Would YOU have cancelled it?

[T.I.P]

OK, this is an old old subject, but i aint read a 'did it deserved to be cancelled' thread yet.
Some people may still wonder how a Legendary cult classic like Buffy or Angel could be no more.
But, Is anyone THAT suprised it happened?

I never thought id say this, but imo, it was for the best they got cancelled. Altough the shows were still alright in their final seasons, they were going downhill fast.
If you look at the main things that made them great shows in the first place like characters, arcs and you could connect to the show on a personal level, they both seemed to lose sight of these vital ingredients.

The main characters from both shows just kind of grew stale and uninteresting in the last few seasons, and i think that goes for every single main character. imo, they(the writers) began to focus far to much on the wrong things.

The supporting characters like Snyder, Spike & Dru, Joyce, Faith, Trick/Lindsey, Lilah, Kate were all on a different planet compared to Kennedy, Wood, Trio, Rack, Eve, Beast etc.

Then theres the Big Bads arcs, with enemies like Angelus, Faith/Mayor, Initiative, and Darla from Ats, it was much more interesting and involving, these ones just seemed to have more time and thought put into them, compared to Blackthorn(weak weak weak) The First (unoriginal) and Jasmine(smacks of desperation)

This point here, ive went on alot about lately, and im about to do so again. But, i think its a valid point and a big part of the TV series's downfall, so here goes. Its the superhero, far out, comic book style they done in the last few seasons of each show. Illyria, Dark Willow, Saijahn, The Trio, Gwen, Blackthorn, the Beast, y'know, the ones you cant connect with. That may not seem alot, but these were main or supporting roles, that actually took up alot of screen time, time that would have been much better spent focusing on revitalizing the proper main characters lives, and it would have had a more realistic, personal feel to it.

I mean, of the possible spinoffs proposed over the last 3 years, the front runner has emerged as Ripper (which is still possible) and coincidentally is the one that would most likely use the old formula of realism, subtlety and story depth rather than the new formula of far fetched, special effects and choosing quantity over quality.

So the thing is, really, putting myself in the shoes of a network executive and a massive Buffy fan, not only can i understand why it got cancelled, but i actually think it was for the best(only coz this cult classic will never die):santa2:

If they do think about getting a new spinoff made, they should obviously use the old formula and go back to basics because if they dont, any future show would probably fast go the same way Buffy and Angel ended up going.

To sum up, yes, i would have cancelled both shows, but only to revive them in some form or another. But for those specific show, sorry, but their time had come.

What do you think, was the cancellation deserved, or was it just some idiot that didnt have a clue about life that got it wrong?
::bbat::

 

[Bluebird]

Or was it just some idiot that didnt have a clue about life that got it wrong?
::bbat::

I agree with you here:tongue:

 

[Primal Slayer]

well Buffy wasnt cancelled so wouldnt have to worry about doing that.

As far as Angel, no I wouldnt have cancelled the show. It was the only show on WB that air thats ratings improved. Plus it was still doing good story telling with a very low budget. Angel could have gone atleast two more seasons.

Buffy could have done one more but they decieded to end it in a good place. I think after 7/8 seasons majority of shows should be coming to an end.

 

[Lyri]

Like Primal Slayer said, BTVS wasn't cancelled, so we don't need to think about that.

As for Angel, no, I wouldn't have cancelled it, but you're asking the wrong people here. We're the fans, so of course we're gonna say we'd have kept it on the air.

That being said, I still don't understand why they DID cancel it. It was doing well in the ratings, they were hitting some of their best episodes and storylines, and the Illyria-arc was setting up nicely for next season.

It was a sucky birthday present. (yeah, I found out on my birrthday, lol)

 

[JollyApe]

I'm not sure about the AtS cancellation, because to me that never was and never will reach the same amount of cult status as BtVS did. Therefore it doesn't need a pow ending and can be allowed to drag on for a bit. Season 4 of Angel was a bit shifty, but during season 5 it felt as if there easily could have continued on for a few more seasons from this new W&H perspective. So to be honest I think I might have kept that show going. Too much profit to be made not to.

BtVS on the other hand it was the right thing to stop where they did. Part of me almost wish they would have stopped when they were cancelled the first time. Would have made for one spectacular ending and saving us some questionable storylines in season 6 & 7. So if it had been me, I'd stopped BtVS at the end of season 5 and possibly developed the verse by exploring yet another spinn-off (if I had Whedon onboard).

 

[white avenger]

Both shows probably ended at just about the perfect point. Both teams were basically at the top of their game, and their tales, at least in the format that it was at that point presented, had gone about as far as it could plausibly go. The Big Bads had gotten bigger and badder with each passing season until very much more would have gotten absurd. Sunnydale had had destruction averted as many times as possible, and it was time to change locations, a step which would almost certainly have required more operating Budget than Joss could have procured, which would have meant a tremendous amount of studio work and almost no outdoor shots.

Angel was a different story, of course, because it was a studio decision, a true cancellation, when the show still had viable options for at least a few more seasons.

Both principal stars, however, were, I think, getting just a bit weary of the roles, and wanted to prove to the audience that they could do more than fight demons and avert worldwide chaos. Certainly, either actor could have been replaced, but since the shows' titles were "Buffy The vampire Slayer," and "Angel," that would have been somewhat hard for the fans to swallow, no matter how loyal they were.

Both shows left on an up note, both crews were at the top of their game, and that's how our memories of them will remain. Too many tv series drag on long after their hey day, and the result isn't really good for either the cast or the viewers. Both shows ended the way that we wanted their heroes to go out: one smiling enigmatically, leaving literally a hundred different interpretations, and the other went out swinging, still fighting the good fight.

Sure, they came back in comic book form, but the different forum opens up new worlds of possibilities for both shows, possibilities that won't depend on actors growing too old to play their parts, or becoming dissatisfied with their roles and turning in less than their best performances. Like Chuck Norris said when he chose to end "Walker, texas Ranger" af a very successful point, "It's better to go out a winner and have people remember you that way than wait until you start losing."

Buffy and Angel went out champions, and we remember them that way.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Like Primal Slayer said, BTVS wasn't cancelled, so we don't need to think about that.

As for Angel, no, I wouldn't have cancelled it, but you're asking the wrong people here. We're the fans, so of course we're gonna say we'd have kept it on the air.

That being said, I still don't understand why they DID cancel it. It was doing well in the ratings, they were hitting some of their best episodes and storylines, and the Illyria-arc was setting up nicely for next season.

It was a sucky birthday present. (yeah, I found out on my birrthday, lol)

I think TheWB always looked at Angel as Buffys left-over and once Buffy was gone there really was no reason to keep Angel on their network. But I dont get why they made so many demands to Joss just to cancel the show after he went with it. They cut the budget, moved the show like 5 times in two years, they wanted someone from Buffy to come over to Angel, they got Spike (and ofcourse ruining the surprise by promoting him around on posters). I just think they didnt like Joss or the show that much by the time Buffy jumped networks.

But atleast UPN loved Buffy and wanted them to go on for 2more years.

 

[T.I.P]

Buffy wasnt cancelled then? so what happened? It does seem to be viewed as the weakest season where it got pointless.
If people are losing intrest in a show and no one comes in to pick it up, it may as well have been cancelled.
And there can be lots of reasons why it may have been cancelled, but, if for example, imagine Buffy s7 was as good as s2 or s3, it probably wouldnt have got cancelled. I mean, it got to the point, in s7, that Dawn, Xander, Willow, Giles were just standing around, not really doing much.
If they focused more on the main characters rather than, Kennedy and the Potentials, and the First, it wouldve been much more interesting, may have shown the network that things are getting better instead of worse, and they might have got the money they thought they deserved.
Although, i imagine Joss just being quite stubborn.
And Angel, in season 5, they relyed too much on Spike, and focused on the wrong stuff.
Look at the facts. Fred gets dull so they turn her into a god. Gunn gets dull, so they *magically* give him law skills(man, talk about taking the easy option) and this is just one small example of where the show was headed.
Id say, if they, like Btvs if they focused on what really mattered then it could easily have done a couple more years.
Like, instead of Blackthorn/Running W&H theycould have made Gunn a Vamp(at least it wouldve been original and revived his character)
Or instead of the Eve and Lindsey Story, they coulve tried to make the Angel Nina relathionship more appealing.
All the time wasted on Knox should have went on Lorne or Wes.
But no, the writers opted for the quick fix, shallow characters, out of touch arcs, and, well, the shows, pretty much because of the Btvs/Ats staff, got what was a long time coming to them.

 

[Lou]

I can see Buffy going. I think it had played out as much as they could.
Angel, I think since Season 5 was SO good, it would have been nice to see it go another season. I'd have liked Cordy to have time to come back and I didn't like how they killed of Lindsey.
I'd have liked to have seen them do a BIT more in WR&H and not have it end the way it did. Epsecially with Spike and Illyria there, I think there was a lot to work with end the end.

So, I'm kind of torn.

 

[sk]

As I understand it Joss and SMG agreed very early that s7 would be the last season for whatever reasons.
But they could have continued if they had wanted to.

And because that they knew it was gonna be the last season the story arc was that it was.

Now, I think s7 was great. And not the weakest season at all.
Especially not if you consider the season arc.

And I also think that they could have continued for another year or so. If the cast and crew was all for it of course.
They would have needed a totally different story and another ending of season 7 for it to work though...

/SK

 

[JCC]

Meh. I wouldn't have cancelled Angel, because it's my favourite show.

 

[LizzieRainbow]

As much as i love buffy im glad that it ended at season eight, unlike most shows it ended while it was still popular, whereas many shows end because the writers ahve clearly ran out of ideas and the fans are dissappearing. This ws not the case for buffy, buffy was still realli popular when it ended so wberyone will remeber it for how good it was and will not talk about how it all went downhill and should have ended ages ago

=D

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Buffy wasnt cancelled then? so what happened?

No, it wasn't cancelled. Both Joss and SMG were tired and have stated frankly that they were overworked and burned out. So: the producer and the star decided to end the show. That's not the same as being cancelled, regardless of how many people want it to be.

It does seem to be viewed as the weakest season where it got pointless.

Especially by people who are desperate to validate their pathological "Season X" dislike. There is no such universal consensus by the fans about much of anything.

If people are losing intrest in a show and no one comes in to pick it up, it may as well have been cancelled.

Yeah, well, that didn't happen, either, so it's just more fantasizing.

 

[Lou]

Originally Posted by ghostface
It does seem to be viewed as the weakest season where it got pointless.

Especially by people who are desperate to validate their pathological "Season X" dislike. There is no such universal consensus by the fans about much of anything.

I think Season 7 was weaker than the others. I don't think it got pointless, but I do think there was so much crammed in that it was harder to keep up with than the other seasons.
Along with all the other potentials running about willy nilly, we had Dawn back in school with weird flashbacks to when Buffy was in school, Buffy's new job, the First parading around as most of the cast at some point, Willow, Andrew, Spike, Robin and Giles all kind of can't tell if they're good/bad/half crazy at some point or another.
Faith comes bouncing back right in the middle of all Hellmouth breaking loose....I think it really needed almost double the episodes that it had to really iron out the kinks in all this going on if we were supposed to keep up.
Instead, I find myself caring less when the potentials die as I did about random vampires getting staked.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Buffy wasnt cancelled then? so what happened? It does seem to be viewed as the weakest season where it got pointless.
If people are losing intrest in a show and no one comes in to pick it up, it may as well have been cancelled.

As mentioned, Buffy was far from cancelled. Joss and SMG deiceded to end it. UPN wanted Buffy to continue up till S9, since it was one of their strongest shows and got them much needed media attention.

But I dont think S7 was the weakest season, as with other seasons it had its highs and lows but certainly not enough lows for me to deam it the weakest. Buffy was finally getting out of her emo phase from S6, Xander, Anya, and Dawn were at great charecter moments imo.

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

I think Season 7 was weaker than the others......Instead, I find myself caring less when the potentials die as I did about random vampires getting staked.

And as many people as want can come running in to say that, but the bottom line is: there still is no such universal consensus. One can, without even breaking a sweat, find posters who feel that the later seasons were stronger. Or that Season Six was weaker and Season Seven was stronger. Or the reverse. Or that Season Four was the weakest, or Season Five... well, you get the point. Personally, I found every season had its ups and downs, but all of them wind up on the plus side, and not a bad one in the bunch.

And, of course, there's no universal consensus about that, either.

 

[chiigusa]

I think Season 7 ended at a good time. Sure, I would have loved to see it continue on forever and ever, but I have to realistic.

As for Angel, it had a lot of unused potential, which was clear in what Joss had already planned for future seasons. So, I would definitely not have canceled it because Season 5, although I thoroughly enjoyed it, felt more rushed and crammed than Season 7 of Buffy as you're claiming felt. Because that's exactly what Joss did. He crammed all the ideas he could into his final hoo-rah of his shows.

And arguably, I loved Season 7. I just rewatched it over the course of last week and was just as excited watching it now as I did when it first aired. Then again, that's how I am with pretty much every episode, haha.

Of course, I have a hard time disliking any part of my most favorite show. But, that's just me.

 

[Tranquillity]

I'm big with the season seven love - I have such affection for that season, but that is an entirely personal response and just my opinion. But i do think the tv series ended at the right time for those involved - that being said if they'd wanted to continue producing, i certainly would have kept watching. I don't think the series ended because there was a lack of stories to tell, otherwise we wouldn't be getting the comics which joss developed because there was still plenty of life left in the Buffyverse.

As for Angel, i still think we were robbed! Season five was amazing. It didn't deserve to get cancelled and It would have been nice for Angel to have reached a matching seven seasons like Buffy.

 

[eponinethen]

Is anyone THAT suprised it happened?

Not at all... I happen to be one of those who doesn't hate season 7, I actually think it's got its qualities, but I do also agree that it had lost some of whatever it was that we fell in love with with BtVS is the first place. I like the ending of BtVS, and wouldn't have prefered it to end with The Gift (hell, OMWF alone makes season 6 and 7 worth it). But I definitely wouldn't have made an 8th TV show season of BtVS, and I'm "glad" it ended when it did. Like I've said before, I prefer season 8 as a comic.

AtS though, like Ape said, it doesn't have the cult status that BtVS does, and it doesn't have the same place in my heart. I love the show, don't get me wrong, but if AtS ended with a bad season, it wouldn't have hurt the way it would with BtVS. I think AtS could have deserved another season, then again, I think the last ep of the show is perfect, and I wouldn't have had it any other way...

So yes. I would have cancelled the shows.

 

[VisionGuy]

BtVS ended just fine in my opinion. But Angel could have gone on for one or two more seasons. There's much more that could have been done.