Would Dark Willow have been able to take Glory?

Halfrek

Halfrek

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Watching Tough Love made me think about whether Willow would have been a match for Glory when she went evil in season 6. Glory's sucking Tara's brains brought out a dark side to Willow we hadn't seen before and Tara dying a year later made her almost unstoppable.

For the time Glory was about it was kind of ambiguous as to what would kill her seeing as she was eliminated by Giles killing Ben...so it's hard to tell whether she would have been able to be destroyed at all. But if she could be, would Willow at the height of her power in season 6 have been the one to do it?

Just got me thinking as I'm re-watching season 5 🙂
 
I think so. Glory's invulnerability wasn't nearly as apparent when she was up against magic. She shook off Willow's glass attack, knives and snake just fine, but notice how the lightning attack really seemed to hurt her? Physically attacking Glory doesn't do much unless you have a god hammer... blasting her with magical energies on the other hand, seems to be a lot more effective. Whether Willow would have been able to destroy her, I dunno. But she could have hurt her a hell of a lot more than anyone else IMO.
 
Willow would have been able to neutralize Glory with teleportation spells. Teleport her somewhere far and nasty enough and she's pretty much history.
 
lrsrusty said:
Like Buffy said, Willow was the only one that even came close to hurting Glory. That was before she even had super mojo powers. I'm not sure if there is anything Willow can't do.
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I'm not really that sure. Just because Buffy said it doesn't necessarily make it true, and nothing that I saw Willow do caused more damage than shredding a dress and making Glory scream, neither one a real indication of anything more that irritation and possibly pain. If Buffy had said something like "Of all of us, Willow came the closest to hurting Glory," (only slightly different phrasing, but not necessarily the same thing) I could have accepted that much more readily. Irritation and some degree of pain, from which Glory very quickly recovered, isn't all that close to actually injuring and incapacitating a hell god.

The teleportation idea has merit, but if Willow, either dark or not, were capable of teleporting Glory into another dimension, why not just send her home in the first place? And that's not "taking," that's "sending."
 
I know this thread is old but I have the biggest urge to post.

No, Dark Willow would not be able to take Glory and let me tell you why. Glory has super speed, all she really needs to do is to go into fast mode and brain suck Willow or she could just rip out Willow's spine and be done with it. Despite all that magic, Dark Willow is still human and can be killed. Willow's attack on Glory in Season 5 is extremely overrated. Sure, Willow caused her pain but that's all she did. Just causing pain is no where near enough to even beat Glory in a fight or even injure her for that matter. After that, Glory destroyed Willow in that fight and had her at her mercy. In my view, Dark Willow in Season 6 will always be 2nd to Glory.

Glory stomps.
 
EVIL UU said:
Willow casts spells at the speed of thought. Glory's not faster than that.



Buffy's strong enough to kill a human with one hit. She managed to do exactly nothing to Willow in "Two To Go".
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Actually she can be, it depends on how far away Glory is standing. It took less than a second for Glory to travel from one side of a large room to the other. I'm absolutely confident that Glory would be able to strike Willow before she could react. How many times has Buffy hit a human with no fatalities? She punched Giles extremely hard twice and all it did was knock him to the ground or knock him unconscious. She has hit a few Knights of Byzantium with little result. Glory's strength greatly dwarfs Buffy's in fact I'd argue that Glory demonstrated the most impressive feats of strength in both shows. Not only that but if Glory were to hit someone in fast mode, the force of the impact would dramatically increase in comparison to her just hitting someone while standing still. Glory also claimed that she could rip Dawn's spine out before she could take half a step. Willow never showed any ability to overcome Glory's durability, not once. Magic has shown to hurt and slightly weaken Glory but not enough to 'KO' her. Even if Willow can sling a spell before Glory could get to her, It don't see it doing to much damage.
 
Dark Willow teleports Glory high into the air (she's done it before), Glory falls to the ground, weakened turns into Ben. Dark Willow incinerates Ben.
 
thetopher said:
Dark Willow teleports Glory high into the air (she's done it before), Glory falls to the ground, weakened turns into Ben. Dark Willow incinerates Ben.
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We don't know if that will turn her into Ben though, we didn't see what happened to Glory after Willow did that in Season 5. And that's assuming Dark Willow can teleport Glory before she (Glory) can get to her.
 
TheComeBackKid said:
We don't know if that will turn her into Ben though, we didn't see what happened to Glory after Willow did that in Season 5.
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No we don't, but we do see that Glory doesn't show up for many episodes after that big drop from the sky- there's a long gap between 'Blood Ties' and 'Intervention'- about 4 episodes.
We also know that after being hit by a truck (i.e taking enough damage) Glory turns back into Ben and remains that way for a little while.
Logically then something kept Glory from returning for such a long period of time- that's enough for me to see that Dark Willow would win against a Hell god who's got a pretty appalling sense of tactics when it comes to fighting.
Dark Willow is smarter and more powerful than Glory. For me that means that she wins.
 
thetopher said:
No we don't, but we do see that Glory doesn't show up for many episodes after that big drop from the sky- there's a long gap between 'Blood Ties' and 'Intervention'- about 4 episodes.
We also know that after being hit by a truck (i.e taking enough damage) Glory turns back into Ben and remains that way for a little while.
Logically then something kept Glory from returning for such a long period of time- that's enough for me to see that Dark Willow would win against a Hell god who's got a pretty appalling sense of tactics when it comes to fighting.
Dark Willow is smarter and more powerful than Glory. For me that means that she wins.
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I respect your opinion but I'll have to disagree with you. We do notice that Glory didn't return for awhile but it hasn't been proven that Glory turned into Ben after the gigantic fall. Glory changed back into Ben because it was time to change back into Ben. In the comics, a slayer was hit by a truck and it had little result and Glory's durability is far beyond that of a slayer. The truck did nothing to Glory and perhaps the reason why Glory reverted was because that Ben may not have surfaced for awhile. Another interesting point, if Dark Willow was dealing with Glory before the shroud that kept people from knowing that Glory and Ben were one dissipated, then Dark Willow will not know that Ben is linked to Glory at all. You have to remember that Glory needed Buffy alive to find The Key, if Glory thought that Buffy had no knowledge of The Key's whereabouts, then Buffy and the Scoobies would be massacred. Glory even said herself that she always went for the hurt, not the kill, resorting to trading blows with the slayer instead of driving her fist through her heart. Glory also considered Buffy and the Scoobies inferior to her, that's why she didn't really put any effort into her fights with Buffy or Willow.

Dark Willow only seemed more powerful because her powers were big and flashy. Glory overall demonstrated more impressive feats. Dark Willow may be more versatile with power but Glory's powers are far more effective (i.e Super Speed). Glory can just use super speed and brain suck Willow and the fight is over, Dark Willow loses. Furthermore, Willow showed no ability to overcome Glory's durability. Magic has only ever shown to hurt or slightly weaken Glory, not injure or beat her in a full toe to toe fight.
 
TheComeBackKid said:
Glory changed back into Ben because it was time to change back into Ben. In the comics, a slayer was hit by a truck and it had little result and Glory's durability is far beyond that of a slayer. The truck did nothing to Glory and perhaps the reason why Glory reverted was because that Ben may not have surfaced for awhile.
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But that's not what we're told/shown. We are shown that Glory, when weakened/damaged enough, turns back into Ben. That's what happened when Glory was hit by the truck and what happened when Buffy hit Glory enough times with the God hammer- Glory runs out of suficient power to 'break out' of her Ben-prison and goes back to being normal.

TheComeBackKid said:
Another interesting point, if Dark Willow was dealing with Glory before the shroud that kept people from knowing that Glory and Ben were one, then Dark Willow will not know that Ben is linked to Glory at all.
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If Spike can see through the Glory/Ben link then miss 'I am The Magicks' certainly can.

TheComeBackKid said:
You have to remember that Glory needed Buffy alive to find The Key, if Glory thought that Buffy had no knowledge of The Key's whereabouts, then Buffy and the Scoobies would be massacred.
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Nope Glory didn't need Buffy alive to find the key, she took a really long time to find out where the key was. Ben told Glory enough to figure it out eventually. Glory 'left' Buffy alive because 1) Buffy kept on running away when she lost and 2) Glory was too arrogant/lazy/stupid to consider Bufyf a threat

TheComeBackKid said:
Glory even said herself that she always went for the hurt, not the kill, resorting to trading blows with the slayer instead of driving her fist through her heart. Glory also considered Buffy and the Scoobies inferior to her, that's why she didn't really put any effort into her fights with Buffy or Willow.
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Yeah well if Glory says that then of course its the truth, or maybe its because Glory is deeply stupid and over confident. There's no reason to beleive that she would treat DW exactly the same- underestimate her and then get dead real quick.
You're assuming that Glory knows exactly how powerful DW is and so takes the exact steps to beat her. Glory is too arrogant/lazy for that sort of tactical thinking. DW on the other hand at least shows some flexiblitiy of thought when it comes to defeating her opponents. Can't blast them with magic? Then she'll beast them to death with her bare hands, or set earth minions on them, or drain them of their magicks. How about Dark Willow drains all that mind energy from Glory? (just like Willow did in 'The Gift') and so leaves Glory a weak, babbling chick with a bad home perm?

Anyway, your view/my view. 🙂
 
thetopher said:
But that's not what we're told/shown. We are shown that Glory, when weakened/damaged enough, turns back into Ben. That's what happened when Glory was hit by the truck and what happened when Buffy hit Glory enough times with the God hammer- Glory runs out of suficient power to 'break out' of her Ben-prison and goes back to being normal.

I'm not saying that if you weaken Glory enough, she won't revert. I'm saying that Glory can also randomly revert into Ben. The Truck did nothing to Glory and not to mention that even when Glory hasn't been weakened at all, she can still revert.

If Spike can see through the Glory/Ben link then miss 'I am The Magicks' certainly can.


Nope Glory didn't need Buffy alive to find the key, she took a really long time to find out where the key was. Ben told Glory enough to figure it out eventually. Glory 'left' Buffy alive because 1) Buffy kept on running away when she lost and 2) Glory was too arrogant/lazy/stupid to consider Bufyf a threat



Yeah well if Glory says that then of course its the truth, or maybe its because Glory is deeply stupid and over confident. There's no reason to beleive that she would treat DW exactly the same- underestimate her and then get dead real quick.
You're assuming that Glory knows exactly how powerful DW is and so takes the exact steps to beat her. Glory is too arrogant/lazy for that sort of tactical thinking. DW on the other hand at least shows some flexiblitiy of thought when it comes to defeating her opponents. Can't blast them with magic? Then she'll beast them to death with her bare hands, or set earth minions on them, or drain them of their magicks. How about Dark Willow drains all that mind energy from Glory? (just like Willow did in 'The Gift') and so leaves Glory a weak, babbling chick with a bad home perm?

Anyway, your view/my view. 🙂
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I'm not saying that if you weaken Glory enough, she won't revert. I'm saying that Glory can also randomly revert into Ben. The Truck did nothing to Glory and not to mention that even when Glory hasn't been weakened at all, she can still revert. Spike can see through the Glory/Ben link because he is NOT human. Dark Willow however is human and therefore will forget that Glory and Ben are one. While not as powerful, Willow in Season 5 was affected by the shroud. Yes, Glory needed Buffy alive because she knew that Buffy was guarding The Key. If she didn't, then why didn't Glory just kill Buffy when she went to threaten her for The Key's whereabouts? Glory even stated that The Key was the only thing keeping Buffy alive. However, it is true that Glory never considered Buffy a threat. Why? Because Glory is far more powerful than the slayer. That is exactly what you are doing with Dark Willow, counting the exact steps it takes to beat Glory. Dark Willow's fireballs and energy blasts would do barely anything to Glory, as I stated before, Magic has only ever shown to hurt or slightly weaken Glory, not injure or KO her. For the energy drain to work, Dark Willow would have to get close to Glory and It wouldn't be a smart move for her to do. If Dark Willow tried to get close to Glory, Glory would just send her flying with one blow. I'm extremely certain that Glory would not underestimate Dark Willow due to Willow proving that she could already cause Glory pain. Even if Glory doesn't use Super Speed straight away, she has more than enough durability to take whatever Dark Willow throws at her. On top of that, Dark Willow's magic is finite. Eventually Glory will use super speed and therefore kill or brain suck Willow, ending the fight. The only way I see Dark Willow winning is if Glory randomly reverts to Ben.

Yes, your view/my view. I love having these kind of discussions with people about Buffy, gives me a chance to geek out 🙂
 
EVIL UU said:


Spoiler: it couldn't handle her. Glory's tough but she's not old one-level tough.
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That's Comic Willow, of course she's going to stomp Glory then however I'm referring to Season 6 Dark Willow. If Glory fought Dark Willow in Season 6, then in my view, Glory wins. Glory in her true hell god form vs Comic Willow would be a fight I'd love to see. It's a shame we haven't seen Glory before she was imprisoned.
 
Dark Willow had quite a bit more mojo than the Willow who actually fought against Glory. But I still don't think it would be enough. There was nothing indicating that Glory was susceptible to any of the spells and fireballs that Dark Willow used. Giles in his magic-infused state (from the coven) managed to deal a setback to Dark Willow and Glory would no doubt have even more power than that. If they could get more Dagon spheres to try and weaken Glory, there might be a possibility if they still had Thor's hammer, but my money would still be on Glory.
 
I think the whole thing depends on how Glory would perceive Dark Willow in the first place, rather than on how much power Willow has. If Glory does not take Willow seriously for a long time, than Willow would win through tactical action, combining spells and that like. If Glory however does take Willow seriously, then Glory would win. The point is that Glory is not only stronger than Willow physically, she is also an adept in dark Magicks and can perform extremely powerful spells without even taking damage, as we have seen when she conjured the snake. Thus, when she used all she has to the fullest, she would win.
 
Was Dark Willow strong enough to teleport her into space? Normal Willow transported her high into the sky in S05 and since DW is much more powerful...
Would be interesting to know if Glory would survive re-entry into Earth's atmosphere or Willow even might have been strong enough to send her out of gravity. At least far enough that Glory would change back to Ben while still in space. 😀

Seriously now, Willow had quite some tricks to stall and confuse Glory but nothing that was able to kill her ultimately. DW would be more successful but she'd need an ace up her sleeve. Indirect approaches not a one on one fight. Teleport her into a vulcano? Conjure Thor's Hammer and manipulate Buffy to beat Glory to death with it? Or she sucks up her power like she did with Giles. Well, that could backfire... She makes a Revelation spell and Glory changes back to easy to be killed Ben. She certainly would need to stay out of Glory's grasp.
 
DoktorRock said:
Was Dark Willow strong enough to teleport her into space? Normal Willow transported her high into the sky in S05 and since DW is much more powerful...
Would be interesting to know if Glory would survive re-entry into Earth's atmosphere or Willow even might have been strong enough to send her out of gravity. At least far enough that Glory would change back to Ben while still in space. 😀

Seriously now, Willow had quite some tricks to stall and confuse Glory but nothing that was able to kill her ultimately. DW would be more successful but she'd need an ace up her sleeve. Indirect approaches not a one on one fight. Teleport her into a vulcano? Conjure Thor's Hammer and manipulate Buffy to beat Glory to death with it? Or she sucks up her power like she did with Giles. Well, that could backfire... She makes a Revelation spell and Glory changes back to easy to be killed Ben. She certainly would need to stay out of Glory's grasp.
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The problem with that is Glory could easily kill or beat DW before the latter could even think about doing any of those things, remember Glory has super speed and could brain-suck Willow in less than a second. However, if Glory acts the way she did when Willow fought her in Season 5, then she (Willow) may pull off a victory however it's unlikely in my opinion. I'd even argue that Glory could hold her own against Pre-Mutari Illyria (her TV version of course).
 
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