Xander - a murderer too!!!

you could make a case for slayers not being entirely human due to having supernatural powers.and weren't the knights from another dimension so not entirely human.also wasn't the knights situation a bit of a kill or be killed scenario.
 
Yeah the "kill or be killed" scenario provided a self-defence or survival 'excuse'.
I, however, do belive that slayers are human. Willow has magical powers - does that make her not a human?! I think that even though the knights and slayers have special gifts, it still makes them human. But i suppose you could provide a reasonable argument to the contrary. It brings in the whole question of how you define things - like what exactly makes a "human" compared to something, well, not. Or soemthing supernatural, or demons - could an evil person not be described as demonic?!
 
Hmm, now heres the thing I don't get, Buffy was talking about how wrong it was to kill humans, yet she had no remorse over telling her friends she would kill them if they tried to harm Dawn (The Gift) -- This is cupled with the fact she killed (directly and indirectly) 10 Knights (figure stated by the second in command) in the RV, means that Buffy is any way more innocent than Willow, after, she expressed that she would kill to protect her sister, so were the knights deaths intentional (rather than 'casualities of war')? And if so, why should she get off with nothing? She says a Slayer doesn't have the right to judge, but does she really mean that she is beyond that and can choose?

Ok I'm just ranting, but there is a point in there somewhere.
 
I don't know what's the whole taboo on killing humans, some demons have souls too (right?) I mean that friend of Spike, with the pig's nose, he is "better" than people like Warren.
 
Good work Spike got a very good debate going, I think everyones put great points on this, i especially like alley cats at the end. But i dont believe any of them should be punished for what they've done. Oh and its clem not pig nose demon 🙂>

BIGGER PARTS FOR CLEM!!
 
Originally posted by catdog
Good work Spike got a very good debate going, I think everyones put great points on this, i especially like alley cats at the end. But i dont believe any of them should be punished for what they've done. Oh and its clem not pig nose demon 🙂>

BIGGER PARTS FOR CLEM!!
Click to expand...

I ::heart:: and adore Clem! Lol.
Its interesting coz some demons are better than some people!
I got you, Aodhà¡n! Lol. I think each case is different. The Slayer does not judge - she does what she needs to do to protect the world and herself. By threatening the others over Dawn, shes just protecting her as a loved one.

😀
 
Sorry, ... my humble apologizes to Clem! I'd love to see more of him!
 
I don't think Xander can technically be described as a murderer, but I do find it disturbing that he appeared to show no remorse for his actions and that the rest of the Scoobies - including Giles, never took him to task for it at all.

It's also very disturbing to think about the way he pretended not to know what was going on during the episode - his conversation with Giles in the street immediately after his and Anya's song for instance. He must have known then that it was his doing, as, when he owns up at the end, he says that he knew there would be songs and dancing. The lies seemed to come too easily and I found this quite creepy.

Something else to think about is that Xanders actions were selfishly motivated - he did it to make sure he and Anya 'turned out alright'. He was the cause of at least one death, and mortal danger for people he professes to care for deeply just to get what he wanted.

It's not the first time either - in Season 2 - Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered, he gets Amy to help him with a spell in order to get back at Cordelia which puts all of his friends in danger - similar scenario.

Whilst he's not a murderer, his actions in both these cases are definitely more than a case of 'accident' or 'carelessness'. I would say that someone who spends that much time around the forces of darkness has absolutely no excuse not to understand the relationship between actions and consequences.

The worst thing about it for me was that he watched Buffy beginning to burn and STILL didn't say anything - was he prepared to let his friend die knowing that he had information which, for all he knew, may have helped them stop it?

Given Xanders behaviour towards Spike all through Seasons 5 & 6 and especially after Seeing Red, I think it's a great piece of irony that it was Spike who stopped Buffy from combusting.

It could possibly be argued that Spike saved Buffy from Xander.
::evil:: LOL ::evil::

Xander has always been a favourite of mine but in Season 6 he seemed to be becoming more and more like the jerks who used to pick on him in highschool - a classic case of the abused becoming an abuser perhaps.

I hope they bring back funny, generous, big-hearted Xander for S7, cos I miss him. *whine*
 
Great points, Gin.
I think he didnt say anything will buffy was starting to burn purely coz he couldnt really control his speech coz of the spell.
I do find it disturbing how he was talking it over with anya and giles and still acted completely innocent! Lol.
I think the Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered spell was different though - a simple spell for love gone completely awry, not summoning a demon from hell!!! Lol.

😉
 
Quoted from Xander: "I didn't know any of this was giong to happen,I thought there was just going to be songs and dances,I thought it would make everything turn out alright for us after everything thats happened". So i don't think it would be right to call Xander a Murderer.
 
Though Xander is responsible for the killing. His intentions where good and he never oversaw that his deeds would lead to this, and thus he can NOT be called a killer!
 
Well does that matter? ... Is it about the actual result or the intentions in this case? ... His "Killer"-status depends on this question!
 
Not at all - willow in her right mind would not have intentionally killed someone, and she will regret it, but fact is - shes a killer. Full stop.
 
Hmm, difficult, but Willow lost her mind, she let herself lose her mind, so from that point it was her own fault, but was this also with Xander?
 
No, xander did not lose his mind, just his judgement. He didnt think about what he was doing, he was a bit stupid. I think that while this provided, IMO, the best episode ever, it was kinda out of character for xander. As in, the story did not suit the perfectly developed 'real' characters, one of the major pluses about buffy in comparison to other shows. I think that after 6 'years' (ie seasons) of being a scoobie and just generally fighting evil that he would not raise any demon, even if he looked like 'fun'! Lol.
 
No it's in character, the old Xander could sure have done that, so this now shows, that he's not changed totally, he's still Xander, he does stupid things and he doesn't think too much at what he does and what the consequences may be! ... It shows that character develop, but it's a slow process and sometimes you fall back to your old ways.
 
Xander was goofy and silly but he was never so stupid as to raise a demon - he had seen so many people killed because of them!!!
 
Xander was goofy and silly, we agree on that, but he could still have raisen a demon. Though he had also seen a lot of people suffer because of spell, he cast an "innocent" one in 2.16 "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered".
 
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