Kana
Soulless human
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,305
Ok so I couldn't think of an effective title but this the line is obviously recognisable from the episode Innocence whereby Angel lost his soul and returned to his vampiric family.
He utters those infamous words to Drusilla and this is really the point of my thread. I wanted to discuss the relationship between Drusilla and Angel(us)
I'm going to post some questions about the rather unique relationship between Angel (either soulled or soulless) and Drusilla.
My interest stems from the fact that Angel is my favourite character and I find Drusilla fascinating.
I'll also mention that in this thread I will mention Spike but only in relation to Dru and Angel. I'm not attempting to incite and Angel vs Spike thread and anyone who knows me, know that I rarely go in for such threads.
Anyway, here we go...
How do you think Dru felt about Angelus?
How do think Angelus felt about Dru?
Why do you think Dru continued to sleeep with Angelus in the 1800s and flirted so openly with him in 1998 when she was with Spike?
Now I'm aware of the blurring lines that barely divide Angel and Angelus but to extend the conversation (because I believe Angel having a soul or not having a soul clearly affects his relationships), how do think Dru felt about Angel?
And vice versa, how do think Angel felt about Drusilla?
__________________________________________________ _______________
How do you think Dru felt about Angelus?
Well considering sire/childe relationships aren't particularly dipicted as all that transcendent (apparently there is such a thing as a one bite stand), I'll say that Dru felt affection for her sire. She certainly seems drawn to him openly flirts with him or sleeps with him when he's around. I don't think this is exclusive to Angelus though. I believe her vampiric family mean a lot to her. She talks affectionately about her 'grandmum' Darla, eagerly wanting her to meet William and she goes through a lot of effort to prepare for her 'giving birth' to her as well. She often refers to Angelus as Daddy and talks about giving birth to William as well.
How do think Angelus felt about Dru?
I think he considers her his masterpiece, a constant reminder of the sadism that drives Angelus.
Quote:
Killing is so merciful at the end, isn't it? The pain has ended.
The consistent picture painted is that he didn't really care about Drusilla. He liked having her around but by the time she wanted to sire William, he seemed to have lost interest and even suggests that Dru finds someone else. When she does, this doesn't stop him from exercising his particular brand of sadism upon William, by taking away the one thing that gave him meaning in his unlife.
He continues this in 1998. His affections seem less focused on Dru and more focused on hurting Spike.
I'd say the only person Angelus indulged was Darla and Angel admitted that even she didn't make him happy. If you consider that Dru was able to sense that Angelus was more preoccupied with Darla and Angel admitted that he didn't love Darla, (which is consistent with the fact that he'd happily give her up to save himself) then it's fair to say that Angelus cared even less for Dru, but didn't mind using her as a tool for his sadistic mind games with Spike.
Why do you think Dru continued to sleep with Angelus in the 1800s and flirted so openly with him in 1998 when she was with Spike?
This is the question that gave me the most hassle. If I'm honest, I'm not really sure, but the possibilities are:
She's simply insane.
I don't really like this explanation because I think Dru is more complex than that. She's also a lot more deliberate in her actions than she appears IMO.
She didn't really love Spike
Angel suggested this in Lover's Walk. I'm not sure if he really believed this or if he was just scoring a cheap shot with Spike. I suppose we could reason that Dru cheated, openly flirted with Angelus in front of Spike, so she can't really be all that fussed with him. However, why would she spend more than 100 years with him, if that were the case? She is clearly affectionate with him and asks for reassurance that he loves her, so this doesn't seem to fit. Although Angelus and Darla spent a longer amount of time together even when, by their own admission they didn't love each other, Dru talked about being able to love without a soul. One assumes we was talking from experience and if she wasn't talking about Spike, whom was she talking about?
It's simply her way, embrace the contradiction
This may sound like a cop-out answer, but the mistake we often make is placing our own ideals of love onto others. In real life and in the Verse love can be subject to the individual and who are we to argue? Dru can be both loving family member and vile villain at the same time. She values love but she also has a greater passion for destruction than her childe (considering her attitude towards apocalypses in Innocence and Becoming compared to Spike's overall attitude). She clearly values the necklace from Spike in BBB but she also beams at Angelus human's heart, then pointedly says that it's Angel who knows how to speak to a girls heart. The problem I have is that either, she's oblivious to Angelus' cruelty towards Spike or she revels in it as sees it as part of the 'game'. She clearly likes the attention from both men, maybe it's because she can understand both their passions. She can love in a way that Angelus can't but she has a passion for evil that Spike doesn't.
Now I'm aware of the blurring lines the barely divide Angel and Angelus but to extend the conversation (because I believe Angel having a soul or not having a soul clearly affects his relationships), how do think Dru felt about Angel?
She seems disappointed that Angelus has a soul. She clearly makes the distinction between Angel and Angelus and her disdain or at least disappointment for his soulled counterpart.
This line is especially captivating because of the double meaning.
Because she could be referring to Angel caring about humans above his own vampiric family because he's sick with his soul, in other words, she sees his soul as affliction. Or she could mean she that he's placing his obsession with W&H above his feelings for his new family, i.e. Angel Investigations and that his soul is sick with the darkness that his obsession gives him. I'd like to think Dru means both and either way she's not happy because these are conflicts that could only arise in Angel, not Angelus.
One thing seems consistent is that Dru is not happy about her family being broken up. She's less than pleased with Angel's attempts to kill Darla and Spike's betrayal of both her and Angelus and what they are trying to acheive in bringing Acathla forth, compel her to attack Spike.
And vice versa, how do think Angel felt about Drusilla?
More than anything, guilt. He considers Dru the worst thing he's ever done. There is a lot of significance in his difficulty in killing Darla and Dru in Reunion and Redefinition and Hollands cites this...
Both of them represent a failure on his part. He feels he failed to save Darla and he feels Dru is the worst atrocity he's committed as Angelus. In both cases he doesn't simply see them as any random vampire or enemy. He has a personal connection with both of them and a face you recognise his harder to kill than one you don't and this is clear in his fight with both both women in Reunion when he appears to be hesistant when trying to kill Darla. They could have had anyone sire Darla, even any powerful vampire, but boy did they know what they were doing when they got Dru.
In short, his feelings for Dru are complex. What gave Angelus pride, brings Angel shame. As much as he sees her darkness, he can remember her innocence. What makes the scenes on Ats so compelling is that Dru as an opponent seems as menacing as they come. For me it's never been the physical threat but the psychological tortures that get to Angel. As Angelus he's in pain but seem relatively unfazed mentally by Holtz' torture and as Angel he wasn't able to be broken by torture in ITD, but I find his torture at the hands of Dru in WML especially chilling as she knows exactly how to destroy him mentally. It almost seems poetic in a twisted way that Dru was victim of Angelus' cruelty but he then becomes a victim of hers. When she had her soul she was at his mercy and both in WML and The Trial, he was at hers. Her torment becomes his torment.
Ok I've rambled on, but I do find this pair interesting. So what are your thoughts? How do you feel about Dru and Angel(us)? Does anyone even ship them? This is one relationship we rarely talk about in the fandom.
He utters those infamous words to Drusilla and this is really the point of my thread. I wanted to discuss the relationship between Drusilla and Angel(us)
I'm going to post some questions about the rather unique relationship between Angel (either soulled or soulless) and Drusilla.
My interest stems from the fact that Angel is my favourite character and I find Drusilla fascinating.
I'll also mention that in this thread I will mention Spike but only in relation to Dru and Angel. I'm not attempting to incite and Angel vs Spike thread and anyone who knows me, know that I rarely go in for such threads.
Anyway, here we go...
How do you think Dru felt about Angelus?
How do think Angelus felt about Dru?
Why do you think Dru continued to sleeep with Angelus in the 1800s and flirted so openly with him in 1998 when she was with Spike?
Now I'm aware of the blurring lines that barely divide Angel and Angelus but to extend the conversation (because I believe Angel having a soul or not having a soul clearly affects his relationships), how do think Dru felt about Angel?
And vice versa, how do think Angel felt about Drusilla?
__________________________________________________ _______________
How do you think Dru felt about Angelus?
Well considering sire/childe relationships aren't particularly dipicted as all that transcendent (apparently there is such a thing as a one bite stand), I'll say that Dru felt affection for her sire. She certainly seems drawn to him openly flirts with him or sleeps with him when he's around. I don't think this is exclusive to Angelus though. I believe her vampiric family mean a lot to her. She talks affectionately about her 'grandmum' Darla, eagerly wanting her to meet William and she goes through a lot of effort to prepare for her 'giving birth' to her as well. She often refers to Angelus as Daddy and talks about giving birth to William as well.
How do think Angelus felt about Dru?
I think he considers her his masterpiece, a constant reminder of the sadism that drives Angelus.
Quote:
Killing is so merciful at the end, isn't it? The pain has ended.
The consistent picture painted is that he didn't really care about Drusilla. He liked having her around but by the time she wanted to sire William, he seemed to have lost interest and even suggests that Dru finds someone else. When she does, this doesn't stop him from exercising his particular brand of sadism upon William, by taking away the one thing that gave him meaning in his unlife.
He continues this in 1998. His affections seem less focused on Dru and more focused on hurting Spike.
I'd say the only person Angelus indulged was Darla and Angel admitted that even she didn't make him happy. If you consider that Dru was able to sense that Angelus was more preoccupied with Darla and Angel admitted that he didn't love Darla, (which is consistent with the fact that he'd happily give her up to save himself) then it's fair to say that Angelus cared even less for Dru, but didn't mind using her as a tool for his sadistic mind games with Spike.
Why do you think Dru continued to sleep with Angelus in the 1800s and flirted so openly with him in 1998 when she was with Spike?
This is the question that gave me the most hassle. If I'm honest, I'm not really sure, but the possibilities are:
She's simply insane.
I don't really like this explanation because I think Dru is more complex than that. She's also a lot more deliberate in her actions than she appears IMO.
She didn't really love Spike
Angel suggested this in Lover's Walk. I'm not sure if he really believed this or if he was just scoring a cheap shot with Spike. I suppose we could reason that Dru cheated, openly flirted with Angelus in front of Spike, so she can't really be all that fussed with him. However, why would she spend more than 100 years with him, if that were the case? She is clearly affectionate with him and asks for reassurance that he loves her, so this doesn't seem to fit. Although Angelus and Darla spent a longer amount of time together even when, by their own admission they didn't love each other, Dru talked about being able to love without a soul. One assumes we was talking from experience and if she wasn't talking about Spike, whom was she talking about?
It's simply her way, embrace the contradiction
This may sound like a cop-out answer, but the mistake we often make is placing our own ideals of love onto others. In real life and in the Verse love can be subject to the individual and who are we to argue? Dru can be both loving family member and vile villain at the same time. She values love but she also has a greater passion for destruction than her childe (considering her attitude towards apocalypses in Innocence and Becoming compared to Spike's overall attitude). She clearly values the necklace from Spike in BBB but she also beams at Angelus human's heart, then pointedly says that it's Angel who knows how to speak to a girls heart. The problem I have is that either, she's oblivious to Angelus' cruelty towards Spike or she revels in it as sees it as part of the 'game'. She clearly likes the attention from both men, maybe it's because she can understand both their passions. She can love in a way that Angelus can't but she has a passion for evil that Spike doesn't.
Now I'm aware of the blurring lines the barely divide Angel and Angelus but to extend the conversation (because I believe Angel having a soul or not having a soul clearly affects his relationships), how do think Dru felt about Angel?
She seems disappointed that Angelus has a soul. She clearly makes the distinction between Angel and Angelus and her disdain or at least disappointment for his soulled counterpart.
This line is especially captivating because of the double meaning.
Because she could be referring to Angel caring about humans above his own vampiric family because he's sick with his soul, in other words, she sees his soul as affliction. Or she could mean she that he's placing his obsession with W&H above his feelings for his new family, i.e. Angel Investigations and that his soul is sick with the darkness that his obsession gives him. I'd like to think Dru means both and either way she's not happy because these are conflicts that could only arise in Angel, not Angelus.
One thing seems consistent is that Dru is not happy about her family being broken up. She's less than pleased with Angel's attempts to kill Darla and Spike's betrayal of both her and Angelus and what they are trying to acheive in bringing Acathla forth, compel her to attack Spike.
And vice versa, how do think Angel felt about Drusilla?
More than anything, guilt. He considers Dru the worst thing he's ever done. There is a lot of significance in his difficulty in killing Darla and Dru in Reunion and Redefinition and Hollands cites this...
Both of them represent a failure on his part. He feels he failed to save Darla and he feels Dru is the worst atrocity he's committed as Angelus. In both cases he doesn't simply see them as any random vampire or enemy. He has a personal connection with both of them and a face you recognise his harder to kill than one you don't and this is clear in his fight with both both women in Reunion when he appears to be hesistant when trying to kill Darla. They could have had anyone sire Darla, even any powerful vampire, but boy did they know what they were doing when they got Dru.
In short, his feelings for Dru are complex. What gave Angelus pride, brings Angel shame. As much as he sees her darkness, he can remember her innocence. What makes the scenes on Ats so compelling is that Dru as an opponent seems as menacing as they come. For me it's never been the physical threat but the psychological tortures that get to Angel. As Angelus he's in pain but seem relatively unfazed mentally by Holtz' torture and as Angel he wasn't able to be broken by torture in ITD, but I find his torture at the hands of Dru in WML especially chilling as she knows exactly how to destroy him mentally. It almost seems poetic in a twisted way that Dru was victim of Angelus' cruelty but he then becomes a victim of hers. When she had her soul she was at his mercy and both in WML and The Trial, he was at hers. Her torment becomes his torment.
Ok I've rambled on, but I do find this pair interesting. So what are your thoughts? How do you feel about Dru and Angel(us)? Does anyone even ship them? This is one relationship we rarely talk about in the fandom.
nightshade
Very interesting