Would you kill your father for the person you love?

Keanoite said:
I see your point but I don't see it as making decisions for people, I see it as protecting people. Maybe this is because I supposedly have an Angel complex (my frined informed me of this recently) but if I could save someone I love from one iota of pain I would. It's not because I think I know best, its cuz I can't bear for them to be hurt. Gunn and Angel work off the same thing. I'm not saying it's right but I don't think they deserve to be flamed for it.
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I think the impulse is good. Where the flaming comes in is in their lack of ability to consider the other person and check that impulse. Sure, Gunn was protecting Fred, but he ended up hurting her more -- because she didn't want to be protected and coddled. She wanted to take action. With Wes, Fred wanted to be protected. That, to me, is the difference. You can't just go around saying "Me hero; you victim." Sometimes, people need to be allowed to make their own decisions and their own mistakes. They need to stand on their own two feet in order to grow as individuals. Gunn took away Fred's chance to do that. He wanted to keep her pristine and perfect. Wes didn't take away anything. He just wanted her alive.

Aside: I can't believe I just said that! I actually prefer Fred with Gunn! They were cuteness itself.
 
palabravampiress said:
I think the impulse is good. Where the flaming comes in is in their lack of ability to consider the other person and check that impulse. Sure, Gunn was protecting Fred, but he ended up hurting her more -- because she didn't want to be protected and coddled. She wanted to take action. With Wes, Fred wanted to be protected. That, to me, is the difference. You can't just go around saying "Me hero; you victim." Sometimes, people need to be allowed to make their own decisions and their own mistakes. They need to stand on their own two feet in order to grow as individuals. Gunn took away Fred's chance to do that. He wanted to keep her pristine and perfect. Wes didn't take away anything. He just wanted her alive.

Aside: I can't believe I just said that! I actually prefer Fred with Gunn! They were cuteness itself.
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I don't agree that Gunn wanted her pristine and perfect, he wanted her to be Fred, he didn't want her to lose herself. The professor had already taken so much from her, Gunn didn't want him to get any more.

Aside II: I prefer Gunn and Fred too. There were just so sweet! remember Waiting in the wings!! aww!!!
 
Wesley was a very unstable man. Nuff said.

No I wouldn't kill for my love. I wouldn't kill for anyone. I would give up my own life for my love and all those I love in an instant, but I would never take a life for them. Not even if it meant they would keep theirs.
 
Re: Fred and Gunn, the problem is that Gunn failed in protecting her from the guilt. In fact Fred felt worse because Gunn took on that guilt for her because of what she was going to do which is why she shares responsibility for it. She feels just as guilty as he does.

As for Wes? I can't imagine killing my father but he'd never put me in that position.
Interestingly Wes was willing to die for Angel but willing to kill for Fred. It was a dark moment in which Wes accepted no comfort. He shot his father almost instintually when he grabbed Fred. It doesn't matter that it wasn't his father because he believe it was when he shot him. As far as intention is concerned he might as well have done.

Going back to the original comparison. Like it was said, Fred was innocent in all this. Fred knew how Wes felt about her but perhaps this was an obstacle which is why they got together a lot later. It was something they both had to get over.

Also let us not forget it was Gunn who actually ended things with Fred ultimately, and he even stopped her attempt of them getting back together, part of it was the problems they had as a result of her old professor but part of it was down to Wesley.
 
I agree about Wesley, he shot to kill, as far as he knew that was his father.

On Fred and Gunn I'm still not convinced, I think it was more anger than guilt that caused her to push him away. She had seen people she loved do terrible things and never pulled away from them. But all those times it was never about her, with Gunn it was and she was seriouly pissed.
 
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