Would Faith have killed Buffy if...?

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IloveBuffy

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Would Faith had killed Buffy in graduation day part 1, if Buffy had not stabbed her. Their fight took them to the top of the roof, close to the ledge, both had a hold on the other. Faith says something like 'Man i'm gonna miss this.' Then Buffy sticks it to her.

So i'm thinking, Faith always seemed like a show off to me and if she wanted Buffy dead why not just shoot her with an arrow to the heart instead of shooting Angel with poison. Faith also saved Buffy just before joining the mayor, stopped a demon spider from attacking them (i may be remembering that wrongly), she kissed buffy on the head instead of trying to attack her and looked unhappy/ confused when the mayor suggested 'let's kill your little friend' aka Buffy.

So do you think she actually wanted to kill Buffy and would have thrown her off the building?
 
No, I don't think Faith ever would have been able to find it within herself to kill Buffy. She was very much talk when it came to actually harming Buffy. At the end of the day, through everything, I think that she loved Buffy too much to kill her. It seems to me that all Faith ever really wanted was to feel like she was fully accepted and loved by B. (By the by, I did not mean that "love" to be in a romantic sense. That is a topic for another thread.)
 
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SlayerOfVampyrs said:
No, I don't think Faith ever would have been able to find it within herself to kill Buffy. She was very much talk when it came to actually harming Buffy. At the end of the day, through everything, I think that she loved Buffy too much to kill her. It seems to me that all Faith ever really wanted was to feel like she was fully accepted and loved by B. (By the by, I did not mean that "love" to be in a romantic sense. That is a topic for another thread.)
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I agree, she was all talk. And I thought she wanted Buffy's attention. That's why she went crazy again when she woke from the coma, because Buffy tried to kill her then left her alone in hospital and they all forgot she existed.
 
I don't think Faith would ever have had it in her to kill Buffy. Faith was pretty cold to most everyone else, but Buffy had the ability to get to her more than she would have ever been willing to admit. Buffy and Faith shared a deep connection. Faith could have easily killed Buffy with an arrow to the head/heart or some other sneak attack if she really wanted to, and she never did it.
 
No, I don't think Faith would have killed her that night. Faith seemed to enjoy fighting with Buffy and giving her trouble; killing her then would have taken the "fun" out of her plan with the Mayor.

The only way I can see Faith actually killing Buffy is if Faith was in a situation in which she truly believed it was kill her or be killed herself.
 
Faith tried to kill Angel. Maybe she wanted Angel to kill Buffy when she forced him to drink Buffys blood.
I think that in the final battle the two (Buffy and Faith) had been lost in their figth, just seeing everything black and white and pushed up by adrenalin. Otherwise I am sure that Buffy would never try to kill a human. She blamed herself more than once for the "kill" later.

So yes if Faith had a chance she would have killed Buffy just as Buffy nearly killed Faith. If she would have regrett this later, this is still another question.
 
WWGD said:
I think she would have killed Buffy in the heat of the battle, then grew to regret it later.
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I agree with this. I don't think that Faith really wanted to kill Buffy but she was a very action-prone person, between fight or flight, she was all about the fight in my eyes. So yes, hadn't she been stabbed I think she would have rashly at the very least mortally wounded Buffy.

I do think however that she would have lived to regret that immensely, but at the point in time, yes, I do think she would have gone through with it.
 
Uh, no. I actually think Faith wanted Buffy to kill her- ever since 'Enemies' she seemed to want to push Buffy in that direction, at least subconsciously.
There are plenty of times where she goes for the hurt rather than the kill, in S3 and 4. It's like she just wants Buffy to notice her, no matter what.
Makes you wonder...😀

But I think she would've killed other people that she didn't care anything about- Xander, Willow, Giles- anybody else, but not Buffy.
 
Buffy might very well have been one of the two people in the world (Wilkins being the other one, for totally different reasons, not important here) who Faith, at that time, in her state of mind, would definitely NOT have killed. Beaten her, certainly, and, at that time, she had a pretty good chance of doing so, but never kill her. Faith would have wanted Buffy to know, and carry that knowledge always, that the REAL Slayer had kicked her ass. She said there in Season 3 somewhere that she was supposed to be the one girl in all he world, the Slayer, but all she ever heard was "Buffy, Buffy, Buffy..." She said in Season 7 that she had been jealous of Buffy's family, her home, and her friends, and, though she never specifically said it, I really think that she was most jealous of Buffy's status.

Faith was THE Slayer, after all. Buffy was A Slayer, or maybe, technically, an EX-Slayer, or even something else altogether, a totally new category of demon fighter, if such a thing could be, but she was two generations removed from being the "one girl in all the world." She was doing the job, sure, but it was Faith who carried the figurative badge of office.

Faith wanted to beat Buffy, to put her in her rightful place as only Number 2, certainly, but the victory wouldn't be complete unless Buffy had to live with that knowledge. Buffy had to be beaten, but live to tell the tale.
 
thetopher
thetopher
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thetopher said:
Uh, no. I actually think Faith wanted Buffy to kill her- ever since 'Enemies' she seemed to want to push Buffy in that direction, at least subconsciously.
There are plenty of times where she goes for the hurt rather than the kill, in S3 and 4. It's like she just wants Buffy to notice her, no matter what.
Makes you wonder...😀

But I think she would've killed other people that she didn't care anything about- Xander, Willow, Giles- anybody else, but not Buffy.
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I completely agree. Faith could have killed a lot of people, but not Buffy. In the end, Faith had this messed up love for Buffy (whether it was envy, anger or anything else), she might have wanted to hurt her, but never kill her. Even when she is "evil" we see those glimpses of Faith helping Buffy, saving her even.

I also agree that Faith wanted Buffy to kill her. It's a bit like Lindsey with Angel, and the whole it was suppose to be Angel. In the end, the only person that Faith could accept death from is Buffy herself (and later on Angel). Faith knew she was messed up, she didn't even know how to show love, but one think that is consistent with her is that she seem to only want punishment from someone she cares for. And Faith's whole plan of poisoning Angel when there's only two slayers and B is the other one, Faith was asking for death.

If she would have killed Buffy, I think it would have been accidental and a spur of the moment action. Faith didn't seem to be able to premeditate Buffy death, or else the arrow would not have went to Angel.

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION] also has a good point, Faith wanted to prove herself to Buffy. She wanted to have what Buffy had, and she thought she had to show off Buffy for that.
 
I, too agree with [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION]. Faith wanted Buffy to acknowlege her as the slayer, as number one. That could've factored into her reasoning.

I remembered how much Faith loved being Buffy in 'Who Are You?', becoming her, even if it meant horribly violating her and taking everything from her to do it. It was more than just becoming 'the slayer' or the girl with the friends/Mom/Watcher. It was about becoming Buffy specifically, for whatever reason.

And I think early on Faith knows that she's not acting like a slayer should, that she has deep self-loathing issues (I'm thinking of Willow's awesome speech to her in 'Choices' and how it really hits a nerve)- this only really manifests itself when the Mayor isn't around to validate her when S4 rolls around.
 
I don't think that Faith would have killed Buffy, she seems surprised when Buffy stabs her. It's all just a game to Faith, she just wants to fight Buffy and beat her so she can prove herself.
Now if Faith wanted Buffy to kill her, it might make sense. She does tell Buffy that she will never take her alive. Maybe that's why shes so pissed in S4, not that Buffy almost killed her, but that Buffy didn't. It's an interesting theory, fits in with what she does on Angel.
 
Fuffy Baith said:
I don't think that Faith would have killed Buffy, she seems surprised when Buffy stabs her. It's all just a game to Faith, she just wants to fight Buffy and beat her so she can prove herself.
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Yeah, Faith wanted to beat Buffy, and she wanted to beat her fairly, face to face, hand to hand, the Slayer equivalent of Spike's fists and fangs analogy. That's why she was so shocked when Buffy stabbed her. Say whatever you want to about Faith, she was fighting as fairly as that kind of fight could ever be, and she was holding her own quite well. It was anybody's guess who actually was the best fighter. Then Buffy had to cheat! That, as much as any pain associated with the knife wound, was what shocked Faith.

In Buffy's defense, she wasn't there to fight any sort of fair contest, and she didn't really care which was the better fighter. She was there to get something, Slayer blood, that would save the man that she loved. The Marquis of Queensberry never entered into her thinking.
 
thetopher
thetopher
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Xin Rong
Xin Rong
Completely agree
Did some of you skip over the Enemies episode? Faith was going to slowly torture Buffy to death with the assistance of one of the most infamous vampires in history and a smile on her face. She had no issue at all with killing Buffy.
 
The Bronze said:
Did some of you skip over the Enemies episode? Faith was going to slowly torture Buffy to death with the assistance of one of the most infamous vampires in history and a smile on her face. She had no issue at all with killing Buffy.
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In the end, Faith chokes. She had a knife at Buffy throat and did nothing. Yes it was a stalemate, but that doesn't mean that she couldn't have made the move (she knew Buffy wouldn't kill her). I think she absolutely wanted to torture Buffy, both physically and mentally (which is why she chose Angel), but again, I just thing she wanted to show her up. She wanted to take everything that Buffy had and let her watch while she took it. It was never really about killing her in my opinion.
 
For somebody who was going to torture and kill Buffy Faith does an awful lot of talking and not much of anything else, even when Buffy goads her. (which, given what we know afterwards, wasn't a particularly smart thing to do.)

It's clear to me watching it that Faith was getting herself worked up, angry and ranting, trying to justify, hell even explain herself to Buffy. A lot of the analysis on this thread seems to fit perfectly with what we see in 'Enemies'. Faith wanted Buffy to understand her and to recognise her as the slayer ('This was supposed to be my town!' etc.)

Hell, maybe Faith wouldn't have even gone through with it, once she started with the pain inflicting. The only time she actually tortured somebody it was Wesley and by that time Faith was too far gone to care about anything, she just wanted Angel to kill her.

You seem to be implying that the people here are making excuses for Faith's actions. We're not, we're analysing them and trying to make sense of them. Why would Faith consistantly fail to even attempt killing Buffy, she could've shot her with an arrow from a rooftop away, or gone after her at school. But she didn't, which is curious to say the least.

I think anybody here believes that if The Mayor had asked, or even if Faith had been angry/worked up enough, she would've killed Willow. Xander, Giles or anybody else without a second thought.
She did evil things, but she rarely tried to directly harm Buffy, unless Buffy forced her hand somehow. ('Enemies', 'Graduation Day', there first meeting in 'This Year's Girl.')
 
Blaze
Blaze
Agreed.
From the enemies script.

ANGEL
Well, gee sir, I thought I'd find that slayer who's giving you so much trouble and torture, maim, and kill her.

MAYOR
Fine! Nice to hear you're not one of those "slacker" types running around today. Torture Buffy. Killing her's fine, but make it a slow one.

ANGEL
My favorite kind.

MAYOR
Wonderful. We don't want a replacement Slayer anytime soon. They can't all turn out like my girl Faith. Have fun!

FAITH
Let's do it.

And then a bit later...

FAITH
Keep dreaming. No one can stop the Ascension! Mayor's got it wired, B. He built this town for the demons to feed on and come Graduation day, he's getting paid. I'll be sitting at his right hand - assuming he has hands after the transformation, I'm not too clear on that - and all your lame ass friends'll be kibbles and bits. Think about that while your boyfriend's cutting into you.

So yes this is all talking on Faith's part. Except she has sided with The Mayer and is more than happy to help him kill Buffy's friends. In her mind she is happy that she restored and Angelus and is preparing to enjoy the slow torture and murder. The only reason it doesn't happen is because she failed to remove Angels soul (and you know it's Buffy's show so her being tortured to death on screen was always a little unlikely).
 
Note the '...when your boyfriends cutting into you.' Seems like Faith is going to let Angelus do the torture after all, which I'd forgotten about. 😉

And Faith could've cut Buffy, even a little, without affecting the outcome of the plot. It didn't have to be all or nothing- except we get nothing from her. All talk and gloating.

And now its clear your not listening, I just finished saying in my last post that we all accept that Faith had thrown her lot in with the Mayor- she was willing to be party to mass murder, at least in theory. She was a villain, she was willing to kill. But Buffy was always the focus of her anger and yet she seems reluctant to attack/harm her, herself, preferring others to do it.
The question is why? That's what the thread is about.

Faith undergo's an evolution during the season- in 'Enemies' she kills a relatively harmless demon, in 'Choices' she kills a human (criminal type) quickly and cleanly, from a distance. In 'Graduation Day' she brutally stabs an innocent man to death because she's told to.
Faith's evil becomes less talk and more action the more the season progresses, which is why I'm positive that she couldn't have actually tortured Buffy herself, she had to get 'Angelus' to do it, its the only thing that makes sense to her character at that point.
 
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