Xander = awful

[PrincessBuffy16]

No, him living in his parents basement forever, failing to go to college(only for the shows purpose, no hate on anyone who didnt actually go to college), being an idiot(lest we forget"4x5 is 30"), still being in love with Buffy throughout the series although she never expressed any interest in him, and the fact that everyone else he went to high school with noticed he was a loser makes him a loser. I never said "oh he's a loser because i hate him" . Fail.

Also i'm fairly certain he himself knows he's a loser.

He wasn't in love with Buffy throught the whole series, don't you know how to recognise true and strong friendship? And in the friendship area Buffy expressed so much interest in him, he was her strenght.

 

[sosa lola]

I think it just comes down to who you identify with and who you connect to. I think people are always more understanding of their favorite characters, and they're more willing to think deeply on the actions and feelings of the characters they love (sometimes deeper than the writers!). But if you don't feel the pull of a certain character, you aren't really interested in the why's and how's of it.

I can safely say that while I only identify with Xander and Buffy, I look at the background of all the characters before I start a discussion. I mean, I never cared about Faith's character, but I understand why she tried to kill Xander. I think discussing the show is more fun when I look at characters fairly and not let my emotions cloud my judgement. As a Xander fan, I could have hated Spike and Angel because Xander hated them, but I don't. I love Spike, and I'm okay with Angel. I'm starting to lose interest in Willow, but I can still understand why she became the awful person she was in S6.

 

[BuffyElevated]

No, him living in his parents basement forever, failing to go to college(only for the shows purpose, no hate on anyone who didnt actually go to college), being an idiot(lest we forget"4x5 is 30"), still being in love with Buffy throughout the series although she never expressed any interest in him, and the fact that everyone else he went to high school with noticed he was a loser makes him a loser. I never said "oh he's a loser because i hate him" . Fail.

Also i'm fairly certain he himself knows he's a loser.

I got news for you, dude. Just because someone doesn't go to college doesn't make them a loser. There are a lot of people out there in very important, high-paying jobs who don't have degrees and earned what they have through hard work and experience, just like Xander did on the show. Xander didn't go 'cause he didn't so so well on the SATs, and I'm fairly certain that his parents couldn't afford for him to go. But like someone else pointed out, Xander always had jobs. They might not have been the best or highest paying, which is why he lived in his parents' basement until he got money saved up to move into the apartment he moved into right after Season 5 started. But he did move out, so it's not like he always lived with his parents. And he ended up becoming a great carpenter (even if his measurements were sometimes a little off), which was very useful in the end of the show when Buffy's house was constantly needing new windows/doors/whatever.
As far as the girls in Sunnydale High were concerned, who's to say none of them would have dated Xander? The only other girls we ever saw him have any interaction with (save for "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" in S2) were the Cordettes, who hated him because he wasn't popular like them. And they hated everyone who wasn't popular like them and called them all losers. And there were girls in the series who expressed interest in Xander who weren't losers: Kendra in S2, Anya, Nancy in S7.
Xander may have been socially awkward a lot of the time, but he is not a loser.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Eh. as far as him wanting to kill angel in becoming part 1. I'll agree he puts it in the worst possible fashion but eh..he has a point. He killed jenny. And well that destroyed giles,and the gang in alot of ways,Why should he bend over backwards so she could have her boyfriend back. Ok,now as we know considering angels in the apocalypse,and hes been apointed humanitys champion but..back then,no one,least of all angel knew that. Did angel himself kill jenny,No. Angelus did. But honestly,if someone killed someone I loved I wouldnt neccessarly want to exchange bff rings and do the snoopy dance. It might be immature,But its human. and in becoming part 2,in my personal belief,angelus would of done it. hes the scourge. hes honestly the only character i legitimately thought could beat buffy. and in a way mentally he did. Angelus is the sort of evil you dont kill,the type you cage up.
Anyway Away from my fanboyish preoccupiation with angelus,back to the point,Buffy needed to be ready to kill him. The worlds in balance. So I think thats why xander did what he did,not out of an urge to get revenge for jenny,although partially thats the reason but more out of an urge to give buffy the strength to do what she might have to do.
Dont get me wrong,xander has his moments of selfishness. And there are moments where I want to hit him(I still hate him breaking up with anya and cheating on cordelia). And of course,the episode where he puts a spell on everywoman in sunnydale accidently. But I think xanders got alot of strengths. Hes the one who keeps a happy face when everyone wont,hes the glue of the scooby gang,and hes also got one nifty eye patch if i say so myself. I couldnt hate xander,I guess cause being a sarcastic geeky sorta guy I relate to him,but i can see why people would. Hes human.

I don't think that the reason so many fans dislike Xander has to do with the fact that he's human. I used to think so. I mean, concerning BtVs, there were many humans who were main characters; Giles, Willow, Tara, Wesley, Joyce. I don't see much hatred of them. Not as much as with Xander.

And Kelsey's right about how Xander treated Spike. I know a few Spike fangirls who hate Xander based on that alone, which is stupid I'll admit. I mean, if I were to hate every character who treated Spike badly, I'd hate all of them! lol

I think fans hate Xander because of simply the decisions he's made, which some fans find unforgivable. (The "Kick his ass" line, his refusal to tell Buffy about Angel's soul in Becoming, leaving Anya at the altar, etc.) Maybe the fact that he is human makes him harder to forgive, although if that is the case, I find the logic behind that difficult to understand.

I just want to remind people that as a character, Xander was created to do a certain thing and he has. And very well, actually. He was the part of the gang that was human, and supposedly more relatable to the younger male audience. Joss based his character on him in high school. Not having powers I think, makes fans more critical of Xander. They expect him to overcompensate, to attempt to overcome his "handicap" as human, but he falls short, because he's only human. Does this make sense?

Gotta go to class...

---------- Post added at 09:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 AM ----------

Alright, guys. Let's place nice. This is getting pretty heated. 🙂 We, at BB, pride ourselves on our ability to have both animated and respectful conversations, right guys?

Buddy, iDarthRosenberg, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you. (Heated discussion is fun!)

No, him living in his parents basement forever, failing to go to college(only for the shows purpose, no hate on anyone who didnt actually go to college)

Well, I know how hard it is to support yourself and your own place when you're working in service jobs, which is what Xander was doing after high school. Give the guy a break! He eventually did well for himself, I thought. Without going to college! We got a nice apartment with Anya, and a good construction job, a new car...He did well, considering.

, being an idiot(lest we forget"4x5 is 30"),

Well, I suck at math too, but don't consider myself an idiot. Xander wasn't the best student, but that doesn't make him unintelligent. At all.

still being in love with Buffy throughout the series although she never expressed any interest in him, and the fact that everyone else he went to high school with noticed he was a loser makes him a loser. I never said "oh he's a loser because i hate him" . Fail.

I have to strongly disagree here. I don't believe for a second that Xander was always in love with Buffy. He had a crush on her yes, but I argue that was gone by the end of Season 2. What Buffy and Xander have is stronger than love; they're true friends. I'm sorry you can't see that, it's one of my favorite things about the show.

I guess it all just boils down to what you define as a loser. For me, I just see it as Xander having taken a little longer to "get his life" together. Considering the screwed-up background he came from, I don't blame him. Hell, I'm 24, and not sure if my life is even together!

lol, who would have thought I'd be the person defending Xander of all people?

 

[Revolver]

him living in his parents basement forever.

Forever, huh? He moved out at the beginning of season five, which means he spent about one year at his parent's after high school. This puts his character at about age 19.....that's really not so bad at all. I stayed at my parent's for the first year after high school because my then seven year old brother got sick and nearly died. People have reasons that don't necessarily make them losers. In Xander's case, he needed to find steady employment before he could move out.

failing to go to college

As someone who has gone to college, let me tell you that despite what you hear growing up, going to college isn't the best thing to do for everyone. I have a degree and it hasn't helped me the slightest bit in this economy. All it's done is given me a bunch of money to pay back each month while I work crappy jobs that pay me about what I'd be making if I hadn't gone to college anyway. Xander found a job that worked for him that didn't require a college degree and he seemed to enjoy it. I hardly see how having a decent job that you enjoy makes you a loser. Buffy did go to college for awhile, and where'd she end up working afterward? Fast food....

being an idiot(lest we forget"4x5 is 30"),

Pretty much all the characters said stupid things at some point or another. Cordelia supposedly did well in school, but at one point she did try to fight a ticket because she'd been driving "one way." But I guess that's beside the point. Xander maybe wasn't the academic type but he was definitely very clever and witty so I wouldn't call him an idiot.

still being in love with Buffy throughout the series although she never expressed any interest in him

And you argue this despite the fact that he never expressed that kind of interest in Buffy after high school. In fact, he specifically tells Riley he isn't still into Buffy at one point. You could argue he's lying to Riley, but Xander's actions suggest otherwise. He's dating Anya, he tries to talk Buffy into going after Riley when he was about to split town, etc. He's nothing but a good friend to her after high school.

and the fact that everyone else he went to high school with noticed he was a loser makes him a loser.

Most of whom didn't even notice there were freakin' demons everywhere in that town! Yeah, they know what they're talking about.

I never said "oh he's a loser because i hate him"

No, but your arguments certainly suggest this is why you called him a loser.

Fail.

Yes you did.

Also i'm fairly certain he himself knows he's a loser

Maybe at the beginning of the series. By the end, I'm fairly certain Xander realizes his worth even if no one else acknowledges it.

 

[Tome]

I don't think any of what he did make him more or less than just human. He wasn't perfect. And like HisMrs said, other characters on the show did things much more worse than that and are still forgiven and liked.

What I liked the most about him is something I consider Lorne was bringing in Angel too. Relief from the drama with witty and funny comments. Just so the peoples around him(and us) can take a step back and look at what's going on with less negativity.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I don't think any of what he did make him more or less than just human. He wasn't perfect. And like HisMrs said, other characters on the show did things much more worse than that and are still forgiven and liked.

What I liked the most about him is something I consider Lorne was bringing in Angel too. Relief from the drama with witty and funny comments. Just so the peoples around him(and us) can take a step back and look at what's going on with less negativity.

Yeah, but IMO Xander's character served more of a purpose then just as comic relief.

 

[Tome]

Yeah, but IMO Xander's character served more of a purpose then just as comic relief.

I didn't mean he was just comic relief to me! I really liked his relationship with Buffy through the series. There was the obvious love interest at first from Xander's side, but it was dropped quick and the friendship was really great. One of the best Buffy-Xander moment for me was the scene in season 4 opener where he tells her how he thought of her as someone to look up to.

Can you really dislike him or bring forth what he did/said to her in the previous seasons after that? You can see he think of her as a really great person.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

As for Xander... I love Xander. I think that he's very funny and cute.

But I also think that he can be 100% insensitive, partially blind to those around him (even before he lost an eye), and was unfair and judgmental towards his friends a lot of the time. People may argue that he "saw" Dawn. I don't believe that that's true. What he saw was a normal girl, and being normal himself, he wanted to connect with her in order to find someone in a house full of extraordinary people that was as "ordinary" as he was.

🙂

 

[pieceofgosa]

As a teenage boy watching BtVS when it first aired, Xander was the only character I could really identify with. The akwardness, the hormones. Sure there were other male characters in the show but Giles was old & Angel, well he had his own set of unique issues. Xander is the only reason(well ok, him & the steady stream of hot chicks) that kept me watching.

 

[Anya2012]

Has anyone else noticed that most of his eps are comedic, filler eps?

The Pack
Inca Mummy Girl
The Replacement are ones I can think of at the moment.

I actually find him kind of useless and some of the stuff he says or did was so cruel.

I'm no fan of Xander.

 

[Superstar]

Angel, well he had his own set of unique issues.

Oh, I think Wishverse Xander (and Willow) did just fine as the right-hand replacements for Angelus and Darla -- being so young at vampyness. The Master must have been really hard-up for vicious lieutenants if he picked them.

Willow would never go dark or get easily bored now with magic (even if Amy was in tow) and look for the next big thing. And torture? Nah.

I believe Angel said that those inherent traits come from the person inside. I believe Darla even confirmed that with her statement to Angel that true darkness like that (re: Angelus) isn't something you learn, you have to have it inside you. Willow would never be attracted to women either.

Not like The Pack also showed us what Xander would really be like with more than human abilities or anything.

BTW: Pretty sure Xander was predestined to lose the eye and be all Sgt. Nick Fury-like. Ask Faith *twitch* maybe she knows. Or maybe it was all those jokes about fun and games until someone loses an eye. Or was it the running with scissors jokes. Or maybe it was just the Pirate costume. Maybe the Nick Fury jokes over the seasons and his pseudo-army training did him in and gave him the Nick Fury look.
Who knows?

Yep. They're human. They just wear it like a costume.
Don't think it is spandex though.

 

[Vengeance]

Xander is a character you can hate one episode and love him the next. I like that he is flawed, it adds depth to the character. There are some really good Xander-centric episodes like BB&B, The Replacement, The Zeppo, etc.. he's not just there for sarcasm, he does contribute to the group, like his speeches to Buffy in The Freshman or Into the Woods. I agree with WO that he isn't really "the guy who sees" I mean he does see some things (like Briley) but for example he never saw how hard it was for Buffy in S6.

 

[Wild At Heart]

I will admit that even though I love Xander at the end of the day, he has done alot of things that really make me mad and annoy me. I hated his jealousy of Angel & him lying to Buffy that Willow said "kick his ass" in Becoming which we know upset Buffy because she brings it up in Selfless. I'm not a huge fan of Xander but at the end of the day like I said, I do love him. But I will say the thing that Xander did that pissed me off the most was him not going through with marrying Anya. His whole "it might be that way" perspective was so pathetic. ALL relationships COULD be that way, but it's a relationship...you have to work at them & if that DOES happen, you work some more. I just thought he wasn't being a man at all & I've felt that way about alot of his actions. I agreed with Anya when she told him that he's a little boy inside because honestly, he acts like it alot of the time. The whole episode I was thinking, man Xander, grow up & act like a man. So I get some of the points that have been made but I do believe that Xander did grow alot over the course of the show.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

My personal feelings about Xander: in the first season he was my favorite character. I loved him early on. As the show developed, I liked him less and less. By the end of the series, he was one of my least favorite characters, probably just above Giles when you're talking about the main characters. I also loved Giles at the beginning but by the end i really, really couldn't stand him.

Xander had a tendency to be insensitive and judgmental. but he also had sparkling moments of sensitivity and insight, like with Willow at the end of season 6 (Grave?) and with Dawn in season 7 when she's feeling pushed aside and unimportant around all the potentials. His real down fall, for me, was leaving Anya at the alter. Even though it's clear they probably should not have gotten married considering all their doubts, that was a horrible, awful way to handle it. I would personally rather get married then have it annulled than be left with all those people at my own wedding. How utterly humiliating. I would be scarred for life if that happened to me and I wanted to wring his neck after that episode, and he never really recovered for me after that. I will never forgive him. Sorry, I just can't.

As for him being a loser, I can't agree with that at all. My kids love the episode "with two Xanders." remember that one? Sorry, I suck with the episode names. But he got split in half, his weakest traits in one body and his strongest in the other. Sure, the weak side of him was a loser; but don't we all have bad qualities? I feel like this episode was a turning point for him, because he realized that the strong, successful Xander wasn't some demon, but was in him all along. That was when he got serious about construction, moved out of his parents' basement, etc. He was able to finally develop a stronger self-image then. It's not that he was a loser before that, only that he saw himself that way and that was how he lived his life, thinking it was the best he could do. He just needed to realize that he was capable of more, and look at how things went for him. Great apartment, the ONLY Scoobie with a regular job (I was horrified that Tara and Willow lived in BUFFY'S house with Dawn and by the time they brought her back from the grave they'd run the finances into the ground - are they incapable of work??? Talk about loserly behavior!), and gone from being a grunt construction worker to the guy in charge. Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of Xander, but I don't see how you can think he's a loser.

 

[VisionGuy]

I'm not a fan of Xander. I never liked him.

 

[Beaumonde]

Has anyone else noticed that most of his eps are comedic, filler eps?

The Pack
Inca Mummy Girl
The Replacement are ones I can think of at the moment.

I actually find him kind of useless and some of the stuff he says or did was so cruel.

I'm no fan of Xander.

There was also The Zeppo which was supposed to show he wasn't useless. I don't care much for him either way.

My opinion of Xander can be that I absolutely hate him, but sometimes I think he's sort of sweet or funny. He's a big hypocritical jerk a lot of the time though, so I rarely like him that much.