Xander a hypocrite?

[The Unspoken]

Even if we assume Anya and Angel are comparable, Xander expressed his dislike of Angel in seasons 1-3 and started dating Anya in season 4. Going from the adage 'practice what you preach', hypocrisy occurs when what one practices is contradictory to what one preaches, meaning it would only be hypocrisy if Xander was dating Anya WHILE expressing his dslike of Angel in seasons 1-3.

The other question is whether or not Anya and chipped Spike are comparable. I don't see them as comparable, so I don't see that as hypocrisy either.

Discuss. 🙂

 

[msfantastico87]

Yes...Xander. Mr. Hypocritical.

I think he is hypocritical even after s1-3. When Buffy was with Spike, he never approved of it either and he was with Anya at the moment. So wouldn't that be the same thing?

I really hated that he did that. Sure, I kinda shipped Xanya hardcore (before I started reading the comics of course) but yeah, he was a hypocrite about it.

 

[zobothehobo]

Xander is the definition of hypocrite.

 

[The Unspoken]

Xander is the definition of hypocrite.

And yet he doesn't fit in the definition of hypocrite. 😛

Yes...Xander. Mr. Hypocritical.

I think he is hypocritical even after s1-3. When Buffy was with Spike, he never approved of it either and he was with Anya at the moment. So wouldn't that be the same thing?

I really hated that he did that. Sure, I kinda shipped Xanya hardcore (before I started reading the comics of course) but yeah, he was a hypocrite about it.

But wasn't the reason that Buffy struggled so much with her season 6 relationship with Spike his lack of a soul? Wouldn't that make Buffy a hypocrite too?

 

[Icarium]

Pretty much every major character in the show is massively hypocritical in regards to Anya. She is a mass murderer and this is treated like a joke. By everyone. Not just Xander, mind you.

 

[msfantastico87]

But wasn't the reason that Buffy struggled so much with her season 6 relationship with Spike his lack of a soul? Wouldn't that make Buffy a hypocrite too?

hmmm I never really thought about it that way. For me, she dated a vampire before <Angel> and she was with Spike afterwards. Xander's whole deal was that she was dating a monster, instead of him *at first anyways*, whether Angel had a soul or not, I think Xander was just upset with the fact he was a monster, so I don't think the whole having a soul thing applies.

Get what I mean?

Same thing goes for Xander dating Anya. She was a vengeance demon. She had her powers taken away and what not, but the idea of her being a demon is still there. So it kind of makes it hypocritical.

Ah i'm not sure if I am making any sense lol

 

[WakingNightmare]

Xander's only human isn't he? It's easier for him to ignore the similarities of Spike and Anya's situation because he likes Anya. That fact that he does this doesn't make him right, it just makes him like any other person. Does this make him a hypocrite? Yes, it does but I can't hold that against him because I can be hypocritical myself. It's Xander's one huge saving grace. He's a human being that you can hold to human standards, just like everyone that watches this show.

(With the execption of Joann cause she's some kind of Goblin Slayer.)

 

[Marisa]

Xander was a hypocrite but he wasn't the only one.
I do think it was weird for him to always bash Angel and then date someone like Anya. He even bashed Spike as well yet when Anya went on a killing spree with those college boys in season 7 he wanted to give her forgiveness. I guess maybe at least after all that he could understand where Buffy was coming from all those years.

 

[Abby27]

I always thought it was weird that Xander was so quick to throw Angel under the bus, but then started dating Anya. I mean, at least Angelus and Angel are defined as two separate entities. Angel himself didn't do too any of the horrible things Angelus did. Anya on the other hand, seemed to have a soul while being a vengeance demon (I don't think the soul thing is really brought up with regards to her, is it?) and then lost her powers, and tried to immigrate into the human world again. I love Anya, don't get me wrong, but she did seem to do a lot of damage and hurt a lot of people, and it wasn't a soulless demon doing it, it was her. I never got why Xander thought that was ok, but not Angel. Her doings were a but more trivialized since it was "getting back dudes for being horrible boyfriends" but let's be honest, she might have ever killed people, at least she really hurt them.

 

[The Unspoken]

I always thought it was weird that Xander was so quick to throw Angel under the bus, but then started dating Anya. I mean, at least Angelus and Angel are defined as two separate entities. Angel himself didn't do too any of the horrible things Angelus did. Anya on the other hand, seemed to have a soul while being a vengeance demon (I don't think the soul thing is really brought up with regards to her, is it?) and then lost her powers, and tried to immigrate into the human world again. I love Anya, don't get me wrong, but she did seem to do a lot of damage and hurt a lot of people, and it wasn't a soulless demon doing it, it was her. I never got why Xander thought that was ok, but not Angel. Her doings were a but more trivialized since it was "getting back dudes for being horrible boyfriends" but let's be honest, she might have ever killed people, at least she really hurt them.

Well, there's some dialogue from the Prom:

When I lost my powers, I got stuck in this persona, and now I have all these "feelings." I don't understand it. I don't like it.

Make of that what you will.

I'm not condoning Xander's behavior regarding Angel in seasons 1-3. But it's not hypocrisy either - it can't be, because what happens later isn't a factor in his judgment then.

 

[Icarium]

When I lost my powers, I got stuck in this persona, and now I have all these "feelings." I don't understand it. I don't like it.

Of course, this is completely contradicted by the behaviour of Anynka 2.0. Kind of hard to blame the characters for their attitude towards Anya when the writers couldn't make up their minds about her either. She was a great comic relief but a terribly written character, IMO.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Funny, I was about to post a very similar thread, with a different contention.
My argument is that Xander is very hypocritical when it comes to his disapproval of Spike.

It's highlighted for me, most profoundly in the episode "Entropy." He says something about being disgusted by Anya because she let that "soulless thing" touch her. But let's compare chipped Spike and newly human Anya. I think they are quite similar and if anything, Anya is worse, (though I adore her as well.)

Why? Anya chose, while human, to become a demon and to slaughter and torture countless men. Spike, while human, did not chose to become an evil, soulless killer. Then, Anya chose to become a killer once again, in season 7. At the same time, Spike had just come back from seeking out his Soul.

So, Xander is totally fine with the idea of dating and sleeping with a woman who "maimed and mangled" for over 1000 years and then decided to do so again in recent history. But he disapproves of a man who unintentionally became a killer and who hasn't been able to hurt anyone/ hasn't wanted to hurt anyone for quite some time.

To sum up, when considering Xander's hypocricy, I think it is most poignant when it relates to Anya/Spike. They both had their evil powers stripped away from them; Spike with a chip, Anya with a spell gone unexpectedly, (The Wish). Neither one of them chose to be "give up" their evil tendencies, but there they were. Both of them, for all intents and purposes, newly human. Xander sleeps with one but judges Buffy harshly for sleeping with the other. To quote Xander, "How. What? How." 🙂

(Disclaimer: I am a total Xanya fan.) 🙂

 

[The Unspoken]

Funny, I was about to post a very similar thread, with a different contention.
My argument is that Xander is very hypocritical when it comes to his disapproval of Spike.

It's highlighted for me, most profoundly in the episode "Entropy." He says something about being disgusted by Anya because she let that "soulless thing" touch her. But let's compare chipped Spike and newly human Anya. I think they are quite similar and if anything, Anya is worse, (though I adore her as well.)

Why? Anya chose, while human, to become a demon and to slaughter and torture countless men. Spike, while human, did not chose to become an evil, soulless killer. Then, Anya chose to become a killer once again, in season 7. At the same time, Spike had just come back from seeking out his Soul.

So, Xander is totally fine with the idea of dating and sleeping with a woman who "maimed and mangled" for over 1000 years and then decided, unprovoked, to do so again in recent history. But he disapproves of a man who unintentionally became a killer and who hasn't been able to hurt anyone/ hasn't wanted to hurt anyone for quite some time.

To sum up, when considering Xander's hypocricy, I think it is most poignant when it relates to Anya/Spike. They both had their evil powers stripped away from them; Spike with a chip, Anya with a spell gone unexpectedly, (The Wish). Neither one of them chose to be "give up" their evil tendencies, but there they were. Both of them, for all intents and purposes, newly human. Xander sleeps with one but judges Buffy harshly for sleeping with the other. To quote Xander, "How. What? How." 🙂

(Disclaimer: I am a total Xanya fan.) 🙂

But in 'Entropy', Xander doesn't know that Anya turned back into a vengeance demon.
(Also, see the dialogue from 'The Prom' above.) Up until 'Entropy', Anya's experience as a human is presented as something she has to adjust to, meaning there is a difference from Anyanka.

And in season 7, Xander doesn't condemn Buffy for having a (romantic) relationship with Spike (as far as I know).

 

[Icarium]

To sum up, when considering Xander's hypocricy, I think it is most poignant when it relates to Anya/Spike. They both had their evil powers stripped away from them; Spike with a chip, Anya with a spell gone unexpectedly, (The Wish). Neither one of them chose to be "give up" their evil tendencies, but there they were.

Anya could have continued killing, if she wanted to - she can cast spells or buy a gun or whatever, unlike Spike who very much wanted to kill but couldn't. Not that this makes the Scoobies' acceptance of a mass murderer any less moronic, mind you.

 

[brinkster130]

I absolutely think Xander is a hypocrite.

I pulled this definition of hypocrite from Webster:


1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

I think Xander totally fits the definition.

I agree with what msfantastico87 said above. Xander had a problem with Buffy dating Spike because a monster while he himself was dating an ex-demon.

Xander also mentioned several times in season 1-3 that Angel becoming evil again was a possibility and used that as a reason why Buffy shouldn't be involved with him. Yet Xander never seriously expressed concern about Anya becoming a demon again. Even after Anya did become a demon again and kill people Xander was able to forgive her whereas he never really forgave Angel.

 

[The Unspoken]

I absolutely think Xander is a hypocrite.

I pulled this definition of hypocrite from Webster:


1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

I think Xander totally fits the definition.

I agree with what msfantastico87 said above. Xander had a problem with Buffy dating Spike because a monster while he himself was dating an ex-demon.

Xander also mentioned several times in season 1-3 that Angel becoming evil again was a possibility and used that as a reason why Buffy shouldn't be involved with him. Yet Xander never seriously expressed concern about Anya becoming a demon again. Even after Anya did become a demon again and kill people Xander was able to forgive her whereas he never really forgave Angel.

But if the two things, disapproving of Angel and dating Anya, don't happen within the same time frame, in this case seasons 1-3 or seasons 4+, there's no contradiction.

Puts on a false appearance? He didn't conceal the fact that he was dating Anya in seasons 1-3, because he wasn't dating Anya then.

Why should Xander forgive Angel? He only has to tolerate him, he doesn't have to like him.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

But in 'Entropy', Xander doesn't know that Anya turned
back into a vengeance demon.
(Also, see the dialogue from 'The Prom' above.) Up until 'Entropy', Anya's experience as a human is presented as something she has to adjust to, meaning there is a difference from Anyanka.



And in season 7, Xander doesn't condemn Buffy for having a (romantic) relationship with Spike (as far as I know).

Fair enough, Xander didn't know that she'd turned back. But regardless, I still argue that she and Spike are comparable characters for the reasons I stated. (FYI, Spike's experience as chipped vampire is something he has to adjust to also, so not quite seeing the difference). Sure, their circumstances are not carbon copies of each other. But they are comparable, and yet held to different standards by Xander.

Sure, he doesn't say anything. They aren't intimate in this season, so the opportunity doesn't present itself. But I will grant you that perhaps the fact that he doesn't say much of anything negative about Spike, post soul-getting, might be an indication that he's grown.

 

[brinkster130]

But if the two things, disapproving of Angel and dating Anya, don't happen within the same time frame, in this case seasons 1-3 or seasons 4+, there's no contradiction.

Why should Xander forgive Angel? He only has to tolerate him, he doesn't have to like him.

I don't believe that have to happen at the same time for him to be a hypocrite.

Xander engaged in the same behavior he condemned. To me that makes him a hypocrite.

 

[The Unspoken]

I don't believe that have to happen at the same time for him to be a hypocrite.

Xander engaged in the same behavior he condemned. To me that makes him a hypocrite.

Then Faith is a hypocrite too because she went to prison and stopped murdering people, something she condemned before.

It happening at the same time is exactly what's required for it to be hypocrisy, and why it's so looked down upon.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Yes. Sometimes he was. Sometimes he knew to be such a sweetheart, loving friend, big support, the heart of the group.. but when he decided something is wrong for him and his friends, he became selfish, no matter how others feel..