"*****y" Buffy

S

sugarkisses_xx

Vampire Slayer
Joined
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Canada :D
The less pleasant attitude of our dear, dear slayer in Season Seven made alot of people I know dislike the character Buffy. Then, I go around and read 'fics where she's made out to be the complete and total essence of a *****, so I'm wondering, what do you guys think?

I honestly think that it wasn't Buffy's fault. She had SO much going on in Season Seven, that she couldn't help but be the way that she was. She knew this was the final apocalypse, she knew people were going to die, and she had to make them realise it.

I don't even think she purposely shut herself off from her friends. They all had their own things going on their lives, and Buffy needed to be the slayer first throughout the ending battle -- Buffy second.

Spike was her allie, and I loved to see that, I think that was why she was so betrayed by Giles. She had feelings towards Spike, and he was always there for her -- plus, Giles going behind her back and doing something, her cold shoulder to him certainly wasn't her fault.

I honestly don't get why people consider her to be SO horrendous. I mean, she had alot going on. . . and she was nice to most people for the most part. Even Faith and Buffy had their moments. . .

I don't know, I guess I started this 'cause I wanted to see how many people hated her character throughout the season.
 
I didn't hate her..I felt sorry for her...she led these people for Seven years and she gets turned on. She was right in trusting her instincts and shouldn't have been betrayed and abandoned for doing what she did very well to keep them alive for the previous seven years.
 
Slayer first, Buffy Second makes her a machine. They might as well have programmed the Buffybot with Command and Conquer scenarios, set it to "b1tch" and asked it to lead them into battle. It's a bleak, bleak season that sends the message "To win you must sacrifice who you are." Who, not What she was has kept her alive for 7 years, with a few intermissions. Wasn't the whole point of Restless that Buffy's strength is her heart? She kept whining about how her friends were turning on her... from where I was standing, it looked awfully like the other way around. "Buffy we have advice, we being the friends that have sacrificed normal lives, lovers and eyes for you" "Shut Up flunkies. Me Buffy. Me lead. You dare to disagree? WITH ME? I'm trying to wage a war on terror, you unpatriotic b*stards..."

Faith and Buffy had a moment, where Faith told Buffy she respected her, and Buffy said... em... well, she basically said "Yeah, I never get sick of hearing how much I totally rock. Don't forget about that evil thing, cause I certainly won't let it drop. For a second. Ever. We aren't sleeping together, so you don't get that exemption like vampires do."
 
I don't think it was Buffy's fault she became that way.. I understand that because of all the had gone through and was going through, she had to be this way.. But, the thing about her having to shut everything off because that's the only way to win this last big battle, that's not true. Like Jill_Valentine said, Buffy's friends and her feelings about them, and the fact that she has/had a life besides from being a slayer, was what made her such a great slayer. That's what she tells Kendra after their first meeting, and that's what Buffy realizes over and over again through the show.. It's really really depressing that it doesn't end that way (I get sad just writing about this)..
 
Buffy lost her happy "buzz" in season seven due to alot of pressure which wasn;t her fault at all but I think it was all leading up to the potential's choosing Faith over her and Spike giving her "faith" again if you excuse the irony! lol
 
I never disliked her attitude in season 7. You have to look at all she had gone thru in her life as a slayer. The weight of the world rested on her shoulders, along with the lives of the people that she loved. She sacrificed her life for Dawn's then was ripped from heaven by those who thought she was being tortured in a hell dimension. To have to re-adjust to life here and then be faced with the fact her world was going to be usurped by Uber Vamps that wanted to reclaim the earth and turn it into a literal Hell. I feel like her attitude was justly deserved considering that everyone always relied on her to save them and that the Scoobies looked upon her as their leader and the saviour of Sunnydale. With all that Buffy had endured in her years of being a Slayer along with being the "oldest living" Slayer , she has changed. There were "potential" slayers that obviously weren't up for their calling, Willow being uncomfortable with her new found powers, Giles reluctance to see that his Slayer had grown up into a strong woman that had a mind of her own and knew what she must do to save them all. Faith with her attitude (she may be a slayer but she will always be second to B). Buffy had a lot of changing experiences and her final acceptance as a slayer showed that she was truly deserving of her title and hopefully now able to continue with her life and be ready to make cookies.
 
P
ProphecyGirl
OMG that was perfect. Thank you so much for saying that. If I could give you rep twice I would.
SlayersDestiny said:
I never disliked her attitude in season 7. You have to look at all she had gone thru in her life as a slayer. The weight of the world rested on her shoulders, along with the lives of the people that she loved. She sacrificed her life for Dawn's then was ripped from heaven by those who thought she was being tortured in a hell dimension. To have to re-adjust to life here and then be faced with the fact her world was going to be usurped by Uber Vamps that wanted to reclaim the earth and turn it into a literal Hell. I feel like her attitude was justly deserved considering that everyone always relied on her to save them and that the Scoobies looked upon her as their leader and the saviour of Sunnydale. With all that Buffy had endured in her years of being a Slayer along with being the "oldest living" Slayer , she has changed. There were "potential" slayers that obviously weren't up for their calling, Willow being uncomfortable with her new found powers, Giles reluctance to see that his Slayer had grown up into a strong woman that had a mind of her own and knew what she must do to save them all. Faith with her attitude (she may be a slayer but she will always be second to B). Buffy had a lot of changing experiences and her final acceptance as a slayer showed that she was truly deserving of her title and hopefully now able to continue with her life and be ready to make cookies.
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Purely. Amazing. Couldn't have said it better. If I could add to your rep. I would, but due to some thieving on my part, I cannot. Don't ask.
 
"Buffy had a lot of changing experiences and her final acceptance as a slayer showed that she was truly deserving of her title and hopefully now able to continue with her life and be ready to make cookies."

No. Her final acceptance that "Slayer" was the most important part of her title meant that she surrendered her humanity. She berated both Kendra and Faith for losing themselves to their calling, and then she did exactly that. She cut herself off from her friends completely, and like Eponinethen said "the fact that she has/had a life besides from being a slayer, was what made her such a great slayer". Her Slayerness finally won, it became all she was. That the writers built in such a miserable theme breaks my heart... what was the point of the entire previous six seasons, if it wasn't no matter what, your humanity matters.

Buffy, by the end of season 7, was useful. Somebody you'd like to have on your side in a fight. But she's not somebody you'd like to know. She's a living weapon... After all she's given up, didn't she deserve to be more?

We the audience didn't root for Buffy like we did because she was a fierce warrior leader. We did it because she was a good person facing terrible things, doing a job nobody should have to do, and against all the odds she held on to who she was. How was S7 Buffy any different from The Initiative?
 
In season 6, after having seen Anya and Spike in the magic box, and after Xander's been telling Buffy off for sleeping with Spike/not telling Xander about it.. Buffy says something to Xander, like "What I do with my personal life is none of your business", and Xander says "It used to be".. I think that's a really sad moment, not that we hadn't already noticed that they drifted apart, but it's just so obvious how far apart they are.. They work together but they aren't friends anymore. In the end of s6 they sort of tell eachother they've missed eachother and they're friends again.. But not really. Sure, we see Xander, Buffy and Willow talk to eachother sometimes in the 7th season.. And in the last episode of course.. But not for real. The whole last season is so depressing in that way, they lost that thing, that was so important for the show, the friendship between Buffy, Willow and Xander was what really mattered, until the end, when that changed..
 
I cannot completely agree with you. Yes, I agree that Buffy had allowed her role of "Slayer" to get the best of her. It was very evident in episodes like "Selfless", "Get Bring on the Night", "Potential", "Get It Done", "Storyteller", "Dirty Girls" and "Empty Places".

The "General von Summers" persona really got out of hand by "Get It Done". And it's interesting that this happened after Giles' rant in "First Date" that no one was taking the First Evil's threat seriously. And she had acquired this persona from impersonating the Watcher Council's style of authority. Worse, Giles never really taught her how to be a leader, only a killing machine.

Eventually, it took the Scoobies and the Potentials' rejection of her at the end of "Empty Places", to make her aware of her mistakes. Granted, she had immediately jumped back to issuing orders to them, after Faith was injured in "Touched", but she seemed willing to forgive them for the rejection. And she finally was able to bond with Faith. And in "Chosen", instead of ordering the others to follow her into the Hellmouth, she laid out her plans and asked for their help. More importantly, in the much reviled "cookie dough" speech, she told Angel that she needed to find out who the real Buffy Summers was, before she got romantically involved in a serious way (I refuse to acknowledge that silly AtS Season 5 episode, "The Girl in Question". I can't help but feel that Whedon was getting back at SMG for failing to appear in an ANGEL episode).

I don't think that Buffy had completely rejected her humanity in the end. In fact, I think she had begun to re-embrace it.
 
LadyLavinia said:
I don't think that Buffy had completely rejected her humanity in the end. In fact, I think she had begun to re-embrace it.
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Yes, in the last episode she does that.. But that's what always happens in the season finale, the four of them together. But that didn't feel real to me in Chosen, sure, they didn't fight or anything, they where friend, sort of. But I don't feel they were really friends and I don't feel Buffy really re-embraced her humanity in the end. I guess the point of it should be that Buffy started to find her self now, the slayer-part and the Buffy-part.. But I just felt she was more lost than ever..
 
eponinethen said:
Yes, in the last episode she does that.. But that's what always happens in the season finale, the four of them together. But that didn't feel real to me in Chosen, sure, they didn't fight or anything, they where friend, sort of. But I don't feel they were really friends and I don't feel Buffy really re-embraced her humanity in the end. I guess the point of it should be that Buffy started to find her self now, the slayer-part and the Buffy-part.. But I just felt she was more lost than ever..
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I don't think that Buffy re-embracing her humanity was all about her friendship with the Scoobies. I had never expected them to remain close forever. As they got older, naturally it was harder to remain as close as they were during high school. I wasn't that surprised when Andrew revealed that the Scoobies had each traveled to the far corners of the Earth.

I believe that for Buffy, re-embracing her humanity in "Chosen" was about taking the opportunity to find the real her, behind the facade of Slayer, Scooby member, or girlfriend. It was all about taking the time to learn about her true self, behind the roles.
 
I touched on this briefly in the S7 continuity thread, but want to get into more detail here.

People have complained that Buffy's behavior in Season 7 is out-of-character. It's not; it is just at this moment in time that we see some of the more less-than-pleasant aspects of Buffy's psyche and personality come to the fore. There's always been an aura of superiority in Buffy's personality, but we only see it really manifest itself in Season 7. She becomes so caught up in being the Slayer that she loses who she is as a person. I don't think she is even consciously aware that it's happening, and it's not till she gets called on her dictatorial behavior in Empty Places (something that should have happened A LOT SOONER) that things start to change. Sure, she's take-charge-Buffy in Chosen, but she's not dictator Buffy any longer.

Buffy's reliance on Spike to the exclusion of everyone else is really not that out-of-character, nor should it be very surprising, as he's the one thing/person in her life that was there for her when she needed someone the most (Season 6). She relied on Spike to help her feel alive, but never really dealt with WHY she needed Spike to help her feel alive, and I don't think she does much reflecting in Season 7, either, which, I think, contributes to her becoming all dictatorial.

It's also not all that surprising that Buffy's friends are no longer as close to her as they were. Season 6 really was the divergent point in the characters' lives, and while the end of Season 6 brought them back together, I would have been incredibly surprised had things gone back to the way they were in the past. Things happened to each of the characters that caused them to grow apart, things that ultimately prevent them from recapturing the depth of friendship they once shared. Chosen is, like the last few moments of Grave, a chance for the characters to reconnect, but, like Grave, there is no way that their friendship could ever be as strong as it once was. Even if the group had stayed together past Chosen, there is no doubt in my mind that they eventually would have gone their separate ways, though it's a toss up as to who would have left first.
 
People have complained that Buffy's behavior in Season 7 is out-of-character. It's not; it is just at this moment in time that we see some of the more less-than-pleasant aspects of Buffy's psyche and personality come to the fore. There's always been an aura of superiority in Buffy's personality, but we only see it really manifest itself in Season 7. She becomes so caught up in being the Slayer that she loses who she is as a person.

Actually, we've seen plenty of examples of Buffy's less-than-pleasant traits over the years - especially since Season 2. This superiority of Buffy's touches on a theme that has been around on the show for years. Namely authority figures. Instead of clashing with authority figures, Buffy becomes one in S7. We're seeing authority figures, as always, from her point-of-view. But we're seeing this topic from an adult Buffy POV.
 
Well it might have had something to do with the fact that she was training a sniveling, whining, no-good so-called army of wimps - jeez that'd turn me into an uber-genral too.

Buffy had to be strong not only for the Scoobs..but for all of those so-called Potentials, which by the way, didn't seem to have much potential at all until Buffy whipped them into shape.
 
C
Cordelia
[No message]
LadyLavinia said:
People have complained that Buffy's behavior in Season 7 is out-of-character. It's not; it is just at this moment in time that we see some of the more less-than-pleasant aspects of Buffy's psyche and personality come to the fore. There's always been an aura of superiority in Buffy's personality, but we only see it really manifest itself in Season 7. She becomes so caught up in being the Slayer that she loses who she is as a person.

Actually, we've seen plenty of examples of Buffy's less-than-pleasant traits over the years - especially since Season 2. This superiority of Buffy's touches on a theme that has been around on the show for years. Namely authority figures. Instead of clashing with authority figures, Buffy becomes one in S7. We're seeing authority figures, as always, from her point-of-view. But we're seeing this topic from an adult Buffy POV.
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I know we've seen prior evidence of Buffy's less-than-pleasant traits, but my point was that S7 is when they really start to come to the fore and she lets them overshadow the rest of her personality. BTW, good point about the authority figure thing. I hadn't caught on to it, but now that you've mentioned it I can see exactly what you're talking about.
 
Buffy had to be strong not only for the Scoobs..but for all of those so-called Potentials, which by the way, didn't seem to have much potential at all until Buffy whipped them into shape.


Of course they were frightened. Aside from Kennedy, who was the only one who had any experience being trained to fight the supernatural evil, they were all inexperienced. Buffy had freaked out when she first began her training. And considering they were dragged against their will by Giles and Buffy into her "Potential" army and her martinet persona, I'm not surprised that they ended up rebelling against her. Buffy did the same to the Watcher's Council, when they had treated her like a tool, years earlier.
 
I wanted to hold off commenting on this thread until I'd gotten around to watching season 7 again and I'm now about half way through. But, I think that Buffy, aside from her insistance on killing Anya in Selfless, is still very much like the Buffy of old, in fact more so than through season 6, up until Bring On The Night. I also think that scenes in Lessons, Beneath You, Same Time Same Place, Him, CWDP show a real warmth to the relationships between the scoobs, particularly Buffy and Xander. A warmth that hadn't been as apparent for quite some time.

It is after getting her butt kicked by the Turok-Han in Bring On The Night that we see her sitting alone in the dark while the scoobies and first batch of potentials are in the dining room talking about how they didn't know what to do or how they could beat this new threat. We hear stuff like Willow, "What do we do if she can't fight, if she can't beat this thing?" and Giles, "We could make plans as we always do, but the truth is, Buffy was our plan. There is no back up." and "The First predates everything we've ever known, or can know. It's everywhere. It's pure. I don't know if we can fight it."

I think Buffy decides at this point, particularly with Giles being unsure, he usually provides the strong lead, that the group needs someone to make them believe that they can stand against The First. She decides that the time for her to be a 'lone' warrior aided by her pals is over. She knows that The First is going to pose a serious threat to the future of the world from having just gotten a battering from only one of its agents and they are going to have to create an army of potentials and scoobs. And, what does every army need - a general. Someone to lead strongly, take actions and give speeches to inspire. Scared little girls with defeatist attitudes and no direction are useless soldiers. They need to believe that victory is achievable and that they can become threats, themselves, to The First. She believes that taking on a role as 'general' of their 'army' is what is necessary. We then see her giving the whining potentials their 'first lesson' by taking out the Turok-Han in thunderdome.

I think that this is a side of Buffy that we have never seen before and I also think that it is a role that she is not entirely comfortable with. But, she thinks it's necessary. Does she go too far with it? Maybe, I'll have to get back to you on that.
 
The only time I truly disliked Buffy was near the end of 'Fool for Love'. Even the fiorst time i saw it, i wasn't much of a Spike fan but...that was cruel, and unjustified. [for those who don't know what I mean - where buffy says she'd never dance with Spike, he's beneather he]. I didn't mind her through season 7 cos whilest she seemed a little full on, who else could do her job. Faith had the strength but not the experience. Giles could point and say go over there and fight. Willow wouldn't use her power, and xander lost an eyes trying to help. Who was left. Until they were all unlocked Buffy was it, and that puts an enourmous pressure on a person. Especailly in a life/death kind of situation. I'd probably have f=gone the same way to be honest. An army doesn't need a freind to lead it, it needs a leader.
 
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