Wonder Woman

[Bluebird]

Mr Trick: And Woody Allen too. I'm not blind to it. But I do think you have judge someone's work separate outside of them as a person. Its a bit of a slippery slop to not watch something because of a dodgy personal history.

I don't think so. And a slippery slope to what? What will happen? I'm just curious. I see it as a personal choice if you have principles you feel are important. I mean, you are supporting performers with your money, and it's the only (super)power you have.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

And I'll probably get to 'TO' again at some point, but I have lots of other things that I want to watch first. I'm currently on season 4 of 'Agents of SHIELD' (which is actually a BIG improvement compared to all the previous seasons of the show, and actually reaches Whedonverse-worthy heights at times🙂).

Pssst... How can you turn your back on this?

https://did%3D2eb66cf50b9a47be175545184736ff8eb0850f4c%3Bid%3D159066001520%3Bkey%3DbxaMuXNALuXC60NCk64fCA%3Bname%3Dklausmikelsons

Hope is so adorable!! Look!!

https://did%3D42b36f16b79f8535286a8f60d122fc50cbade750%3Bid%3D123109206891%3Bkey%3D7LcHT3zqGGXfSCcfxbltHw%3Bname%3Dmadaleina

https://did%3D0735c6e025a3a1987b95a80e1d5803369a1a8df1%3Bid%3D118935695238%3Bkey%3DVGOdKwj18BlV8XMIiw6ouA%3Bname%3Dfallinginlovewithseries

 

[GwenRaiden]

RE the Palestine/(illegitimate state of)Israel conflict, all I have to say is

 

[Guy]

Pssst... How can you turn your back on this?

https://did%3D2eb66cf50b9a47be175545184736ff8eb0850f4c%3Bid%3D159066001520%3Bkey%3DbxaMuXNALuXC60NCk64fCA%3Bname%3Dklausmikelsons

Because I already have this:

🙂

#TheWitcherDidItFirst
#TheWitcherHasTheBestCharacters

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

Because I already have this:

Oh please! Not only is Hope cuter but that guy has nothing on Klaus f***ing Mikaelson.

I mean, what is Joseph Morgan even doing in this video? Like, deliberately setting my ovaries on fire? He's like teasing women on purpose. Holy crap!

https://did%3D950a3e50598eee484eddc5957706edfd5a215cc4%3Bid%3D159340270369%3Bkey%3DtnfJsxzA-wRSAi6fiS9FCg%3Bname%3Djosephmorgan-candids

 

[Mr Trick]

I don't think so. And a slippery slope to what? What will happen? I'm just curious. I see it as a personal choice if you have principles you feel are important. I mean, you are supporting performers with your money, and it's the only (super)power you have.

My point was that there are lots of celebrities who have been involved in dodgy shit down the years. Does that mean you can't watch and enjoy their work? IMO no. Don't think it has anything to do with having principles. Like in the Polanski case. Not only do I think what he did was terrible, but I hold him even more to account because he has never faced up to it and taken his punishment. But that doesn't take away that he's a very talented filmmaker. Endosing someone's work/art/entertainment is not the same as endosing them personally. You can't really say its the same as voting for Trump, because Trump is in a position of power to do demange to America. A lot of people think the same way as me, and some of them are very principled people.

 

[Guy]

RE the Palestine/(illegitimate state of)Israel conflict, all I have to say is

That guy raises some perfectly valid points against the government Israel (in addition to some empty rhetoric). And that does not change the fact that:

1) Gal Gadot is not a part of the Israeli government, and has neither performed nor supported ANY of the war crimes that the Israeli army has allegedly performed.

2) The war crimes that the Israeli army had allegedly performed do not make the state of Israel illegitimate, as you claimed. The American army has performed many, MANY war crimes throughout history, and continues to do so today. Does that make the USA an illegitimate state?

 

[vellavu]

Israel is more legitimate than Iran, China, and most middle east nations combined IMO.

 

[GwenRaiden]

Like in the Polanski case. Not only do I think what he did was terrible, but I hold him even more to account because he has never faced up to it and taken his punishment.

But how do you hold him to account? By paying to see his films?

Endosing someone's work/art/entertainment is not the same as endosing them personally.

But of course it is. They personally would not have an income to make films and be in the business and therefore having these opportunities to abuse offscreen if it were not for the career they have.

 

[Guy]

I may be anti-zionist but I am not anti-semitic.

I do not think that you're anti-semitic. I know many Jewish/Israeli people who agree about everything that you said here. I simply disagree with you (and with them) about certain points.

I wasn't referencing Gadot at this point. Israel only exists because of Western Imperialism, that's why I find it to be illegitimate (and catastrophic)

The USA also only exists due to western imperialism. The UK only exists due to Norman imperialism. The state of Jordan also only exists due to western imperialism (before the British and French defeated the Ottoman empire in WW1, the area currently known as Jordan was under the control of the Ottoman empire), or due to Arab imperialism in the 600's.
If you go far enough back in time, you discover that every single country in the world exists due to brutal conquest.

The fact remains that the state of Israel exists in the present day. It exists, and I live in it, and most of my family and friends live in it, and I don't think that we're performing a crime by existing. The state of Israel is as legitimate as any other country in the world.
Does that mean that the state of Israel is perfect, and that nothing about it should be criticized or changed? HELL. NO. The government of Israel is both stupid and immoral, and I wish that it would change, in so many ways. The Palestinians should either get their own state (in the areas where Arab people are the majority), or they should be incorporated into Israel as citizens with fully equal rights. The former solution is probably more likely to happen, AND more likely to last in the long term, so that's the solution that I support, but I think that both solutions are valid.
The problem is that both the Israeli government and Hamas do not want this solution... In addition to the fact that the middle east is a ridiculously complicated place in terms of politics, and the fact that there is a tragically enormous amount of bad blood between both sides. Due to those factors, the solution is nowhere near being a reality.

So - is Israel illegitimate? No, Israel is as legitimate as any country can be. Is Israel in need of a huge overhaul? Yes, definitely.



Back on topic - if you ban 'Wonder Woman', you're not doing it to help the Palestinians. You're doing it to hurt an actress who has done nothing wrong, and said nothing wrong.

 

[GwenRaiden]

I did not say I would "ban" a movie, just that I won't be watching or spending on it.

 

[Guy]

I did not say I would "ban" a movie, just that I won't be watching or spending on it.

I'm sorry, I thought that the word "ban" meant "not supporting something". But apparently, it only means "to prohibit especially by legal means", which, of course, is NOT what you're doing.

But anyway - it is your right to choose not to watch 'Wonder Woman', of course. If you choose not to watch it due to what Gal wrote in that post, well, then I think that that's a wrong decision (Because unlike Polanski, Gal is not a rapist or anything comparable - her only "crime" is writing a facebook post, in which she condemned a terrorist organization and supported her country's citizens and soldiers) but you're still completely within your right to choose so.

 

[GwenRaiden]

I guess I'm just not a big Wonder Woman fan in general. Whether I disagree with what she said or not, I probably still wouldn't watch it. 😀 Superhero stuff isn't for me, really. I am looking forward to The Defenders though. I actually loved Iron Fist, lawl. Mostly because of Harold and Ward Meachum. Ward Meachum had one of the best character arcs in the MCU tv shows yet!

 

[Guy]

I guess I'm just not a big Wonder Woman fan in general. Whether I disagree with what she said or not, I probably still wouldn't watch it. 😀 Superhero stuff isn't for me, really.

That's fair. 🙂

giphy.com/search/clink-clink/

I am looking forward to The Defenders though.

Right?!

I actually loved Iron Fist, lawl.

😵

www.buzzfeed.com/laurenpaul/struggles-only-people-who-are-always-right-will-understan?utm_term=.vup4jkWB3J#.ib1r2lqDKV

LOL, I'm kidding. I actually liked parts of it too. I just couldn't stand Danny himself.

Word!

Mostly because of Harold and Ward Meachum. Ward Meachum had one of the best character arcs in the MCU tv shows yet!

I did like those two a lot. If they just built the show around Coleen Wing and the Meachums, I probably would have loved it.🙂

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

How adorable! Just too sweet for words! (Okay, not really. Cringe-worthy, in fact) Hey Gal....that's NOT your country. And this tweet invokes projectile vomiting.


I've never been a Wonder Woman fan, and even if I were would I'd give this film a pass. I'm not interested in paying money to see a performer who supports what's going on in Palestine. The plight of occupied countries is always tragic, especially for the children.

 

[Bluebird]

@Guy Tbf her stance on Israel is shared by a lot of Hollywood so you'd end up missing a lot of movies by boycotting over that issue. I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison between her and Polanski. More the point that studios don't care about personal history/opinions in any sense as long as you make them money. Polanski being the most extreme case, obviously.

Back to a silly MOVIE though 😀 - I was wondering what Mike and Jay would say about it first. Not that I would pay to go see it in the theatre either (not for political reasons, just because I HATE movie theatres with a passion).

The one thing I will say about Gal (is that her name?) is that she has the right physicality for the role. She looks like she'd beat the shit out of you. Wonder womaaaan!

 

[Guy]

How adorable! Just too sweet for words! (Okay, not really. Cringe-worthy, in fact) Hey Gal....that's NOT your country. And this tweet invokes projectile vomiting.

View attachment 8806
I've never been a Wonder Woman fan, and even if I were would I'd give this film a pass. I'm not interested in paying money to see a performer who supports what's going on in Palestine. The plight of occupied countries is always tragic, especially for the children.

View attachment 8805

1) That's not Gal's country? 😵 If she lives in it, and is a citizen of it, then yeah, it's her country.

2) "A performer who supports what's going on in Palestine"? If you mean the occupation, then Gal never expressed support of it. She was simply talking about her country's war against a terrorist organization that was launching missiles on Israeli cities. Contrary to popular opinion, you CAN be against the occupation and in favor of Israel's existence at the same time.

And in case it wasn't clear - this wasn't a tweet, it was a facebook post, and it's not recent. It's from 2014, during the last war between Israel and Hamas.

@Guy Tbf her stance on Israel is shared by a lot of Hollywood so you'd end up missing a lot of movies by boycotting over that issue. I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison between her and Polanski. More the point that studios don't care about personal history/opinions in any sense as long as you make them money. Polanski being the most extreme case, obviously.

That's true.

Back to a silly MOVIE though 😀 - I was wondering what Mike and Jay would say about it first. Not that I would pay to go see it in the theatre either (not for political reasons, just because I HATE movie theatres with a passion).

Oh, their review about it was hilarious:

"I thought they were gonna do more fish-out-of-water humor. I guess they're saving that for Aquaman". 😀

 

[Athena]

Ok, admittedly when I clicked on this thread I have to admit I wasn't expecting the heavy posts..... 😕 I have no views on the actress or what she's said or done in the past. To be honest I don't really know her, or the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict too well, so it's probably just best that I don't comment and put my foot in it by saying something factually incorrect. I'm going to see this movie tonight and I look forward to doing so, I've heard some great things about it.

 

[Guy]

Well, I finally watched the movie. And it was... Alright. Much better than all the previous DCEU movies (which, really, is not a high bar at all), but still not as good as most of the reviews made it sound. The first act is mostly good, the second act is mostly VERY good, and the third act is mostly weak. Overall... It's on about the same level as films like 'Doctor Strange' or 'Ant-Man' - a solid 7/10.
Disclaimer: I accidentally read a whole bunch of spoilers about the film, which probably hurt my enjoyment of it.

If there's one thing that stood out about this movie, it was how NAIVE it was. Not just because of how naive the heroine was (and oh, she was naive), but because of how naive the writer and/or director seemed to be - the supposedly "scary" stuff in this movie (you know, the actions that the villains take to show us how evil they are) were not very scary, and the "life lessons" of the movie felt very obvious, and the slow-motion shots felt like they were highlighting things that aren't impressive enough to be highlighted, and so on. I think that children could absolutely fall in love with this film. Jaded cynics? Not so much.

It's still good, though, because unlike the previous DCEU films, this movie doesn't attempt to reinvent the wheel. It doesn't try to deconstruct the genre or to invent something totally new - it just tries to tell the story of a superhero, with all of the fun and spectacle and simple emotion that comes with it. And it does that pretty damn well.

Oh, and Gal Gadot? She's alright. She still feels like a very inexperienced actor, but she's good enough here.

(I still don't like her accent, though...)

I will confess that I wanted to enjoy Diane more than I did. She's perhaps too perfect to be interesting. My favorite character was Steve because of the mix of awkwardness and heroism.

Steve was great. Diana was hardly my favorite superhero (she's good, but she could be a LOT better), but Steve is definitely one of my favorite superhero love interests. I wish that female love interests in superhero movies would get as much development and focus as Steve got here. (It also helps that Chris Pine can act circles around Gal Gadot...)

I also rooted for Eres a bit more than Wonder Woman. I liked him a lot.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the film

You... You were rooting for the guy that wanted to destroy all of humanity?

giphy.com/search/youre-evil

Spoiler

I was loving the movie until the last half-hour perhaps. Until then, the movie was a solid 9/10. However, when Eres was revealed, the movie shifted into a more conventional superhero story with the whole "humans are corrupt but they are worth it because of love". In fact, the power of love thing was a bit forced and the moral dilemma of the story was kind of mucked up in the end. I thought it presented some contradictory ideas and that the writers weren't sure what they were trying to say...

I don't think it was contradictory or mucked up (the point was that humans have both good and evil in them, which is true), I just think that its execution was very cliched and on-the-nose.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

If there's one thing that stood out about this movie, it was how NAIVE it was. Not just because of how naive the heroine was (and oh, she was naive), but because of how naive the writer and/or director seemed to be - the supposedly "scary" stuff in this movie (you know, the actions that the villains take to show us how evil they are) were not very scary, and the "life lessons" of the movie felt very obvious, and the slow-motion shots felt like they were highlighting things that aren't impressive enough to be highlighted, and so on. I think that children could absolutely fall in love with this film. Jaded cynics? Not so much.

That is true, but this sentiment still describes me after watching the movie:

https://twitter.com/x/status/871179290238308354

Steve was great. Diana was hardly my favorite superhero (she's good, but she could be a LOT better), but Steve is definitely one of my favorite superhero love interests. I wish that female love interests in superhero movies would get as much development and focus as Steve got here. (It also helps that Chris Pine can act circles around Gal Gadot...)

#feminism

I don't think it was contradictory or mucked up (the point was that humans have both good and evil in them, which is true), I just think that its execution was very cliched and on-the-nose.

It was all of that but, to me, it also felt contradictory in the sense that the writers were trying to make several points but gave up halfway through.