Would Cordelia in Buffy hang out with someone like Fred in Angel?

[Joshua]

When Fred first appears in Angel Season 3, she's very geeky and much like Season 1 Willow. So here's what I don't get, Cordelia bullied Willow for being a "geek" but yet she was ok hanging out with Fred? Fred was about as geeky as Willow was in the start of Buffy. Does this show how much Cordelia has changed?

 

[thetopher]

But were Fred and Cordelia really friends? I mean, they were in the same line of work but I don't remember non-shop talk related conversations between the two of them.

They interacted for a whole Season and I don't remember them having any significant conversations with each other. In fact I never got the impression they were that close, S3 in hindsight was the season of the unconvincing pairings- it was very romance heavy- with the Wesley/Fred/Gunn triangle and the emergence of Cangel.
Between the romance and Connors birth I can't remember these two characters interacting all that much.

In fact I can barely remember any really great character moments from that season that weren't in some way romance-related.
...And I've just realised what my least favourite season of Angel is. 😉

 

[Aud]

But were Fred and Cordelia really friends? I mean, they were in the same line of work but I don't remember non-shop talk related conversations between the two of them.

They interacted for a whole Season and I don't remember them having any significant conversations with each other. In fact I never got the impression they were that close, S3 in hindsight was the season of the unconvincing pairings- it was very romance heavy- with the Wesley/Fred/Gunn triangle and the emergence of Cangel.
Between the romance and Connors birth I can't remember these two characters interacting all that much.

In fact I can barely remember any really great character moments from that season that weren't in some way romance-related.
...And I've just realised what my least favourite season of Angel is. 😉

I agree with everything except the least favorite season thing (for me, that honor goes to S4). I would actually argue that Cordelia wasn't friends with anyone on the AI team except for Angel, and I agree I think that had a lot to do with the writers constantly forcing these interactions between Angel and Cordy in order to sell audiences on the idea that they were falling in love. The only other AI character Cordy seemed to develop a genuine friendship with was Doyle, and we all know how that ended. Otherwise, I honestly don't even think she cared about anyone on the team but Angel.

That being said, and getting more directly to the OP's question, I think Cordy had changed enough by ATS S3 that a friendship between her and Fred would've made sense to me. The problem is that said friendship didn't actually exist.

 

[VisionBoy]

So here's what I don't get, Cordelia bullied Willow for being a "geek" but yet she was ok hanging out with Fred?

Well Cordelia had grown up since then. Willow was the only Scoobie that we actually saw Cordy stay in contact with, so it's not an issue for her as an adult. Cordelia felt she needed to pick on geeks to be with the in crowd, but this is something she overcame by helping the Scoobies and dating Xander...that is until she reverted after the break up, but I'm ignoring that because it bugged me immensely. Although even then, she wasn't afraid of being seen with the "uncool" kids anymore.

Although I definitely thought there was some of her residual high school self screaming to come out during early season 3 especially. You could tell Fred tested her patience in episodes like "That Vision Thing". I don't think she'd ever be as mean to Fred as she was to Willow in high school because she'd grown up and developed a lot more empathy... but you could tell from her face she was oh so tempted haha.

Later on, we see her comforting Fred in "Carpe Noctum" and "Double or Nothing" and giving her relationship guidance... but you could say the same for other people; I think that was just who she'd grown into, not sure it made them great buddies or anything really; perhaps on some level she was trying to atone for her bully days more than instigating a real friendship. Fred seemed to have a bit of a hero worship thing for her; you know like how in The Big Bang Theory Amy is just over the moon to be socialising with someone who was so popular? They remind me of that a little, but without it ever really developing into anything more than acquaintances.

 

[bespangeled]

I agree with everything except the least favorite season thing (for me, that honor goes to S4). I would actually argue that Cordelia wasn't friends with anyone on the AI team except for Angel, and I agree I think that had a lot to do with the writers constantly forcing these interactions between Angel and Cordy in order to sell audiences on the idea that they were falling in love. The only other AI character Cordy seemed to develop a genuine friendship with was Doyle, and we all know how that ended. Otherwise, I honestly don't even think she cared about anyone on the team but Angel.

That being said, and getting more directly to the OP's question, I think Cordy had changed enough by ATS S3 that a friendship between her and Fred would've made sense to me. The problem is that said friendship didn't actually exist.

I disagree - Cordy and Wes definitely had a strong friendship, and there was an entire episode based on Cordy developing a friendship with Gunn. She and Fred did talk a bit - the 'you have to get out' conversation but then Fred was swallowed up with Frunn (the least chemistry I have seen in the entire 'verse)

 

[Aud]

I disagree - Cordy and Wes definitely had a strong friendship, and there was an entire episode based on Cordy developing a friendship with Gunn. She and Fred did talk a bit - the 'you have to get out' conversation but then Fred was swallowed up with Frunn (the least chemistry I have seen in the entire 'verse)

Ok I see your point, but I'm going to stick by my view. These one off interactions just aren't enough to convince me that there was genuine friendship there. Even the "you have to get out" thing was sort of at Angel's behest, if memory serves me right (I could be misremembering, though, so forgive me if I am).

And as for Cordy and Wes, I'll just say that if they had indeed shared a strong friendship, I would've thought she would've at least heard him out during the whole Connor kidnapping fallout. (Ok that was a pretty terrible thing Wesley did, but anybody who was a true friend to him would've at least tried to get his side of the story. We see Fred sort of struggle with this, but to no avail.) But Cordy made her allegiance to Angel clear and didn't really seem to care about anybody's opinions or feelings but his.

 

[bespangeled]

Ok I see your point, but I'm going to stick by my view. These one off interactions just aren't enough to convince me that there was genuine friendship there. Even the "you have to get out" thing was sort of at Angel's behest, if memory serves me right (I could be misremembering, though, so forgive me if I am).

And as for Cordy and Wes, I'll just say that if they had indeed shared a strong friendship, I would've thought she would've at least heard him out during the whole Connor kidnapping fallout. (Ok that was a pretty terrible thing Wesley did, but anybody who was a true friend to him would've at least tried to get his side of the story. We see Fred sort of struggle with this, but to no avail.) But Cordy made her allegiance to Angel clear and didn't really seem to care about anybody's opinions or feelings but his.

Cordy was off with Groo when it all went down, and no one contacted her. I assumed - once she returned - that since Wesley made no attempt to seek her out, she made no attempt to seek him out. But you are definitely right that her first loyalty was Angel. He had just lost his child, and she knew what Connor meant to him.

 

[Taake]

Like has been said by others. I never really felt like Cordy was friends with Fred. In fact I kind of felt like, at the start at least, she only just tolerated Fred's presence and would probably have gotten over it quite quickly if Fred had left permanently with her parents. Did we ever really get to see the two of them interact (not about work or men)? Just the two of them in a friendly manner? I can't recall a single instance so I'm just asking if there were any?

Cordy was off with Groo when it all went down, and no one contacted her. I assumed - once she returned - that since Wesley made no attempt to seek her out, she made no attempt to seek him out. But you are definitely right that her first loyalty was Angel. He had just lost his child, and she knew what Connor meant to him.

I do completely understand this. But I still think it was shitty of her (and the rest of them - except Angel that is) to turn their backs on Wes like that. Cordy if anyone should have reached out to him and it's just another step in what I view as her character assassination that she didn't.

 

[thetopher]

I do completely understand this. But I still think it was shitty of her (and the rest of them - except Angel that is) to turn their backs on Wes like that. Cordy if anyone should have reached out to him and it's just another step in what I view as her character assassination that she didn't.

I agree.
Since Cordelia wasn't around for any of this I think she would've at least gone to see Wesley to get his side of things- because she's Cordelia. She would've been suprememly pissed at him, but also would've wanted to know what he was thinking. I find the fact that she didn't bother to go see hhim more evidence of Cordelia acted much less Cordelia-like in S3 thanks to Cangel. 🙄
Wesley and her were friends since the end of Season 1 (even if they put each others backs up occasionally) and it's sad to think that after 'Coupling' the only other time 'real' Cordelia and Wesley interact is in S5 'You're Welcome' years later. 🙁

 

[Aud]

I agree.
Since Cordelia wasn't around for any of this I think she would've at least gone to see Wesley to get his side of things- because she's Cordelia. She would've been suprememly pissed at him, but also would've wanted to know what he was thinking. I find the fact that she didn't bother to go see hhim more evidence of Cordelia acted much less Cordelia-like in S3 thanks to Cangel. 🙄
Wesley and her were friends since the end of Season 1 (even if they put each others backs up occasionally) and it's sad to think that after 'Coupling' the only other time 'real' Cordelia and Wesley interact is in S5 'You're Welcome' years later. 🙁

I agree here, too. It always baffled me that there was never so much as a "Hey, care to explain yourself, Wes?" or even a "What were you thinking, Wes?" The entire team (other than Fred, at moments) just shunned him altogether. And I was pointing to this as evidence not just of the lack of friendship between Cordy and Wesley, but between Cordy and really any non-Angel member of AI in S3. S1 ended on a really sweet note with Angel, Cordy and Wes really solidifying their bonds as a little family. But by the time Fred is a series regular in S3, a lot of that dynamic has been lost in order to make room for the coupling, which means Cordy and Fred really didn't even have the opportunity to become friends.

 

[Blaze]

Regardless of whether they were really friend, I think people underestimate Cordy's ability to see past someone's exterior (geekiness included). It's true that she was a bully and everything on BtVS, but honestly I think a lot of it is a front that Cordelia put. I don't actually think that she changed all that much from BtVS to AtS, she just became more herself.

Throughout s1-3 of Buffy, we see glimpses of how she is. From s1/2, even if she claimed to hate the Scoobies, she still helped them. After she broke up with Xander, guess what, she stuck around. With no reason whatsoever to do so. In the end, Cordelia was never as bad as she made herself out to be, actually she was always a good person, that at times did some shitty things. And she might not have been friends with Willow, but she dated Xander, oh and lets not forget how she liked Weskey. Which was a HUGE geek when he showed up to Sunnydale. And she obviously loved Doyle (as a friend, as more, whichever), which again was not a typical guy that you would picture a girl like Cordelia getting along with. Conclusion, Cordy likes to talk big or put on this front, but the truth is that I doubt she was ever as superficial as she tried to show us.

 

[thetopher]

Also I always got the impression that Willow was the only one Cordelia kept in contact with after she left Sunnydale- they were friendly enough with each other from S2 onwards. I think its in 'Phases' that they start bonding over guys, Xander and Oz, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Blaze]

Good point thetopher, aren't we shown on the show that Willow and Cordelia talk over the phone?

 

[VisionBoy]

Yes we are, there are a couple of occasions and then Willow makes a point of going up and seeing Cordelia in "Orpheus"; Wesley noting that they go way back, but sadly it's not actually Cordy 🙁
If Cordelia was to be a main character in season 5, it could've been an excuse for Willow to guest star again. Somehow I can't imagine her even breaking a sweat waking someone from a mystical coma.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

At the beginning of season 3 Cordelia thinks Fred is a little odd and I think she avoids talking to her a few times. I'm not sure their friendship develops much further by the end of the season. She tolerates Fred and can be friendly at times but I think she does it more because she is almost obligated to and not because she is a true friend to Fred. I don't know if it was because Fred is the Angel version of Willow or if she just doesn't really bother to get to know Fred. Cordelia definitely matures when it comes to dealing with people over the first 2 1/2 seasons. I agree her character started to fall apart.

 

[Mr Trick]

I don't think she ever had anything against Fred, but no they didn't really know each other enough to be friends. They were on the same side so Cordy was smart enough to treat her with respect but that was about it. And yeah of course she had matured since the days of making fun of Willow.