Xander-The butt-insky

[redheadboi19]

Recently I have started loosing some of my love for Xander. I don't dislike him but I really don't like him as much now as I did a year ago. He is so judgmental and he gets rude about it. The part that really makes me mad is.....He sits there and gets all judgie about her relationships. He even gets rather crappy with her (in my opinion) after she finds out about Riley running around behind her back. And when he finds out she was sleeping with Spike he acted in a way that no friend ever would. But yet when she goes crazy and tries to kill them all he instantly forgives him.

Also I rather think Anya was right in "The Gift" when she said that he was only proposing because they were all going to die and he wouldn't have to go though with it.

Xander never actually maned up. He never took the time to learn to fight for himself. Or to speak up on his behalf. I find this so annoying. Even Dawn learned to fight better then he did.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I'm not going to argue but I vehemently disagree with this point of view.

 

[zobothehobo]

On my first watch, this is exactly what I thought... and then I tried to look at it in the way of Xander sees things others don't... he's the observer... And it made it a bit better. on my second and third full re-watches, I liked Xander more because everyone else did. But there will always be a part of me who really dislikes him.

 

[Ms.Trick]

I see a lot of Xander hate in here!
I didn't like him at first. I thought he was not as much of an interesting character as the others.
But the more I rewatch the show, the more I realize he is not that much of a bad character.

Sure, he can be incredibly annoying, judgemental,he makes a lot of mistakes, he can be uselessly unkind...But in the end, I think his good sides are enough to make him be loved.
He is a good friend, and yeah he can be a real jerk at saying things, he can be mean, but he is honest, it's better than pretending everything is ok. Sometimes, he does push it too far, like with the whole Spuffy thing but it's his right not to understand stuff or not to be ok with them.

I must admit, I mostly like him for his speeches in Into the Woods (to Buffy and Anya), in Grave, and in Potential. I think those three wonderful speeches show his depth, and how much of an amazing person he can be.
Sure I would have been happy to see some more Super-Speech-Xander action because that man is great, but I really like his character more than I used to!

 

[msfantastico87]

I can't say I really hate him, in fact he is one of my favorite characters, but you do bring up some valid points. He is a very judgmental person and after my third re-watch, I can agree about him proposing to Anya as a last resort thing. I think it's one of the reasons he ends up leaving her at the altar.

But like Chocoslayer said, he is a very good friend. He will do anything to protect his friends, which causes him to be a smidge judgmental.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Ok, maybe sometimes he was over the line.. but I'm never going to agree that he proposed only because he thought they're going to die..

 

[sosa lola]

I know the title is an insult to Xander, but I really love it, it's so funny. I wish I thought it up and wrote it in one of my fics -someone insulting Xander, I wanna say Spike but it doesn't sound like him.

About what you said. You're not wrong in a lot of it. Xander has a lot of bad traits; he's probably the closest to human beings than most of the characters. His flaws rub us the wrong way because we see them every day in so many people in our lives and in us. But that doesn't mean dismissing the good in Xander: his bravery, his loyalty, his protectiveness, and his sense of humor - how many times did Xander make long, wearisome hours of research fun with his jokes and wit? How many times did Xander bring a smile on Buffy or Willow's face when they were down? That should also count.

Xander never actually maned up. He never took the time to learn to fight for himself. Or to speak up on his behalf. I find this so annoying. Even Dawn learned to fight better then he did.

During the high school years, Buffy made it clear that the fight isn't Xander's or Willow's business. It's hers. Let's see the other characters:

Willow doesn't know jack about fighting, but she has power inside of her, and that made her important. But take away her magic, and she's much much weaker than Xander.

Giles had years of training because he was destined to be a watcher, just like Buffy's destiny was being a Slayer.

Dawn only learned how to fight because Buffy thought she should. And by that time, Xander was the foreman at work, he's got his own crew, and he's what? Twenty-one? He's the most successful Scooby by S7 -wish Cordelia could see him after mocking him for years- and he's got a full-time job that happens off-screen yet he still finds time to help Buffy. But no time to train. He's got his hands full.

Though Xander found time to learn how to shoot an arrow -check how he aimed at the bringer's hand so skillfully in Dirty Girls.

 

[Kean]

I know the title is an insult to Xander, but I really love it, it's so funny. I wish I thought it up and wrote it in one of my fics -someone insulting Xander, I wanna say Spike but it doesn't sound like him.

It has Cordy written all over it!

As for the topic at hand, well, I can't say agree. There are several things Xander has done that I have huge huge issues with. But I have to say, the man (and I can't stress that enough) that has been at the heart of S8 is pretty damn hard to dislike. He has been Buffy's rock.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I loved Xander early on. By season 6 I didn't like him at all anymore. 🙁

 

[Tome]

Recently I have started loosing some of my love for Xander. I don't dislike him but I really don't like him as much now as I did a year ago. He is so judgmental and he gets rude about it. The part that really makes me mad is.....He sits there and gets all judgie about her relationships. He even gets rather crappy with her (in my opinion) after she finds out about Riley running around behind her back. And when he finds out she was sleeping with Spike he acted in a way that no friend ever would. But yet when she goes crazy and tries to kill them all he instantly forgives him.

Also I rather think Anya was right in "The Gift" when she said that he was only proposing because they were all going to die and he wouldn't have to go though with it.

Xander never actually maned up. He never took the time to learn to fight for himself. Or to speak up on his behalf. I find this so annoying. Even Dawn learned to fight better then he did.

Totally disagree with what you said. Xander is the man! First of all, what you described as judgmental was mostly with Buffy, and this is easily explained by the fact he always saw her as this big hero. For him she's supposed to be perfect, never selfish, never do mistakes ect... Which is completely stupid to expect from someone, even Buff. But he isn't a judgmental person in general.

As for the speech after Riley gave her an ultimatum... Hum, that was actually an awesome Xand moment! He made her realize that she was taking him for granted and for a moment to think about if she really needed/loved him or not. He allowed her to FINALLY think about it seriously(that's obviously my opinion). And as we've seen, it looks like she DID need him.

I don't think he proposed because he thought they would all die. That is not Xander at all. He's not this pessimistic guy. He had faith they would be victorious and I felt like him asking Anya to marry him was his way to SHOW he BELIEVED they would go through that day 😎 What happened afterwards in season 6 is a different story. Which I'd gladly discuss about if you'd like me to.

 

[dan k]

.

As for the speech after Riley gave her an ultimatum... Hum, that was actually an awesome Xand moment! He made her realize that she was taking him for granted and for a moment to think about if she really needed/loved him or not. He allowed her to FINALLY think about it seriously(that's obviously my opinion). And as we've seen, it looks like she DID need him.

Totally agree when you say that was an awesome Xander moment. He opened her eyes to the problems she was previously oblivous. He could have walked away after she said leave him alone but he stayed to give her the information she needed to here. He wanted her to be happy, i'm not sure how you could fault him for that.

Of course Xander makes mistakes but so does everyone during the show. What you can't question is his heart and dedication to help his friends. He was constantly there putting his life on the line and he also gave memorable speeches which to me were magical moments which the show offered so often.

His speech to Dawn is so uplifting, it makes you emotional as does his speechg to the potentials about Buffy.

I can understand you disliking Xander for some of the decisions he makes but when you look at him as a person, his heart is in the right place and you won't find many better friends then him.

 

[caitaintdead]

I'm definitely not a big fan of Xander, I don't like judgemental people in real life so why would I like them on television? His sense of 'humour' really rubs me the wrong way as well. I don't find it funny at all. It's that kind of attention seeking humour that always bugs me. I definitely prefer a more deadpan humour.

I'm trying to see past all his horrible traits these days, but I find it difficult.

I think Xander would actually bug a lot of people in real life.

 

[redheadboi19]

Thank you all for your posts. Even if you do not agree with me I do appreciate the feed back. I loveing hearing other peoples opinions on subjects that I think about. It helps to broaden and open the mind.

As for what Chocoslayer said....I don't hate Xander. I do see that he has good points. And I love his seance of humor.

As for sosa lola and Kean. I did not get the title from anyone in the show. As far as I know Xander was never called that by anone. I just put his name wit ha term that I feel fits him.

 

[Tome]

redheadboi19 agrees: Please share your opinon of what happend in season 6. I want to hear it. And thank you for all of your feed back. Even if you do disagree with me. As I was once told that is what BB is all about. Sharing your ideas truthfully

I think in S6 Xander realized what he had proposed for was not gonna be as simple as he first thought. Thinking about it isn't the same thing as living it every day. I totally get the fact that at that ONE time when he proposed to Anya, he believed in it and thought it would work. But obviously as the time went on and the marriage got closer, his fears creeped in... He didn't wanna act like his father, he didn't want to have kids that would perpetuate it. My personal opinion has always been that you shouldn't have kids if you YOURSELF are not going well. I know this will probably not be very popular, but why bring kids to life if it's to turn them into more - pardon the language - screwed up peoples??

So yea it was his fault for proposing in the first place. For getting Anya hopes up about it all. But I understand and can agree with his choice in the end when he decides not to marry her. I know it's terrible for Anya and she had all the rights to be mad at him. What I don't agree on afterward is when she keeps trying to hurt him through his friends. That was very stupid and immature. No matter the reasons, it was his choice, and he didn't do all that on purpose to hurt her. He had to live with the consequences of his choice, but there's no way in hell what she did was right. Stop talking to him, fine. Despise him and don't help him again, fine. You don't go and try to - pretty much - kill him.

 

[zobothehobo]

I think in S6 Xander realized what he had proposed for was not gonna be as simple as he first thought. Thinking about it isn't the same thing as living it every day. I totally get the fact that at that ONE time when he proposed to Anya, he believed in it and thought it would work. But obviously as the time went on and the marriage got closer, his fears creeped in... He didn't wanna act like his father, he didn't want to have kids that would perpetuate it. My personal opinion has always been that you shouldn't have kids if you YOURSELF are not going well. I know this will probably not be very popular, but why bring kids to life if it's to turn them into more - pardon the language - screwed up peoples??

So yea it was his fault for proposing in the first place. For getting Anya hopes up about it all. But I understand and can agree with his choice in the end when he decides not to marry her. I know it's terrible for Anya and she had all the rights to be mad at him. What I don't agree on afterward is when she keeps trying to hurt him through his friends. That was very stupid and immature. No matter the reasons, it was his choice, and he didn't do all that on purpose to hurt her. He had to live with the consequences of his choice, but there's no way in hell what she did was right. Stop talking to him, fine. Despise him and don't help him again, fine. You don't go and try to - pretty much - kill him.

She was a vengeance demon for 1000 years. She didn't know anything other than "guy hurts me, I kill him." I mean last time she was human and a guy hurt her, she turned him into a troll... and that was BEFORE she had 1000 years of being a demon under her belt. 1000 years is a long time and I'm betting vengeance is a hard habit to break.

 

[caitaintdead]

The Hells Bells Xander stuff just confirms everything I think of Xander. He is weak and a scaredy cat! I thought his motto was WWBD? (What would Buffy do). That is so NOT what Buffy would do!

 

[Tome]

She was a vengeance demon for 1000 years. She didn't know anything other than "guy hurts me, I kill him." I mean last time she was human and a guy hurt her, she turned him into a troll... and that was BEFORE she had 1000 years of being a demon under her belt. 1000 years is a long time and I'm betting vengeance is a hard habit to break.

Oh I know she was. But that doesn't make it right 😛 It wasn't like she lost her soul(no pun intended) right after he left her at the altar...

---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------

The Hells Bells Xander stuff just confirms everything I think of Xander. He is weak and a scaredy cat! I thought his motto was WWBD? (What would Buffy do). That is so NOT what Buffy would do!

All the characters are weak at some point... Willow was when she started getting into the whole drug/magic addiction. Faith was when she couldn't tell the truth to Giles about the man she killed. Giles was when he let Buffy all alone during S6. It goes on and on... It's not because a character is weak at one point that it defines him/her. Was he weak when he went right in front of Dark Willow, ready to die to save her? Taking blows after blows just to finally forces her to start crying? Was he weak when he won a battle of wills against a freaking psycho zombie in the school basement in 'The Zeppo'? Nope.

 

[caitaintdead]

I think comparing Xander leaving Anya at the altar to Willow becoming addicted to magic is a very poor comparison. Willow had an addiction. Personally I can't see Buffy running away from a wedding. We see Buffy time and time again follow through on what the right thing to do is, rather than what she wants.

The 'weak and a scaredy cat' comment was only half serious... But it was half serious! He even openly says himself that he hides from danger. It's not really a big surprise or out of character that he would be scared. Doesn't everyone always argue that one of the things they like about him is that he has weaknesses? Isn't being weak one of his biggest weaknesses? Something that makes him 'normal'?

 

[Tome]

I think comparing Xander leaving Anya at the altar to Willow becoming addicted to magic is a very poor comparison. Willow had an addiction. Personally I can't see Buffy running away from a wedding. We see Buffy time and time again follow through on what the right thing to do is, rather than what she wants.

The 'weak and a scaredy cat' comment was only half serious... But it was half serious! He even openly says himself that he hides from danger. It's not really a big surprise or out of character that he would be scared. Doesn't everyone always argue that one of the things they like about him is that he has weaknesses? Isn't being weak one of his biggest weaknesses? Something that makes him 'normal'?

She had an addiction that got worse when Tara left her. If you wanna debate what is ''weak'', then for me having to use ''drugs''(pretty much how they made it look like) to feel better over something IS weak. Not only that but it doesn't bring anything good to anyone. While on the other hand Xander fears were about hurting peoples he loved. Sure we could argue all day that his fears would never have materialized, but the point still stand that he left her at the altar because he didn't want to hurt her or perpetuate what he thought he had got from his father. That is actually less weak than taking drugs because you can't go over something by yourself.

As for the other thing you're talking about. I don't know about others but what I like about him is his empathy(*winks*), his loyalty, his courage, his devotion towards his friends, and more importantly his humanness.

 

[caitaintdead]

All Xander had to do was make the decision to not physically abuse his wife and/or children. All he has to do is say to himself 'hey, I'm not going to do that, I have control of my destiny'.

I can argue this till the cows come home, because I'm so positive that I'm right! Of course, when it comes to a matter of opinion - everyone's opinion is as right as mine if they are as positive in their head of their opinion.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

Haha, as I was typing it, I was even typing in SMG's voice!