Xander's "jealousy"

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wehappyfew

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I watched "Restless" the other day and Xander's dream is my favorite (followed by Buffy's)...the playground/ice cream truck scene is soooo cool to me.
My favorite line of Xander's dream is when Buffy says "I'm way ahead of you, big brother."
That made me rethink Xander's characterization of being jealous of Buffy's boyfriends.
We all know Xander had a crush on Buffy (most nostably in season 1), but maybe his feelings towards her go beyond that. He saw his girls (Buffy & Willow) as his sisters, I remember one episode where he doesn't want to budge until he knows that Buffy & Willow are all right. So, maybe Xander's "jealousy" is more of an overprotective older brothers rather than....green envy. The way he approves of Riley reflects this also, and his anger when he finds out that Spike has tried to rape Buffy.
Yeah, I'm a Xander fan and he's said some dooshy things over the series' run...but I'm gonna cut him some slack. He's a good guy, and really has good intentions (yes even the whole "kick his ass" line in season 2).
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it's so cool that so many years after the shows over....it still has resonance with all of us....sooo cool.
 
wehappyfew said:
I watched "Restless" the other day and Xander's dream is my favorite (followed by Buffy's)...the playground/ice cream truck scene is soooo cool to me.
My favorite line of Xander's dream is when Buffy says "I'm way ahead of you, big brother."
That made me rethink Xander's characterization of being jealous of Buffy's boyfriends.
We all know Xander had a crush on Buffy (most nostably in season 1), but maybe his feelings towards her go beyond that. He saw his girls (Buffy & Willow) as his sisters, I remember one episode where he doesn't want to budge until he knows that Buffy & Willow are all right. So, maybe Xander's "jealousy" is more of an overprotective older brothers rather than....green envy. The way he approves of Riley reflects this also, and his anger when he finds out that Spike has tried to rape Buffy.
Yeah, I'm a Xander fan and he's said some dooshy things over the series' run...but I'm gonna cut him some slack. He's a good guy, and really has good intentions (yes even the whole "kick his ass" line in season 2).
---
it's so cool that so many years after the shows over....it still has resonance with all of us....sooo cool.
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I totally agree with everything you said above. I don't think Xander sees Buffy like that at all after season 1. Thier friendship is, I think, one of the strongest and most touching in the series. He is her "strength" and she is his hero. She trusts him with her life.

Yes, Xander has done some questionable things, but they all have. He's the best guy friend I wish I had 🙂

That line is also my favorite in the episode...
 
I think originally it was jealously. During S2 when Angel turned into Angelus there was still bits of jealously but he started to be over-protective with Buffy and Willow. I think once he and Cordelia hooked up he had gotten over Buffy for the most part. As the Seasons progressed though his Big Brother role among them had increased especially with Buffy dying.
 
I always felt like Xander's looking out for Buffy was a little on the patronizing side...I actually found Xander to be a bit of a misogynist at times. It was like he never trusted Buffy and Willow to make their own decisions, or at least to make the RIGHT ones. I guess it was his way of being "important"...
 
PurplePoof said:
I always felt like Xander's looking out for Buffy was a little on the patronizing side...I actually found Xander to be a bit of a misogynist at times. It was like he never trusted Buffy and Willow to make their own decisions, or at least to make the RIGHT ones. I guess it was his way of being "important"...
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I agree. And thank you, because Xander's protective attitude always bothered me and I wasn't sure why till reading this. It did feel very patronizing. It got to a point where you just want to say "Dude....Buffy's the Slayer...and Willow's got more power in her little pinkie than you do in your whole body...they can take care of themselves."
 
^ Nah. I loved that he loved them. By the end, the love between the Scoobies had become a very familial thing. I think they were all a little over protective of one another, so I don't see Xander's feelings or actions as being misogynistic or patronizing. It's natural to look out for one another in a family. By the time the series ends, I think Xander and Buffy have a very special bond that has far surpassed his little unrequited high school crush. Besides, I'm pretty sure Xander was over that by "Into the Woods," when talking to Buffy makes him realize how deeply and passionately he loves Anya.

Aww. Xander's loyalty and love for the Scooby girls gives me warm and fuzzy feelings. It makes me wanna hug puppies and stuff. I do not think his feelings for Buffy and/or Willow are static and consistently based on jealousy. Instead, I think his feelings grow more and more genuine as he matures. Of course, that doesn't mean Bander can never happen; sometimes, the best loves grow out of formerly platonic friendships. It just means that I don't think Xander's petty, hormone fueled teenage jealousy sticks around while the rest of him matures.
 
This reminds me of something I read in an interview once with SMG. She said that she truly believed that Joss always intended for Buffy to end up with Xander. I don't remember where to find this, but if anyone knows, you should post it. 🙂

I found this very surprising....in the show, this just would have nothave been believable, and Joss knew that (thank-god). Xander and Buffy are just such deep friends...I can't really see it turning into love. She's never shown even the slightest indication that she might be interested in him...you know?
 
I have to disagree. Xander, at least in the early stages always saw Buffy as a possible love interest and he was always the "good" guy as it pertains to men in Buffy's eyes and we all knows that she likes her men "bad". Xander hated her choice in men because he could never really be that guy.
 
hannahfngrl26 said:
I have to disagree. Xander, at least in the early stages always saw Buffy as a possible love interest and he was always the "good" guy as it pertains to men in Buffy's eyes and we all knows that she likes her men "bad". Xander hated her choice in men because he could never really be that guy.
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Wait, I'm confused. You mean you agree? 'cause you pretty much just reinforced what I just said. Yes, Xander had a thing for Buffy early on. Yes, he knew it would never work because Buffy likes her men "evil" (as she says in pangs).

Wait, are you saying that Xander always had a thing for her? If you're saying that I strongly disagree. I think the reason he hated Spike and all the others (except Riley) was not because he wanted to be them - but because he cared for Buffy and wanted to protect her. Like a sister. He never makes the moves on her after season 1 and never makes any indication, in my opinion, that he thinks of her as anything but a close friend. I hope I'm making sense. I need to go to bed...
 
palabravampiress said:
^ Nah. I loved that he loved them. By the end, the love between the Scoobies had become a very familial thing. I think they were all a little over protective of one another, so I don't see Xander's feelings or actions as being misogynistic or patronizing. It's natural to look out for one another in a family. By the time the series ends, I think Xander and Buffy have a very special bond that has far surpassed his little unrequited high school crush. Besides, I'm pretty sure Xander was over that by "Into the Woods," when talking to Buffy makes him realize how deeply and passionately he loves Anya.

Aww. Xander's loyalty and love for the Scooby girls gives me warm and fuzzy feelings. It makes me wanna hug puppies and stuff. I do not think his feelings for Buffy and/or Willow are static and consistently based on jealousy. Instead, I think his feelings grow more and more genuine as he matures. Of course, that doesn't mean Bander can never happen; sometimes, the best loves grow out of formerly platonic friendships. It just means that I don't think Xander's petty, hormone fueled teenage jealousy sticks around while the rest of him matures.
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I agree with all of this. And please let me LOL at "Xander's loyalty and love for the Scooby girls gives me warm and fuzzy feelings. It makes me wanna hug puppies and stuff. "
I think Xanders jealousy transformed as he did. IMO Xander didn't challenge the girls so much as he was truly concerned. It wasn't a "jesus, women can't do anything right" sort of thing, occasionally it was more a "what if" sort of thing. I believe that after all of the things that had gone awry on the hellmouth over the years, a little bit of sporadic paranoia would be valid.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
Wait, I'm confused. You mean you agree? 'cause you pretty much just reinforced what I just said. Yes, Xander had a thing for Buffy early on. Yes, he knew it would never work because Buffy likes her men "evil" (as she says in pangs).

Wait, are you saying that Xander always had a thing for her? If you're saying that I strongly disagree. I think the reason he hated Spike and all the others (except Riley) was not because he wanted to be them - but because he cared for Buffy and wanted to protect her. Like a sister. He never makes the moves on her after season 1 and never makes any indication, in my opinion, that he thinks of her as anything but a close friend. I hope I'm making sense. I need to go to bed...
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Sorry, I have had much wine. I just think that even later Xander was always jealous because he is never going to be the guy that Buffy really wants
 
PurplePoof said:
I always felt like Xander's looking out for Buffy was a little on the patronizing side...I actually found Xander to be a bit of a misogynist at times. It was like he never trusted Buffy and Willow to make their own decisions, or at least to make the RIGHT ones. I guess it was his way of being "important"...
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Misogynist? The guy who considers Buffy his hero and voted Willow to be their leader after Buffy's death?

Maybe Buffy is patronizing, too, because she pushes Xander aside (The Zeppo and End of Days) and doesn't trust him to take care of himself.

I don't think there's an ugly word to describe the love and protectiveness between friendships. Sure, it can be annoying to have your guy friend hate your "bad boy" boyfriend, but he's only feeling this way because he cares.
 
sosa_lola, lots of guys could do worse and still be a sub-conscious misogynist. I don't know, I think he learned to resent women because every woman around him was more important and powerful than he was...and his "protectiveness" was his way of regaining some of that male "power"...
 
W
wehappyfew
you crazy
hannahfngrl26 said:
Sorry, I have had much wine. I just think that even later Xander was always jealous because he is never going to be the guy that Buffy really wants
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That's totally ok if you believe that! You don't have to be sorry. I just disagree to that being the reason he hated Buffy's other boyfriends.

Well, maybe someday he will 🙂 She's cookie dough.
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sosa lola said:
Misogynist? The guy who considers Buffy his hero and voted Willow to be their leader after Buffy's death?

Maybe Buffy is patronizing, too, because she pushes Xander aside (The Zeppo and End of Days) and doesn't trust him to take care of himself.

I don't think there's an ugly word to describe the love and protectiveness between friendships. Sure, it can be annoying to have your guy friend hate your "bad boy" boyfriend, but he's only feeling this way because he cares.
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I completely agree...
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PurplePoof said:
sosa_lola, lots of guys could do worse and still be a sub-conscious misogynist. I don't know, I think he learned to resent women because every woman around him was more important and powerful than he was...and his "protectiveness" was his way of regaining some of that male "power"...
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Great point and very plausible - but I don't think it applies to Xander.

Yes, he did often feel inadequte because he was often sort of useless (Buffy: I don't need you to get hurt. I need you here.) since he didn't have any fighting skills or powers.

But, in 'Chosen" when Buffy asks him to kidnap Dawn and take her away, he's willing to do it for her even though he strongly opposes it. I tend to judge people in part on the level Buffy trusts them. This is when I started liking Spike, in S5, when it was clear Buffy trusted him with her most loved thing; her sister. Buffy, Willow, probobly even Giles trust Xander with their lives.

Anyway, I don't think he got a powertrip from being the "weakest link" of the gang. I know he was always self-concious about it.

This pretty much sums it up:Anya: No, the mature solution is for you to spend your whole life telling stupid, pointless jokes so that no one will notice that you are just a scared, insecure, little boy!

The way he acts in 'Entropy' is pretty harsh, though. There is a definite hint of misogynist there:

Xander: So you go out and bang the first body you can find? Dead or alive?
Anya: Where do you get off judging me?

Xander: I'm not joking now. You let that evil, soulless thing touch you. You wanted me to feel something? Congratulations, it worked. I look at you, and I feel sick, 'cause you had sex with that.
Spike: It's good enough for Buffy.
Xander: Shut up, and leave her out of...
[both Xander and Anya stare at Buffy]
Anya: Buffy?
Buffy Summers: Xander...
Xander: I don't wanna know this. I don't wanna know any of this.
[Xander leaves and Buffy follows after]
 
PurplePoof said:
sosa_lola, lots of guys could do worse and still be a sub-conscious misogynist. I don't know, I think he learned to resent women because every woman around him was more important and powerful than he was...and his "protectiveness" was his way of regaining some of that male "power"...
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I don't think it applies to Xander. Yeah, he's selfish and pretty useless compared to the others, but a misogynist? I think his protectiveness is purely that "protectiveness". With Buffy, he seemed to put her in a higher standard because she's his hero. Spike is beneath her, she deserves much better than Spike, I think this is why Xander was very upset and disappointed with Buffy for sleeping with Spike. He thinks she deserves a more stable "human" guy like Riley or Robin Wood, one who'll treat her better and won't turn against her when losing his chip or soul (that's not me talking, that's what I think Xander thinks.)

His reaction to Anya was purely jealousy and anger, and we all know how Xander reacts when angry. That's something he took after his father, I guess.
 
I find with my friends, I'm more protective of the ones I find weak and more or less naive and incapable of making good decisions without proper guidance.
 
PurplePoof said:
I find with my friends, I'm more protective of the ones I find weak and more or less naive and incapable of making good decisions without proper guidance.
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Even the strong friends with a level-head get to make bad decisions sometimes. Look at Willow in S6 for example, she was the most mature out of the three, and now that she got a taste of being bad, she couldn't help but sink further.

Buffy is capable of making bad choices, and having sex with Spike was one in Xander's mind. He never seemed to have a problem with Buffy being a couple with someone who seemed responsible and good natured.
 
PurplePoof said:
I always felt like Xander's looking out for Buffy was a little on the patronizing side...I actually found Xander to be a bit of a misogynist at times. It was like he never trusted Buffy and Willow to make their own decisions, or at least to make the RIGHT ones. I guess it was his way of being "important"...
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I never really thought of it that way. In the earlier seasons, Xander's protective nature and disagreements with Buffy and Willow usually came across as him being jealous or just plain stubborn, and in the later seasons, when the Scoobies were closer, it was more familial. Besides, Xander's attraction to physically dominant women (Slayers, demons, etc.) almost makes it seem like he wants a girl to be in charge.
 
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