Xander bashing Spuffy in Seeing Red

J

Joshua

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Why was it ok for Xander to date an ex demon but it was wrong for Buffy to be with Angel or Spike?

Like in Seeing Red Xander says "But slaughtering half of Europe is" he says that about Spike, ok didn't Anya slaughter Europe too with her wishes?

Why does Anya get away with her past crimes but Spike doesn't?
 
Taake
Taake
good question!
This is one of the times when I will actually down Xander, but the reason Spike got bashed and not Anya was because Xander was being a hypocrite. When you love someone, you're too quick sometimes glamourize them and a lot of times, you can't truly see who a person really is, flaws and all, when you love them. I think this was the case with Xander and Anya. Because he loved her, he was too quick to overlook the fact that she, too, spent hundreds of years murdering people.
 
I
InsaneMystic
[No message]
Dagenspear said:
You're surprised that Xander's a hypocrite? That's pretty much who he is.
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I think this is a huge generalisation and not far reaching at all in terms of an analysis, you're neglecting the intricacies and roundess of Xander's character.

He wasn't just a two dimensional hypocrite, he had beliefs and views that perhaps you disagree with, but I find your assessment of him to be flawed.

I think in S1 he was upset that he was put below a demon, and it completely insulted his ego and sense of self-worth, since he had such a crush on Buffy.

He viewed Buffy as some sort of higher being (IMO) and therefore could not comprehend why she would want to be with these two people whom he could not distinguish from the demon aspect.

I think there is a level of hypocrisy, in that he didn't see Anya in the same way he saw Spike and Angel, but I think it goes deeper than that.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
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castnoshadow said:
I think this is a huge generalisation and not far reaching at all in terms of an analysis, you're neglecting the intricacies and roundess of Xander's character.

He wasn't just a two dimensional hypocrite, he had beliefs and views that perhaps you disagree with, but I find your assessment of him to be flawed.

I think in S1 he was upset that he was put below a demon, and it completely insulted his ego and sense of self-worth, since he had such a crush on Buffy.

He viewed Buffy as some sort of higher being (IMO) and therefore could not comprehend why she would want to be with these two people whom he could not distinguish from the demon aspect.

I think there is a level of hypocrisy, in that he didn't see Anya in the same way he saw Spike and Angel, but I think it goes deeper than that.
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I don't see how that makes Xander's actions justified though.
 
Why does Anya get away with her past crimes but Spike doesn't?
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Because she is funny. Yes, it makes no sense for Xander to say that but everybody treats Anya like the funny foreigner, not like a serial killer. I find it rather sad that only Xander gets flak for hypocrisy when nobody else in the show thinks Anya is as bad as Spike.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
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Dagenspear said:
I don't see how that makes Xander's actions justified though.
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Oh no, it doesn't, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that it makes him human. People do stuff like that all the time, perhaps not in the context of relationships, but there's often the "one rule for you and another for everyone else" mentality in society, some people just subscribe to it more than others.

This doesn't make it OK, but it is my explanation for it.

He's just a flawed human being, everyone is in one way or another.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
[No message]
Dagenspear said:
I'm fine with flawed. But he just seemed TOO flawed, without really enough of a reason to be.
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I get what you're saying, but I don't really think it's something you can measure. You don't know what effect his awful parenting has had on him, not that that's an excuse, and I think he is in general a good person, I think if someone was too flawed, this would hint at them being inherently bad. I don't think a good person can be "too" flawed.
 
Personally with everything Anya done of her own free will (unlike Angel and Spike while souless) I don't understand why everyone choose to be friends with her. Yeah, I get that Buffy wouldn't kill an EX demon, but to be friend someone that LOVED to torture men and do all kinds of awful things to them out of her own free will and not even care about it till season 7 (and even then she didn't care all that much) is very odd.

If Spike with a soul tortured someone the trust would be lost between him and the group. Just look at what happened between everyone and Angel in season 5 of his show, or Willow at the end of season 6 when she skinned someone. Buffy beats Spike up or yells at him when he even tries to bring up something from his past, but Anya get's a free pass or dirty look even though she done much worst and STILL bragged about it freely in public as if it wasn't an issue at all.

Personally I think Buffy put up with Anya because she never cared for her all that much. She was just her (Buffy's) friends girlfriend. She was nothing to her. Zero feelings.

She hated Spike with a passion so whenever he talked about his cruel deeds she slapped him around. Then later on she liked him and beat him up because she didn't like the fact that someone she liked was a mass murderer.

Same thing with Angel. She was disgusted by him when he told her what he done to Dru.

I totally went off track. Um Xander is a double standard baby at times? xD
 
castnoshadow said:
I get what you're saying, but I don't really think it's something you can measure. You don't know what effect his awful parenting has had on him, not that that's an excuse, and I think he is in general a good person, I think if someone was too flawed, this would hint at them being inherently bad. I don't think a good person can be "too" flawed.
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I just think that maybe he felt like he was entitled to how he felt and never second guessed himself or even showed real remorse or regret for his actions. He even seemed to relish the idea that Buffy had to kill Angel.
 
C
Cast No Shadow
I think we're gonna agree to disagree, but it's been cool talking to you dude :)
HisMrs said:
This is one of the times when I will actually down Xander, but the reason Spike got bashed and not Anya was because Xander was being a hypocrite. When you love someone, you're too quick sometimes glamourize them and a lot of times, you can't truly see who a person really is, flaws and all, when you love them. I think this was the case with Xander and Anya. Because he loved her, he was too quick to overlook the fact that she, too, spent hundreds of years murdering people.
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I agree, I also I think it's harder for him to imagine (like Buffy glamourized Angel before he become Angelus... she could try, but I don't think she really could see Angel doing the horrible things he said he'd done). When it comes to Anya it's a bit the same, I think Xander likes to turn a blind eye to it (out of double standard) but also because he can't really see his Anya doing things like that.

Whereas Spike gets the raw end of the deal here because when they met him he was the big bad and they experienced his villainy first hand.
 
D
dexeded
[No message]
Because Xander's the human. And Anya was his. It's always different when it's yourself. And it sucks... but Xander's role as the human means it's always diffent when it's him.

But yes, he was being hypocritical and judgmental... but so are humans.
 
The only person who seems to treat Anya like a "serial killer" is Willow. She's the only member of the gang who doesn't really like her. I don't think that it was wrong for him to date her, but it's a total double standard. He gave Buffy all that crap for dating Angel. Ugh. I wish this had been addressed on the show haha.
 
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