Xander's Not Perfect

[Slycross]

But who is? Some of the choices he made I didnt agree or like. Same with the entire cast. Heres example: spike tried killing them number of times. Tried to rape buffy. Did betray them a few times. Angel brooded alot. Killed a good friend and a love of Giles by the way. Anya chose to go on a killing spree. Buffy went cold and pushed people away from her. Willow mind raped her lover and went world suicidal. Giles abandon buffy and the group. Xander was a jerk at times he had commitment issues and he thought with his heart which can be bad. Oz ran away from willow and not even get to make it work. So I could go on and on but I think u all understand that not just xander but all has issues, makes wrong choices, and not say the right things. But bc of this we can relate to individual characters. The only beef I have is where xander gets pummled bc of his flaws while everyone else gets free passes. No they all get free passes. Bc they r all good people who love each other and support each other and countless times saved people and the world in the show. So I root for them all despite their flaws. Oh and Im new here and want to say hello to you all :-D

 

[Joshua]

Except Xander's a hypocrite. Yes the cast is. But Xander is Captain Hypocrite.

*Hates Buffy's dated 2 vampires who had a evil past*

*dates ex-demon with a evil past, but then turned demon again and gave her a free past*

 

[ashleigh]

The trouble with Xander is that he was so busy being jealous that he doesn't take the time to appreciate what he already had.

He didn't like the fact that Buffy dated vampires - he hated that Buffy dated [/i]anyone[/i].

But despite his flaws, he does have his moments where you (well at least I) can't help but love him. His speech in 'Potential', for example. 'They'll never know how tough it is, Dawnie, to be the one who isn't chosen. To live so near to the spotlight and never step in it. But I know. I see more than anybody realizes because nobody's watching me. I saw you last night. I see you working here today. You're not special. You're extraordinary. '

So yeah, he deserves the flack that he gets...but the good things deserve recognition too. It's too bad these qualities don't emerge til season 4 onwards, after he's alread established his reputation as a douche. 🙁

 

[funsmiley]

ya know, i was on another forum the other day and people were dissing xander a bit as well.

I personally love xander.

The thing with xander is, he just gets too jealous and in an way hates it when things don't go the way he would of liked or wanted. He couldn't hack that buffy wasn't into him, he didn't like that she carried on dating angel even though he was vampire and he didn't like it when angel returned in season 3 and became part of the gang again.

But one thing i do think is that he is one of the strongest mentally in the gang, he has no powers, no supernatural anything (He lost an eye for gods sake!!) just his humour and love he gives his friends though we all know he sometimes has a funny way of showing it. He got through all 7 seasons being one of the characters who didn't have a massive breakdown ( except when he left anya at the alter, but i don't really count that as a breakdown.)

He stopped evil willow with his love and friendship. and that is xanders gift. his love for his friends.

 

[Robb Stark]

Xander is a very human character. One of the strong points of both shows is that all the main characters have flaws. None of them are totally perfect. Almost all of them (except maybe Fred) have done things that have gone against their moral compasses. Xander just...stands out more than most I suppose.

I have two pretty big issues with Xander. The first, like Dark Avenger said, is that he's a total hypocrite. He harps on Buffy all the time about dating Angel and Spike, and then goes out and gets together with Anya, a past vengeance demon who has killed just as many people as anyone Buffy has dated. Angel and Spike at least were without souls when they were killers. Anya wasn't. In fact, she kills a house full of frat guys in S7 and Xander just sweeps it under the rug.

The second is the way he acts at the end of S2. He doesn't tell Buffy that Willow is attempting to restore Angel's soul again, purely out of jealousy. That's a pretty major screw up. If I were Buffy and had found that out, I would have knocked him out cold.

Now, that being said, he's still a great character, with a lot of positive attributes. He's just, like all of us, human.

 

[Jodast]

[MENTION=11975]Always Bangel[/MENTION] pretty much made my point for me, because great minds think alike yet fools seldom differ. The jury's still out on which we may be...Got the verdict in. Not good news for us, AB. Sorry 😀

One of the things Joss and his writing teams do in all of their shows is give many of the characters shades of grey. No joke coming, I swear. They are likeable for the most part but they are fallible. They make decisions or judgements which seem questionable, plain wrong or immoral and those idiosyncrasies are what flesh out not only the characters but the shows they appear on. Xander's hypocrisy regarding Buffy's lovelife made for both amusing and tense moents in the show. Had he just gone along with it and never passed judgement, the drama wouldn't have been there but neither would the comedy and we sure as hell wouldn't be talking about his actions at the end of season 2 almost 15 years after they originally happened.

Xander's gift within the Scoobies is to be the most human and with that comes the most human of weaknesses; jealousy, infidelity and being Dracula's butt monkey 🙂

 

[sosa lola]

It's too bad these qualities don't emerge til season 4 onwards, after he's alread established his reputation as a douche. 🙁

Aww, Xander did have a lot of good qualities before S4. For example, his bravery and loyalty were established since episode one when Jesse was kidnapped. Xander had just learned about vampires and it didn't faze him, he had to follow Buffy and rescue his friend. That incident with Jesse was what had shaped his views on vampires.

 

[dexeded]

Xander had just learned about vampires and it didn't faze him, he had to follow Buffy and rescue his friend. That incident with Jesse was what had shaped his views on vampires.

This has always been my headcanon (unless it is actually canon?), and I wish it had been elaborated on more. Early season Xander would get more sympathy from me if they'd talked about the Jesse incident.

 

[sosa lola]

This has always been my headcanon (unless it is actually canon?), and I wish it had been elaborated on more. Early season Xander would get more sympathy from me if they'd talked about the Jesse incident.

Do you read S9? 'Cause Xander mentions Jesse and how much it had scarred him killing his best friend.

 

[Robb Stark]

This has always been my headcanon (unless it is actually canon?), and I wish it had been elaborated on more. Early season Xander would get more sympathy from me if they'd talked about the Jesse incident.

I wish they'd brought Jesse up more too. I'm just getting into the comics now, so I can't really comment on whatever's happening on that front, but Xander's almost total lack of feeling or even attention to his best friend dying was always a bit of a plot hole. Don't get me wrong, it's a small amount of suspension of disbelief that I'm more than fine with, but there was absolutely no reason, none at all, for Xander to go so ballistic on Angel so often in the first few seasons beyond simple jealously (which is how I always read it). But I like the idea of Jesse's death affecting Xander a lot and his view on vampires, and more specifically, Angel (which would make sense).

 

[dexeded]

Do you read S9? 'Cause Xander mentions Jesse and how much it had scarred him killing his best friend.

I read about S9, so I know the general outline... but no, I don't read it. So, cool! They do make it canon. Ten, fifteen years too late, but still.

 

[Ripper666]

The trouble with Xander is that he was so busy being jealous that he doesn't take the time to appreciate what he already had.

Yeah maybe but hey, there are people in the world who are really more jealous. We have to life with that. It just means he really care for Buffy/Willow. 😉

Except Xander's a hypocrite. Yes the cast is. But Xander is Captain Hypocrite.

Well I disagree. In my eyes Xander is not a hypocrite, he has a good heart but he has his weak moments too. He is the only one without superpowers of course he want to be more than "just a normal guy". I think Xander represents most of the human-fears and dark sides. I mean Willow represented the abuse of power, Xander shows the abysses of humanity. Not because he is a bad guy just because Joss wanted to point with the finger at these things to show us: Not this way. He is also the character who can fix everything with words and real sorrow, another message from Joss.

 

[dexeded]

Well I disagree. In my eyes Xander is not a hypocrite, he has a good heart but he has his weak moments too. He is the only one without superpowers of course he want to be more than "just a normal guy". I think Xander represents most of the human-fears and dark sides. I mean Willow represented the abuse of power, Xander shows the abysses of humanity. Not because he is a bad guy just because Joss wanted to point with the finger at these things to show us: Not this way. He is also the character who can fix everything with words and real sorrow, another message from Joss.

It's all very well to say that Xander has his strong points and weak points (which I agree with), but you cannot deny that Xander is a hypocrite to the core. He dislikes Spike and Angel because they are demons/vampires/not human, but still falls for Anya (who has less morals than Angel and, arguably, Spike), even wanting to marry her. Not to mention him excusing her for all her crimes in Selfless. No doubt love is blind, but this also proves how much of a hypcocrite he is.

 

[Ripper666]

but you cannot deny that Xander is a hypocrite to the core. He dislikes Spike and Angel because they are demons/vampires/not human

Well if my best friend would have two bloodsucking-boyfriends who have killed thousand innocent humans, I think I would try to protect her before them too. 😉

 

[Robb Stark]

Well if my best friend would have two bloodsucking-boyfriends who have killed thousand innocent humans, I think I would try to protect her before them too. 😉

No doubt, it would be pretty tough for Xander to accept Angel, especially considering that he's 17, got a huge crush on Buffy at that point and just had one of his best friends killed by a vampire. I don't think anyone is...um...demonizing him for that.

But as time passes, and it becomes very, very clear that Angel is indeed a hero, and Xander continues to despise and detest Angel while interacting with Anya...well, THAT is hypocritical. Very much so. Angel, or Buffy, didn't even begin to deserve that.

I understand as well why Xander hated Spike and Buffy together. He had no soul, unlike Angel, and the argument could very well be made that Spike was only making nice because of the chip in his head. Fair enough. But when Spike returns in S7, with a soul, and then Anya proceeds to slaughter a frat house on a whim, and Xander still is involved with her while hating Spike? Well, come on. It doesn't make him a "bad" character, because he's not (he's a great character), but that does make him pretty hypocritical. Especially with the Angel example.

 

[Icarium]

Not any more hypocritical than all the rest of the Scoobies who at worst treated Anya as mildly annoying while at the same time condemning say Faith and Warren, who while undoubtedly deserving of plenty of blame and contempt, were small fry compared to Anya and her thousands of murders. Then comes the time when Anya gets back to killing and everyone is (moronically) shocked that the sociopath is at it again. Wow, that was really shocking - a vengeance demon murdering someone, next thing you know you will shocked when Giles drinks tea, people...

 

[dexeded]

Well if my best friend would have two bloodsucking-boyfriends who have killed thousand innocent humans, I think I would try to protect her before them too. 😉

That is true, but my point is not that he is wrong (though I think he was, at least in soul!Angel's case), but that he is hypocritical. That means he does not practise what he preaches--worse, does the very thing he condemns.

---------- Post added at 04:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Of course, I do agree with Icarium too... except Anya was always intended to be and treated as comic relief by the characters and the writers. She was only ever taken seriously in The Wish, The Body, and Selfless. So a measure of suspension of disbelief is clearly needed for that. On the other hand, Faith's and Warren's crimes are always taken seriously (as well as Angel's and Spike's), therefore we treat them seriously. It's far from a perfect system, but it is only system that makes sense.

 

[The Scourge]

I hate how Xander gets crucified for the things he's done, more-so than any other character.

If Xander looked like Spike or Angel I can guarantee that this wouldn't be happening.

 

[dexeded]

I hate how Xander gets crucified for the things he's done, more-so than any other character.

If Xander looked like Spike or Angel I can guarantee that this wouldn't be happening.

I can only speak for myself, but that's certainly not the case for me. I don't care how attractive he would be; he was an absolute ass in high school. If he were a vamp, that would be a different story, since he automatically have next to no morals, and that is the true difference. (I wouldn't 'crucify' vamp!Xander for his mistakes, but I still wouldn't like him. High school version, I mean.)

 

[ashleigh]

I hate how Xander gets crucified for the things he's done, more-so than any other character.

If Xander looked like Spike or Angel I can guarantee that this wouldn't be happening.

To be honest, i think Nick looks as good as those two. He's waaaay too attractive to be playing someone like Xander.