Well i have once gotten into another argument as to who is top dog show that promotes feminism . As we all obviously know it is Buffy who holds the title of this but recently i have gotten into an argument about Xena and Buffy. Honestly ive never seen the show so i would like for someone to tell me what Xena is about and if it actually even holds a candle to Buffy as far as its writing.
Xena the Warrior Princess
- Thread starter orpheusxi
- Start date
ILLYRIAN
Druish Pervonian Wizard
Both shows depict a female in control, both shows depict the triumph of good over evil. Both shows lasted for seven seasons.
As for feminism, there doesn't appear to be any specific rules, as many feminists have their own beliefs.
Is it women being as good and treated as equals to men, is it women being better than men ?.
As for the quality of the writing of each show, try and find some-one who isn't biased.
I liked both shows, as my fanfic indicates. The Buffy show was more aligned with the supernatural content where-as the Xena show was aligned with the mythological content.
To say that they were about different issues and therefore had a different style of writing would be a fair comment, be a bit like comparing carob and cocoa.
As for feminism, there doesn't appear to be any specific rules, as many feminists have their own beliefs.
Is it women being as good and treated as equals to men, is it women being better than men ?.
As for the quality of the writing of each show, try and find some-one who isn't biased.
I liked both shows, as my fanfic indicates. The Buffy show was more aligned with the supernatural content where-as the Xena show was aligned with the mythological content.
To say that they were about different issues and therefore had a different style of writing would be a fair comment, be a bit like comparing carob and cocoa.
Jade In The Sky
Away
Well, Xena's one of my friends' favourite shows she has watched it over and over again ( and talked about it as well ) 😀 Recently I also watched some episodes in order to compare. All that Illyrian said is true, esp about the Greek mythology. The writing isn't bad. I think a plus can be the setting b/c it is filmed in New Zealand, always in the open. I somehow prefer it to the typical Holliwood set. Though seeing a semetery is so emblematic now that I start enjoying the set of Buffy 😀 The main characters are fewer than Buffy's - there are Xena, her friend Gabriel who is her light in the her dark periods, their funny friend Jasper and of course some bad guys. Here IMO Buffy beats her cause I think the more the characters, the more possibilites of complexed storylines and our writers DO take advantage of those possibilities.
But Xena didn't caught me. I couldn't relate at all to the situations or sympathize to the characters. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the director's way of filming I don't like - it's really cool to see the meadows and the rocks,etc. but I adore the closeups and the noir style in Buffy. The colours. And I love the way the emotions of Buffy's characters transfer in me. 🙂
In order to visualize it, here are some photos of Xena and Gabrielle:
But Xena didn't caught me. I couldn't relate at all to the situations or sympathize to the characters. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the director's way of filming I don't like - it's really cool to see the meadows and the rocks,etc. but I adore the closeups and the noir style in Buffy. The colours. And I love the way the emotions of Buffy's characters transfer in me. 🙂
In order to visualize it, here are some photos of Xena and Gabrielle:
Xin Rong
Lol his name is jockster
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
I'm a fan of both shows.
I watched Xena when it was on TV, but I think it was in reruns even then and I didn't see it straight-through and in order like I saw Buffy, so my memory is fuzzy. I remember that Xena was often on during the weekends. My mom didn't like it, so I watched it with my dad.
Just as Xena is a descendant of Wonder Woman, Buffy is a descendant of Xena. I do not think a TV series about a rather girly super hero would have been greenlit had not Xena's huge fanbase proven that the concept of a female super hero was profitable. In terms of feminism, then, I think Buffy "wins," but only because Buffy was able to take the female super hero to the next level. Xena, you see, was a spin-off of Hercules. For all intents and purposes, she was the female version of Hercules. She was a female warlord who copied her male contemporaries in personality, fighting style, and leadership style. Xena was a strong woman, but she lived in a man's world and she played by man's rules. Xena was a warrior who also happened to be a woman. Conversely, Buffy was a woman who happened to be a warrior. She did not copy her male contemporaries but, rather, reflected her own female contemporaries in personality, leadership style, and fighting style. I don't think Buffy, which I believe began to be popular at around the time that Xena went off the air, would have been possible had Xena not come first.
Just because I think Buffy reflects feminism that is strong because it is not based on making women like men does not mean that I think Xena is somehow lacking in importance as a feminist text. The two characters/shows have a lot in common: the characters have special callings and abilities; the characters fight fantasy creatures and characters that are usually metaphorical in nature; the characters struggle with good and evil internally and externally; the characters lead armies; the characters avert apocalypse; the characters face Heaven and Hell; the characters form close, familial bonds with blood kin and trusted, quirky friends alike; the characters deal with death and resurrection; the characters have foils (Faith and Callisto); and, yes, the characters deal with romance. In fact, they both have a penchant for redeemable evil-turned-good supernatural guys who wield swords and wear leather. The list goes on and on. Both shows feature funny, self-reflexive and culturally aware dialogue. In some ways, Xena surpasses Buffy as a feminist text. For example, the title character deals more directly with issues of motherhood. Also, the Tara/Willow connection probably owes a great deal to the lesbian undercurrents first broached in Xena. There is no denying that both shows are successful and meaningful feminist texts.
There is a lot to compare and contrast. In my view, though, Buffy is clearly a descendant of Xena.
I watched Xena when it was on TV, but I think it was in reruns even then and I didn't see it straight-through and in order like I saw Buffy, so my memory is fuzzy. I remember that Xena was often on during the weekends. My mom didn't like it, so I watched it with my dad.
Just as Xena is a descendant of Wonder Woman, Buffy is a descendant of Xena. I do not think a TV series about a rather girly super hero would have been greenlit had not Xena's huge fanbase proven that the concept of a female super hero was profitable. In terms of feminism, then, I think Buffy "wins," but only because Buffy was able to take the female super hero to the next level. Xena, you see, was a spin-off of Hercules. For all intents and purposes, she was the female version of Hercules. She was a female warlord who copied her male contemporaries in personality, fighting style, and leadership style. Xena was a strong woman, but she lived in a man's world and she played by man's rules. Xena was a warrior who also happened to be a woman. Conversely, Buffy was a woman who happened to be a warrior. She did not copy her male contemporaries but, rather, reflected her own female contemporaries in personality, leadership style, and fighting style. I don't think Buffy, which I believe began to be popular at around the time that Xena went off the air, would have been possible had Xena not come first.
Just because I think Buffy reflects feminism that is strong because it is not based on making women like men does not mean that I think Xena is somehow lacking in importance as a feminist text. The two characters/shows have a lot in common: the characters have special callings and abilities; the characters fight fantasy creatures and characters that are usually metaphorical in nature; the characters struggle with good and evil internally and externally; the characters lead armies; the characters avert apocalypse; the characters face Heaven and Hell; the characters form close, familial bonds with blood kin and trusted, quirky friends alike; the characters deal with death and resurrection; the characters have foils (Faith and Callisto); and, yes, the characters deal with romance. In fact, they both have a penchant for redeemable evil-turned-good supernatural guys who wield swords and wear leather. The list goes on and on. Both shows feature funny, self-reflexive and culturally aware dialogue. In some ways, Xena surpasses Buffy as a feminist text. For example, the title character deals more directly with issues of motherhood. Also, the Tara/Willow connection probably owes a great deal to the lesbian undercurrents first broached in Xena. There is no denying that both shows are successful and meaningful feminist texts.
There is a lot to compare and contrast. In my view, though, Buffy is clearly a descendant of Xena.
JollyApe
None for you!
I recently had a very similar discussion on a Xena board.
And like stated above, they promote two very different aspects of feminism.
Personally I've always loved the show of Buffy the Vampire Slayer over Xena Warrior Princess, but at the same time I prefer the characters of Xena and Gabrielle over any of the BtVS ones.
I personally feel more comfortable with the type of feminism that Xena promotes, but at the same time I love what Buffy as done. IMHO BtVS still holds onto the concept of gender though it promotes equality. Xena on the other hand does not as actively promote equality, but on the other hand it constantly pokes holes in the gender concept.
Buffy is more realistic and provides a good sense of female empowerment. Xena on the other hand provides rather interesting alternatives to Buffy's more "mainstream" norms. Just look at their (XWP's) take on the "family unit" in season 5 as an example.
Buffy is more of the textbook feminism whereas Xena (I've said it before and I'll say it again) probably falls more into the Queer Theory category.
And like stated above, they promote two very different aspects of feminism.
Personally I've always loved the show of Buffy the Vampire Slayer over Xena Warrior Princess, but at the same time I prefer the characters of Xena and Gabrielle over any of the BtVS ones.
I personally feel more comfortable with the type of feminism that Xena promotes, but at the same time I love what Buffy as done. IMHO BtVS still holds onto the concept of gender though it promotes equality. Xena on the other hand does not as actively promote equality, but on the other hand it constantly pokes holes in the gender concept.
Buffy is more realistic and provides a good sense of female empowerment. Xena on the other hand provides rather interesting alternatives to Buffy's more "mainstream" norms. Just look at their (XWP's) take on the "family unit" in season 5 as an example.
Buffy is more of the textbook feminism whereas Xena (I've said it before and I'll say it again) probably falls more into the Queer Theory category.
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
I'm re-watching Xena as we speak. The show was just getting its legs under it in the first season. But the second season? So far, it's awesome. Even the Bacchus episode, which was campy and fun but not big with the production values, was interesting for its lesbian subtext. Even more interesting for excellent character development all around was Return of Calisto. I am pretty convinced that Calisto was the inspiration for Faith.
This isn't the most intelligent ramble. I guess the point is that Xena and Buffy are definitely in the same vein. They're both excellent. The minor characters are complex and funny. The subtext is edgy. The themes and dialogue are amusing and clever. I'm glad I don't have to choose just one show to love!
This isn't the most intelligent ramble. I guess the point is that Xena and Buffy are definitely in the same vein. They're both excellent. The minor characters are complex and funny. The subtext is edgy. The themes and dialogue are amusing and clever. I'm glad I don't have to choose just one show to love!