Xander's approval of Riley

caritas08

lornelover
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Sorry if this has been discussed before but does anyone find it interesting that Xander's approval of Riley as Buffy's boyfriend is such a complete contrast to his hatred of Angel. I know there's the obvious answer that Riley is human, but Xander seems willing to go to such great lengths to defend Riley in Into the Woods and convince Buffy that it was her fault. He never seemed concerned that Riley might be dangerous for her to date when he was involved with the Initiative or after Riley got addicted to going to Vampire Brothels.

I've always found it funny that Xander never seems to approve of the guys his girls date (remarks about Oz in Phases, constant hatred for Angel, Wesley/Cordelia, Spike/Buffy).
 
I know that the main factor in Xander's approval of Riley was the fact that he was a human, but there were other reasons behind it...I mean, he didn't approve of Scott Hope just because he was a human.

But, besides that, I definitely think Xander liked Riley so much because he was just such a cool guy. He was suave, good-looking, stealthy, secret agent-y, decked out in the latest military technology...basically, he was what every Average Joe like Xander wanted to become, and clearly, he admired that. Of course he wouldn't want him to leave. And he would certainly want his best friend to date him over two vampires who had killed hundreds of people in their day.
 
November
November
just what I was guna say:)
Karol
Karol
[No message]
Also, Reilly was a good guy, he wanted the best for Buffy and although i didnt really care about Reilly, i think Buffy was Very Wrong in this episode.
 
Well, I think Xander knew when to stop. What was he going to say about Riley? He's too "nice, normal, polite and white bread"? He gets mild shots of concern when they first find out about the Initiative, but still, not knowing much about it was hard to say good or bad right off the bat.

There's only so much SANE complaining one can do, right? Then they just turn into a big whiney butt!
 
Why wouldn't he get along with the only one of Buffy's serious boyfriends who never tried to kill her? He's gotta get some kudos points for that, man. Also, it was probably a great, big relief to have another semi-normal guy to hang out with for a change.

In Into the Woods specifically, though, I thought his speech was directed more toward himself than toward Buffy. I think he saw in Buffy's neglect of Riley a reflection of his own neglect of Anya. They both treated their partners poorly. The difference was that Xander observed the fallout of Buffy's treatment of Riley and sought to correct it in his own life before his relationship with Anya fell apart like Buffy's did. I think seeing Buffy disrespect, devalue, and ultimately lose Riley made him realize how much Anya meant to him, so that pep talk between friends was not so much about him liking Riley as it was about him loving Anya.
 
this might not have been a huge factor, but xander disliked angel from the beginning because he liked buffy himself. obviously, after angelus and all, that developed into a stronger and more justified hatred, but that was still part of the reason. with riley, however, xander had found anya, and was happy in his own relationship. he had no need to be jealous. add that to the aforementioned "riley's a human, and not a vampiric former-killer" business, plus what palabra just mentioned above, and there you have it 😀.
 
You have to also consider the fact that one of Xander's favorite comic book characters was Sgt. Rock, and his pseudo-military memories helped him to identify with Riley, something that he could never do with either Angel or Spike. Also, Giles approved of and liked Riley, which made it easier to admire him.
 
During S3, Xander didn't seem to dislike Scott Hope, so I guess his jealous days died in S2.

His dislike of Angel in S3 is deeper than just "He Got Buffy and I Didn't".

Riley was a good guy, a gentleman, mingled so well with all Buffy's friends, and most of all, he was human. Riley and Buffy could have a future together with kids and everything. Of course, Xander will like him.
 
I get why Xander liked Riley (as everyone has pointed out already) but I cannot help but see the double standards. I agree with PV that during his speech in Into the Woods he was speaking more of himself than Buffy but why would you push your friend to be with an addict, which was essentially what Riley was. Maybe that's a step up from mass murdering fiend but it isn't exactly happily ever after either. I just found it a bit odd that Xander was so willing to overlook Riley's mistakes, regardless of how serious and possibily dangerous they were. Did he really like him that much?
 
I dont see how Reilly made any mistakes, except from into the woods, letting the vamp bite him,but thats only because Buffy was shutting him out, Reilly always tried to do the right thing and treat Buffy well, and she did definetly treat him like the rebound guy.
I cant think of any reason Xander wouldt like Reilly. But jealousy and the Angelus phase made him, justifiably hate Angel.
 
^^Re Keanoite. Ive not seen s5 for a while, but, was Xander and Anya have relationship problems at this point in time? I didnt get that he was speaking more for himself at all.
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but why would you push your friend to be with an addict, which was essentially what Riley was. I just found it a bit odd that Xander was so willing to overlook Riley's mistakes, regardless of how serious and possibily dangerous they were

Reilly wasnt some hardened junkie, he just had some problems, Its no reason for Buffy to be getting high and mighty again, after all, as weak as Reilly was for doing it, he only did it because Buffy was ignoring him. And he's still a good guy that would do anything for Buffy. Xander pushed his friend to be with this 'Addict' because it was the right thing to do.
And apart from the 'addict' thing, what other serious/dangerous mistakes did Reilly make?
 
^^Re Keanoite. Ive not seen s5 for a while, but, was Xander and Anya have relationship problems at this point in time? I didnt get that he was speaking more for himself at all.
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Reilly wasnt some hardened junkie, he just had some problems, Its no reason for Buffy to be getting high and mighty again, after all, as weak as Reilly was for doing it, he only did it because Buffy was ignoring him. And he's still a good guy that would do anything for Buffy. Xander pushed his friend to be with this 'Addict' because it was the right thing to do.
And apart from the 'addict' thing, what other serious/dangerous mistakes did Reilly make?

Xander and Anya weren't having problems exactly but she had no idea where she stood in the relationship or how he truly felt about her. They were fighting ( more than usual) and things were tense. The reason I think he was speaking more to himself (or had an epiphany of sorts) is that he told Buffy that she was neglecting Riley and pushing him away. Riley knew how he felt for Buffy but had no idea how she felt for him, the same could be said for Anya and Xander. Also the fact that he goes to Anya and professes his undying love for her after said conversation with Buffy helps back up the the theory that while he was trying to make Buffy realise the error of her ways he ended up realising his own.


To be honest the addict "thing" was a big enough mistake for me. He wasn't just getting his kicks from some chemicals he was getting it from being bitten by vamps. Who knows what he would have done for the bite, how long would it take before he was taking vamps home for the buzz? He put himself, Buffy and everyone they knew at risk. Riley was this close from being Willow circa season 6.

Doing it for Buffy is the absolute worst excuse I have ever heard of. He did it for himself, the same as any addict, and he was an addict. He didn't do it for the craic he did it cuz he needed the thrill of the bite.
 
L
Lou
Yes, BAD EXCUSE!
Airam
Airam
Yes Riley= bad, very BAD, not to mention boring.
Personally, I see it as an example of just how wrong Xander's opinions on Buffy's guys were.
Xander wanted someone 'safe' for Buffy, and seeing as it couldn't be himself, Riley was obviously the kind of guy he liked for her. And his actions, turned out to be more harmful than her 'dangerous guys' who actually helped her feel safe.
And that's what it was all about, she FELT safe with other guys, but she was CONSTANTLY worried about Riley's ability to handle himself in hairy situations. He made her happy, but that wasn't really enough.

Xander believed in the "all around good guy" to prevail in winning over Buffy's heart, but he failed to factor in Riley's insecurities and ability to "fall from grace" as he did so quickly. Spike and Angel had already fallen, there was nowhere to go but up in their redemption and seeking to be a better person (or vamp as the case may be 😛)
 
I guess I'm just putting myself in Xander's shoes and if one of my best gal pal's boyfriends was going to slums and doing something as unfaithful or dangerous as Riley was I wouldn't stick up for him, even if I thought my gal pal had been kind of closed off from him.

I'll admit I'm not much of a Riley fan, but it just seemed weird to me that Riley would sleep with her, then go get bitten the same night, then give her an ultimatum before she's had any time to process what's been going on, and after all this Xander sticks up for him. Buffy was going through so much with Dawn and her mom that her blindness to Riley's unhappiness is at least a little excusible.

The idea that Xander was preaching more to himself than to Buffy makes a little more sense to me. I guess I've just never really cared for the way Xander would condemn Buffy about Angel. I love his speech to Anya at the end by the way.
 
To be honest the addict "thing" was a big enough mistake for me. He wasn't just getting his kicks from some chemicals he was getting it from being bitten by vamps. Who knows what he would have done for the bite, how long would it take before he was taking vamps home for the buzz? He put himself, Buffy and everyone they knew at risk. Riley was this close from being Willow circa season 6.

Doing it for Buffy is the absolute worst excuse I have ever heard of. He did it for himself, the same as any addict, and he was an addict. He didn't do it for the craic he did it cuz he needed the thrill of the bite.

I didnt say he done it FOR Buffy, I said he did it BECAUSE of her(attitude). Riley respected her and treated her well, he basically loved her big time and felt he wasnt getting it back, and Buffys his first girlfriend, he'd have been heartbroken by Buffys attitude.
I know he was weak(remember, just because your strong dosnt mean everyone is) for going to get bit, but he was confused and hurt and needed an outlet, similar to people that cut themselves.
But after you seen how much he liked Buffy and how well he treated her, you still think she should have just abandoned him? No second chance to a good guy?
I think, if she loved him, she owed him a second chance.
Also, s2, Innocence, Buffy couldve killed Angelus, she let him go, he killed Jenny, Well done Buffy.
We all make mistakes, Buffys in s2 was well worse than Rileys addiction, so he put everyone at risk(he didnt really but for this point we'll pretend he did) but who in the Buffyverse hasnt?
 
Okay... Riley's acting out wasn't about addiction. It was about Riley's feelings of inadequacy. He said it himself: those women needed something from him (his blood) and were willing to give him a bit of a thrill in return. The important factor here was that Riley needed to be needed. But Buffy didn't need Riley. Instead of leaning on him when Joyce was sick or whenever there was any sort of trouble, she was brave and stoic. It didn't help that vamps like Angel (Forever) and Spike (Fool for Love) kept being there to pick up the pieces for her when she shut Riley out or when vamps like Angel and Dracula could put a mark on Buffy that Riley couldn't equal, either. It wasn't coincidence that Riley's whores were vamp whores instead of regular human ones. They were as close as Riley could get to Buffy's weird vamp thing. I think Riley was not only trying to feel needed, but also trying to get in touch with the side of Buffy that she didn't want to show him. This was waaaaay more emotionally complicated than addiction. Any rush Riley got out of it was secondary to the calming effect of being able to act on his negative emotions without unloading on Buffy during such an inappropriate time. Honestly, I think he was trying to protect her feelings by handling his feelings on his own rather than by laying all of his baggage on her when things were so rough.

I don't think Riley's so-called addiction made him dangerous or a bad guy. In the end, Buffy didn't, either. She obviously ran to at least attempt a reconciliation. I think what upset Buffy was the fact that she had to face her own conduct toward him -- and she didn't like what she saw. I also think she felt cheated on and cheapened, as would most women. Obviously, Riley's lust for the dark side probably made her face that part of her at least a little bit, too, and dislike it. I think Buffy felt betrayed by Riley's fall from grace at least in part because it was her own fall, too. She couldn't just be distant and pretend everything was all sunshiney and nice in the black-and-white world of their seemingly solid, stable relationship. I think it threw her that she had to work for this relationship, too, and that everything didn't just fall into place.

All of this considered, why wouldn't Xander encourage them to work things out? The problems were complex, but the solution was fairly simple. It involved Buffy crying on Riley's shoulder once in awhile and letting him into the inner-sanctum of her psyche and her core group of family/friends (as well as distancing herself from the bitey vamp boys). Given the situation, I don't think Riley's actions were unjustifiable or particularly difficult to understand. In time, I'm sure Buffy could have (and would have) forgiven him. Really, getting bitten by a few vamps isn't the stuff of apocalypses -- or anything Buffy hasn't done, herself. I don't think Xander, who can still love Willow even when she's trying to destroy the world, is one to turn his back on someone just for getting a little fang action. After all, if that were the case, he would have turned his back on Buffy long ago.
 
S
Spirit_Of_Fred
resisting urge to rep. ...not resisting well. you said what i was going to say, and then some, and that "some" was all this amazing and insightful stuff :).
I never saw Riley going to vampires to bite him as addiction. It was just him acting out and wanting someone to need him. Not to mention that after the Dracula thing, Riley wanted to know what it feels like to be bitten by a vampire. What was it like for Buffy. Also, Spike wanted Buffy and Riley to break up, and he spitted out all that crap about a monster in her man. Dawn as well commented that Riley didn't make Buffy cry like Angel did, which he probably took it as "Buffy cared more about Angel than she does about me right now." and the fact that he lost his powers and became a helpless kitten as Buffy called him, not to his face, but to Dawn and her mom, which Dawn later told Riley.
 
But after you seen how much he liked Buffy and how well he treated her, you still think she should have just abandoned him? No second chance to a good guy?
I think, if she loved him, she owed him a second chance.

That's the thing though, she didn't love him. Even Riley knew it, he tells Xander in The Replacement:

RILEY: (grinning) Hey, I'm well aware of how lucky I am. Like, lottery lucky. Buffy's like nobody else in the world. When I'm with her it's like ... it's like *I'm* split in two. Half of me is just ... on fire, going crazy if I'm not touching her. The other half ... is so still and peaceful ... just perfectly content. Just knows: this is the one.
(he smiles a little, continues packing for a moment, then looks up at Xander again.)
RILEY: But she doesn't love me.
(Xander stares at him, not knowing what to say. Buffy re-enters.)

Not catching up to that helicopter was the best thing that could've happened to that relationship for both their sakes.
 
Xander could identify with Riley because they both were "brothers in arms", even though Xander's term of service was brief and magically-induced. He could see himself in Riley and thus approved of the latter's relationship with Buffy, since he could not consumate with her himself. Deep huh? 😀
 
I don't think it's about Xander not getting Buffy. He's over her, plus, he still doesn't get her. But Riley was a good guy, he's this stand up guy that Xander wishes for Buffy, someone who can give Buffy a future, unlike the undead. Also, Buffy looks normal and happy with him, unlike the angst she had with Angel. So I can see why Xander approved of him.
 
Airam
Airam
Umm, wait a second, lol, is that Spike laying kisses on Xander's back in your banner? HOw did I just now catch on to that? Wow, just wrong.
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