Would Faith Helped Handle Glory?

[white avenger]

We have the scene in Season 4 of "Angel" when Wes tells Faith about the situation in LA, and how little time that it takes for Faith to break out. Now, my question is, if someone, probably Willow, had gone to her when Glory showed up and asked her for help handling the situation, would Faith's reaction been the same, or would she have stayed where she was?

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Ooh this is a good question. I think it depends on how much we think Faith cares for Buffy. I guess it would have to be either Willow or Giles. Now that I think about it, should Giles have asked the Watcher's Council for more backup? Nah, the WC is useless the less they need them the better. So maybe Willow goes to Faith and says "Hey we need your help fighting a hell god because she is going to kill Dawn and open a portal to hell." I'm thinking Faith would have said something similar to what she said to Wesley until he said Angel was gone. So I'm thinking Willow would have had to say that Buffy is going to sacrifice herself, then that would get Faith's attention. Maybe Faith would have done better at protecting Dawn then Spike, since she is stronger. But once Dawn's blood is spilled there was nothing she could do to stop Buffy from sacrificing herself.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think Faith would have said "not my problem" "Oh, she's going to die? She's done it before" and would have still been sitting in the clink. Angel gave her a new life, Buffy just took her old.

 

[dillonk47polik]

(I'm not so sure that Willow would have been the one to talk to Faith about Glory considering Willow's hatred for Faith; the only reason Willow brought back Faith with her from L.A. in "Dirty Girls" was because Willow was needed in L.A.) Anyway...

We have to consider the amount of time Faith had been in jail at the time that Glory had shown up. Faith went to gail in "Sanctuary" near the end of ATS S1. Glory was the big bad in BTVS S5 which occurred during the same time as ATS S2. This would mean that Faith would have only been in prison for less than a year (or a whole season). This makes me think that Faith would probably say that she shouldn't put herself in a situation like that at that time because she still has a lot of stuff to work through mentally and that she needs to serve her time. So I don't think Faith would have helped.

And considering Faith's short prison time and unstable mentality, it's unlikely that Buffy would have put her in charge of protecting Dawn. I think at this point in the show Spike was more trusted by Buffy than Faith was.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Why would Faith be worried about jail? All the dimensions in the universe were going to bleed into one another and most were vastly worse than earth. If this was explained properly to her, she would have seen the significance, just the same as when she and Buffy were arrested in "Bad Girls 3ABB14" when Faith said:

Faith: We can't save the world in jail.

Then both of them kicked through the mesh and forced the police car to crash. There have been programs in the past (like the Dirty Dozen) where criminals have been assigned to the military rather than prison because there was a greater need there. Faith would certainly understand the priority of saving the world over serving time for manslaughter.

Remember, the first inkling we had of Dawn's existence was from Faith in the coma making the bed for little sis. Maybe she was more tuned in to the idea that someone was coming who would be valuable to a major enemy before Buffy herself figured it out. They may have diverged on how to stop Glory - Faith may have sided with Giles and figured Dawn had to die to protect the world, but there is no doubt there was a connection between Dawn and Faith.

 

[thetopher]

Firstly Willow would never ask Faith, she hated her even before Buffy did. So it would almost certainly be Giles (or somebody asking on Giles behalf) that would talk with Faith.
And if they explained it all- insanly powerful hell god, Dawn/the key in mortal danger, possible apocalypse, then Faith would've helped because ultimately she would see it as a chance to redeem herself (or start to).
She might've needed talking round (just like in 'Salvage') but this was Buffy, who she'd wronged quite a few times, and Dawn, Buffy's sister (who Faith had dreamed about before anybody else...) so it wasn't any ordinary 'save the world' situation.

As to if she'd made a difference to the outcome- undoubtedly. In 'the Gift' if Buffy had been able to take down Glory a few moments earlier, or if Spike or somebody had gotten to Dawn before Doc did then no bleeding, no opening portal, and Buffy wouldn't have needed to sacrifice herself.

A strong fighter like Faith would've made a huge difference in either instance and Dawn would've been able to be rescued.

But afterwards I think Faith would've wanted to return to jail to continue her rehabilitation, she wouldn't see 1 year as any sort of penance. But she might've at least had a few more visitors this time...

 

[white avenger]

Firstly Willow would never ask Faith, she hated her even before Buffy did. n.

But afterwards I think Faith would've wanted to return to jail to continue her rehabilitation, she wouldn't see 1 year as any sort of penance. But she might've at least had a few more visitors this time...

We agree that Faith would have definitely made a difference in the fight against Glory, possibly even eliminating the need for Buffy's death. Just as an explanation of your statement, however...

Why would Willow "never" ask Faith to help in Season 5, then ask, or accept Faith's offer, I can't remember exactly which happened, in Season 7? What changed during those 2 years? Also, I didn't get the feeling that there was any hatred coming from Willow during their trip alone back to Sunnydale. They weren't acting like long lost friends, but they didn't seem to be any feelings of hate or distrust, either. Are you saying that Faith's helping Angel's team somehow convinced Willow that Faith had changed that much, and that her intentions were, in fact, honorable?

And, after Season 7, Faith obviously didn't return to prison, and she was, apparently, still a wanted fugitive in Season 8, since part of her bargain with Giles was that he would somehow clear her record if she agreed to impersonate the English girl. Once more, what do you see as having changed between Season 5 and Season 7? Possibly Faith realizing that, with all the new Slayers popping up all over the world, she was genuinely doing more good free than in jail?

 

[thetopher]

Why would Willow "never" ask Faith to help in Season 5, then ask, or accept Faith's offer, I can't remember exactly which happened, in Season 7? What changed during those 2 years? Also, I didn't get the feeling that there was any hatred coming from Willow during their trip alone back to Sunnydale. They weren't acting like long lost friends, but they didn't seem to be any feelings of hate or distrust, either. Are you saying that Faith's helping Angel's team somehow convinced Willow that Faith had changed that much, and that her intentions were, in fact, honorable?

In S3 we saw that the first person to 'give up' on Faith was Willow. She called her a murderer and was pretty much ready to say good riddance to her as early on as 'Consequences', when Faith was genuinely saveable. At least until Wesely's interfereance.
Willow is also the most vocal opponent to Faith in S4- saying that Buffy should 'beat the crap' out of her from the get-go, openly calling Faith a slut-bomb in Tara's presence- that sort of thing.
That's fair enough, Faith's a bad guy, but this is Willow we're talking about, the woman who in the past has shown true compassion for murderers (James in IOHEFY, and Pete/Debbie in B&TB) where others (Buffy and Xander) have seen plain evil.

As to why I suspect it's that Willow (or a part of her at any rate) resented Faith not because of what she did (apart from the sleeping with Xander bit) but because she had power- power that she hadn't earned but was just handed for no real reason (see Dark Willow's speech to Buffy in S6) Part of Willow is also very jealous of Buffy' s power. 'I'm not you're sidekick! and so forth.
By S7 though Willow had changed. She, like Faith had known corruption due to power and had taken lives (and tried to kill her friends) because of it. She was therefore much more sympathetic to Faith's fall and subsequent path to atonement. I think they could relate to each other much better than they could before.

It would've been nice to see some sort of conversation about this but we can infer stuff (Willow sympathetically asking about jail, feeling genuine guilt for not warning Faith that she might be in danger, etc.) and see the change in Willow's attitude.
And, like you say, Faith had just helped out Angel and Co. which garnered a little trust (not really with Buffy) but it was Willow's experiences in S6 that made it so she could see where Faith was coming from.

And, after Season 7, Faith obviously didn't return to prison, and she was, apparently, still a wanted fugitive in Season 8, since part of her bargain with Giles was that he would somehow clear her record if she agreed to impersonate the English girl. Once more, what do you see as having changed between Season 5 and Season 7? Possibly Faith realizing that, with all the new Slayers popping up all over the world, she was genuinely doing more good free than in jail?

I was thinking more Angel's speech to Faith in 'Opheus' telling her not to give in and die, to keep fighting, and that her time was never up, that she still had more to do, had Faith thinking about not going back to prison after S7.
Add to that her couple of near-death experiences, getting drugged, blown up, nearly drowning and stuff. Maybe Faith figured that she really could do much more good out in the real world, where slayers like her were in need of guidance.
If she hadn't had all of that then maybe (and this is pure conjecture) she would've still thought she deserved prison even after helping defeat Glory.