Would he have stayed Cryptic Guy?

[GoSpuffy]

. Spike could've easily got the 'aviod any fight' route like Angel did. Spike needed something to fight for just like Angel. He needed 'the girl' to pick him up, tell him off and tell him what to do, otherwise he was busy hiding in a basement.

Spike lived for the fight, it was one of the differences between him and Angel. He could never "avoided the fight". And although we often saw him fighting for or with the girl in the buffy storyline it was not all he did, just during this part of his history. In world war 2 on the sub he was fighting germans for fun. And I don't think spike needed to be told what to do, I think he was just astute at realizing what his partner needed and then assisting her. Kind of one of the great things about him.

 

[Iwearthecheese]

Spike lived for the fight, it was one of the differences between him and Angel.

Not with a soul- Spike avoided violence unless it was to help Buffy- at least to begin with. It was only when she needed him to be 'more' than he stepped up and became more like his big, bad old self.

So I still think, with a soul and without anyone around, he would've been more like Angel- hiding, eating rats, maybe fighting other demons but maybe not. Spike had the two guiding lights that Angel never had- Angel himself and Buffy. With Angel he knew that he wasn't alone in that situation and Buffy gave him support and purpose.

 

[GoSpuffy]

Not with a soul- Spike avoided violence unless it was to help Buffy- at least to begin with. It was only when she needed him to be 'more' than he stepped up and became more like his big, bad old self.

So I still think, with a soul and without anyone around, he would've been more like Angel- hiding, eating rats, maybe fighting other demons but maybe not. Spike had the two guiding lights that Angel never had- Angel himself and Buffy. With Angel he knew that he wasn't alone in that situation and Buffy gave him support and purpose.

He had a much more outgoing personality. He always had friends around him, was never really alone. After Dru left he cultivated a friendship with Clem. He had his poker buddies. He was always seeking out the scoobies for conversation at the bronze. He liked watching passions with Giles or Joyce. Spike was a social guy who needed to talk and "chat things out" and be with people. He could never have lived on his own, completely out of character. I give you that with a soul the fight was no longer important but I have no doubt he would have found some way to connect with people and spend his time in useful endeavors and he wouldn't have needed Whistler to point the way.

 

[Iwearthecheese]

He had a much more outgoing personality. He always had friends around him, was never really alone.

Again, I'm talking about with a soul. Take away the years with the chip and the fighting for it- BAM! Spike is cursed with a soul and alone. I think yeah, he'd still end up like Angel a bit.
Remember that before Liam was the extrovert and Spike was the shy romantic. Angelus was one for high society and hobnobbing with humans- he wasn't content to sit in the sewers with the Master- same social butterfly (or poofter, as Spike would say!).
Angel also had plenty of friends on his own show as it went on, he just- on the whole- didn't think he deserved to have that many friends.

Conversely with a soul Spike didn't interact with anyone except Buffy for quite a while- he just seemed more comfortable in her company. It's not like he was partying with the Scoobs or anything. That changed a bit when he hung around with people he didn't have a bad history with onver on Angel S5.
With a soul I think they more in common that they like to admit.

 

[gite63]

Conversely with a soul Spike didn't interact with anyone except Buffy for quite a while- he just seemed more comfortable in her company. It's not like he was partying with the Scoobs or anything.

Spike was a social guy who needed to talk and "chat things out" and be with people. He could never have lived on his own, completely out of character. I give you that with a soul the fight was no longer important but I have no doubt he would have found some way to connect with people and spend his time in useful endeavors and he wouldn't have needed Whistler to point the way.

Spike always wanted to belong, but with the trauma of having a soul, he kept to himself; and sure Angel's example and Buffy's support made a big difference in how he coped with it.

But if he was all alone like Angel was, I believe it wouldn't have taken so many time for him to recover, he doesn't have a broody personality; and when he killed his mother, he wanted "to save" her, he was "helping" her, so maybe this trait of his would help him to figure out things a little faster, without the necessity of a Whistler pointing the way.

Of course, all this considering that he would have not been cursed with a soul, and there still would have been a time when Spike had a chip and evolved. Without this, cursed and no adaptation time...

 

[GoSpuffy]

Again, I'm talking about with a soul. Take away the years with the chip and the fighting for it- BAM! Spike is cursed with a soul and alone. I think yeah, he'd still end up like Angel a bit.
Remember that before Liam was the extrovert and Spike was the shy romantic. Angelus was one for high society and hobnobbing with humans- he wasn't content to sit in the sewers with the Master- same social butterfly (or poofter, as Spike would say!).
Angel also had plenty of friends on his own show as it went on, he just- on the whole- didn't think he deserved to have that many friends.

Conversely with a soul Spike didn't interact with anyone except Buffy for quite a while- he just seemed more comfortable in her company. It's not like he was partying with the Scoobs or anything. That changed a bit when he hung around with people he didn't have a bad history with onver on Angel S5.
With a soul I think they more in common that they like to admit.

I don't really count the first few seasons of season 7 when clearly he was crazy. But he quickly returned to that need to have connections with people once he had a soul. He had a friendly teasing relationship with Gunn saying rude things to him in the bathroom, a friendship with Fred and Illyria etc. Of course those first few weeks in the basement he wasn't feeling so social.

 

[nightshade]

This isn't a Spike vs Angel thread it's about Angel and how he was in the beginning of season 1 so can we keep on topic

 

[Iwearthecheese]

In that case I'll stand by initial judgement, in S1 Angel does things that have little or nothing to do with helping Buffy- he fights 'fork-guy' on his own and helps Giles get the Codex (and saves them all from Marcie), so it wasn't all about romance with him.
Therefore he still would've helped Buffy without the romance- hell, perhaps even more since he would have a clear goal uncluttered by any emotional interest beyond personal redemption.