even get me started on some of the outrageous action sequences.

Yeah, the plot was very simple.
I've heard some people complain about those action sequences too. I don't know why. I mean, I was very tired when I watched the movie so maybe that's why I missed some of these criticisms lol.

Btw, when I say the movie is good, I mean within the genre and not when compared to, say, my favorite movies, for example.

 

[Mr Trick]

*SPOILER ALERT* If you haven't seen Wonder Woman yet and plan on watching it, you look away now.

So, I saw WW yesterday and actually have a lot of thoughts. Until yesterday, I'd never seen anything of WW - not the comics, not the cartoons (?) - so I went into it with an open mind and no expectations story wise. I don't usually watch superhero movies and have little patience for it but this was the first female lead superhero movie and I was excited about watching it.

At first, I was surprised by how revealing and sexy the outfits were (because of my feminist expectations) but, to be fair, it's been pointed out that the camera doesn't linger on Diana's body or show her through a male gaze which is very true. The women were all physically strong, some buffer than others (which is rare since most actresses chosen for these jobs are too skinny to realistically portray warriors) and I enjoyed the matriarchal society in the beginning of the movie. However, I was disappointed that these women didn't contribute more to the story and that the main cast was predominantly male.

I will confess that I wanted to enjoy Diane more than I did. She's perhaps too perfect to be interesting. My favorite character was Steve because of the mix of awkwardness and heroism. I also rooted for Eres a bit more than Wonder Woman. I liked him a lot.

I was loving the movie until the last half-hour perhaps. Until then, the movie was a solid 9/10. However, when Eres was revealed, the movie shifted into a more conventional superhero story with the whole "humans are corrupt but they are worth it because of love". In fact, the power of love thing was a bit forced and the moral dilemma of the story was kind of mucked up in the end. I thought it presented some contradictory ideas and that the writers weren't sure what they were trying to say...

Anyway, thoughts? I would love to hear them! @Guy must have some opinion, if he's seen the movie already...

Well the revealing outfits come from the comic books, and sometimes you need to stick to certain things from the source material. What I liked was how Diana was dressed normally for most of the film, but had a slow change into Wonder Woman. That is what made the ending pay off IMO.

Maybe but, I think it earnt that ending because of the slow building character driven drama for most of the film. And I for one found the final battle really impressive, even if it did drag on a bit😉

[QUOTE="Carrie Hopewell, post: 1262192, member: 13520"]I found her believable but she was a bit cold and dull in her performance. She lacked that spark that Chris Pine had. He gave a surprisingly good performance. Why was her accent off? What was her accent supposed to be like?



Yeah, the plot was very simple.
I've heard some people complain about those action sequences too. I don't know why. I mean, I was very tired when I watched the movie so maybe that's why I missed some of these criticisms lol.

Btw, when I say the movie is good, I mean within the genre and not when compared to, say, my favorite movies, for example.[/QUOTE]

That's what the film did cleverly though I think. It put Diana in a male biased world, and because she is alien to that culture, that is why he being cold and cut off makes sense. That was the perfect way to approach the feminist ideas. Accents don't bother me in fantasy films, though of course if you have too many different ones it can be a bit jarring. I enjoyed the relationship with her and Pine's character. The bit where she walks in on him in the bath, and asks about his "watch"😉 Was very funny!😛

 

[GwenRaiden]

Won't be watching because ugh.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

@GwenRaiden I didn't know that. Just read an article on her involvement in the IDF.

 

[Mr Trick]

Interesting stuff. But my own personal view is that you have to separate the performer from the personal behind that performance.

 

[Last Watcher]

Isn't military service compulsory in Israel? .....so apart from people involved in the church you would be hard pressed to find any Israeli that wasn't.
So as they have no choice you can't take that as anything more than National Service (We used to have it & many other countries still do)

 

[GwenRaiden]

Oh **** sake. Missing the point much. *logs off forever*

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

Isn't military service compulsory in Israel? .....so apart from people involved in the church you would be hard pressed to find any Israeli that wasn't.
So as they have no choice you can't take that as anything more than National Service (We used to have it & many other countries still do)

She's not being boycotted for being Israeli or for having done compulsory military service. Gal Gadot is being boycotted for being a Zionist and pro-Gaza:

 

[Ayko]

Won't be watching because ugh...

Good decision. Good for you!

 

[Blaze]

She's not being boycotted for being Israeli or for having done compulsory military service. Gal Gadot is being boycotted for being a Zionist and pro-Gaza:

How does that make her a Zionist? I'm not trying to be an asshat, I legitimately don't know. I've read a bit on the topic, but I'm still really confused about how anything she has said makes her a Zionist. As I understand it, zionism is the polar opposite of anti-semitism, but I haven't been able to find something that Gal Gadot has said that suggest she wants to exclude Palestinians in her country. Again, I'm not educated on the matter, and I've been trying to educate myself, but it's very hard to do when none of the articles I read have credible sources. Hoping that someone on the board knows more about this than I do.

 

[Mr Trick]

And I'm no expect either which is why I'm just going to stick about talking Gadot as a actress and the film itself. What I will say is until we get all the facts or her side I don't think we should jump.

 

[Guy]

Won't be watching because ugh.

View attachment 8804

*Sigh*.... Oh well, let's do this.

First of all - obviously, as an Israeli citizen, I'm biased. Make of that what you will.

Anyway, this is what Gal said:

In this post, Gal condemns Hamas (an internationally-recognized terrorist organization) for attacking civilians and for using human shields. She also proclaims her support to Israeli citizens (who were under missile attacks from Hamas, at the time) and to the Israeli soldiers who were fighting against Hamas.
And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see anything objectionable about this statement. I also condemn Hamas and its acts of terror, and I also support the Israeli soldiers who were fighting against it. Hell, I was one of them.

The only part of this post that I find to be questionable is the hashtag "we are right", simply because I believe that there is no right side in this war - Hamas is a terrorist organization that's bent on the destruction of Israel, and the Israeli government has been responsible (either intentionally or through negligence) for the death and suffering of countless innocents for years. In the words of Adelle DeWitt - "there's enough blame around for everyone to have seconds".
That said, I don't blame Gal for saying that phrase at that time - when your home is under constant missile attacks, it tends to really strengthen your feelings of self-righteousness. Pretty much all the major news outlets in Israel shared that feeling of "this is a justified war", and almost every person I talked to at the time felt the same way. I assume that the people of the USA felt the same way about the American invasion of Afghanistan following 9/11. I'd disagree with Gal about that phrase, but I certainly wouldn't ban her and her films for it.

Isn't military service compulsory in Israel?

That is true.

She's not being boycotted for being Israeli or for having done compulsory military service. Gal Gadot is being boycotted for being a Zionist and pro-Gaza:

How does that make her a Zionist? I'm not trying to be an asshat, I legitimately don't know. I've read a bit on the topic, but I'm still really confused about how anything she has said makes her a Zionist. As I understand it, zionism is the polar opposite of anti-semitism, but I haven't been able to find something that Gal Gadot has said that suggest she wants to exclude Palestinians in her country. Again, I'm not educated on the matter, and I've been trying to educate myself, but it's very hard to do when none of the articles I read have credible sources. Hoping that someone on the board knows more about this than I do.

"Zionism" is a phrase that has plenty of different meanings depending on who you ask. Not unlike "feminism".

But let's ask Wikipedia:

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the Roman-named region Palestine)."

Zionism - Wikipedia

As I see it (and I think that this is how most Israelis define Zionism too), "Zionism" simply means "Jewish nationalism/patriotism". Do I support that? No, because I think that the idea of nationalism/patriotism is ridiculous, and I think that we should all simply see each other as human. I don't believe that there's any fundamental difference between Jews and Arabs, or Russians and Chinese, or Americans and Australians, and so on.
But I'm definitely in the minority on this. The vast majority of the world is nationalist. Whenever an American says "God bless America", he/she is making a nationalistic statement. All of the major political parties in Israel define themselves as Zionists, including the parties that support a two-state solution and co-existence with the Palestinians. Pretty much every major elected politician in the western world is a nationalist, and the vast majority of Hollywood actors are also nationalists. If you're gonna ban Gal for being a Zionist, then you may as well stop watching Hollywood films altogether, because they're FULL of nationalists.

 

[Bluebird]

There is a large proportion of Hollywood actors who help fund the IDF, which is sad. But that's all I'll say on it since (even anonymously) criticising the Israeli government almost got me fired from my job. I find that very scary. I no longer share my views as much as I used to.

 

[vellavu]

I think it depends on your expectation.

If you expect a great superhero story with great plot and characters, of course you'll be annoyed by pointless fan-services.

But if you expect a 3D porn in the first place, then it's a porn with some plot and characters as a plus. Why not just enjoying it as a big screen porn?

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

But if you expect a 3D porn in the first place, then it's a porn with some plot and characters as a plus. Why not just enjoying it as a big screen porn?

Well, I'm an heterosexual woman so there isn't much going for me other than Chris Pine - who was actually one of the best parts of the movie. I mean, I can acknowledge that there were many pretty women but... meh.

 

[Guy]

You should watch TO season 4. It's great! And season 2 is also. I mean, you watched TVD season 5, and TO is miles better! You know, fyi lol.

I actually really loved 80% of season 5 of TVD, if only because of Katherine's arc.😀

And I'll probably get to 'TO' again at some point, but I have lots of other things that I want to watch first. I'm currently on season 4 of 'Agents of SHIELD' (which is actually a BIG improvement compared to all the previous seasons of the show, and actually reaches Whedonverse-worthy heights at times 🙂).