Yet another shooting in America

[ILLYRIAN]

The 45th shooting in an American school this year, reports so far have 10 dead 20 injured. The school is in Oregon.
I wonder what excuse America will use this time?

 

[GwenRaiden]

BBC reporting 13 killed now.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Odd isn't it, how the gun lobby in America states that it is not guns that kill people, are they suggesting that any American person who has a gun be killed. If so will their guns be put in the coffin with them?

 

[JCoatsworth]

Don't forget: This wouldn't have happened if the teachers had carried guns. You know, for protection.

 

[thetopher]

Didn't they suggest armed security guards in Kindergartens after the Sandy Hook massacre? I mean, how utterly ludicrous.

Shy news was reporting 20 injured and 13 killed.

 

[Blaze]

This is sad to hear 🙁

 

[brinkster130]

My first thought was "business as usual". 🙁😡That's pretty sad, huh? I really wish people cared enough to do something about this. Going to school shouldn't be a scary thing.


So much could be done to help prevent this type of violence.

 

[redruM]

Guns are so ingrained into American culture that it would be literally impossible to completely remove them. The controversy of a forceful seizing of all firearms across the country will dwarf whatever controversy the gun control debate has ever caused. It's really not even a realistic option.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

It's not even a realistic option?
When those thousands of school children get old enough to have their say heard who will they blame for nothing being done. Don't say what you can't do, say what could be done.

 

[redruM]

It's not even a realistic option?
When those thousands of school children get old enough to have their say heard who will they blame for nothing being done. Don't say what you can't do, say what could be done.

I think the government confiscating every purchased firearm in the United States is an unrealistic option.

 

[thetopher]

I think the government confiscating every purchased firearm in the United States is an unrealistic option.

There's a big difference between a blanket gun ban and simple gun control. I don't think America has enough of the latter.
I think somebody has the legal right to protect themselves with a firearm that they've legally purchased after undgoing a thourogh background check. But somebody having access to multiple firearms including automatic weapons? How is that, in any way justifiably sane?

The problem is a complex one but SOME action has to be taken to tackle the problem instead of ignoring incident after incident.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think the government confiscating every purchased firearm in the United States is an unrealistic option.

and the thing is, they can only confiscate LEGALLY purchased weapons. That's why my father has several that are not registered. Criminals (not saying my father is) will always be able to get guns. I mean they bring them in illegally from other countries FFS... if you cant stop them from coming in illegally then simply removing the guns from law abiding citizens does nothing to stop the problem.

Illegal guns are cheap and easy to get. They always have been. I have known more than my fair share of drug dealers that have massive collection of illegal guns. Gun control CANNOT stop that from happening. It can't.

 

[white avenger]

I think the government confiscating every purchased firearm in the United States is an unrealistic option.

Not only unrealistic, but also impossible. In the first place, even by utilizing every law enforcement agent in every division of Federal, State, and Local, there wouldn't be enough manpower to find and confiscate all of the firearms, or even all of the specific type that seems to be most popular for this sort of thing. In addition, unless the Constitutional Rights of every American citizen were to be somehow suspended (get a Senator or Congressman to vote for THAT) it would be illegal. The Supreme Court has ruled that the wording of Article 2 of the Bill Of Rights does, in fact, guarantee Americans the right to own firearms for the purpose of self defense. As long as that ruling stands, there can be no piecemeal ban or seizure of privately owned firearms.

You don't have to agree with it, you don't have to like it, you may curse the "gun crowd" as uncaring ba*tards, but you can't get around the fact that this is the situation as it exists in the United States today.

My question is, given all of that, why hasn't someone made even the slightest effort to find an alternative solution? Schools, churches, and other so called gun free zones are the preferred targets for these people. If the government wants to make school campuses safe, simply declaring them to be gun free zones won't work, any more than having speed limit signs would work without having traffic police to stop the speeders. Why doesn't someone suggest that we have on site security personnel to protect those areas? Surely that would be a better solution than having the police arrive after all the shooting stops.

 

[brinkster130]

But can't gun control help? Of course it wouldn't solve everything, but isn't it a step in the right direction?

Many of these shootings are done with guns obtained legally, if those guns were harder (took longer) to get couldn't that potentially prevent that crime?

As for having armed security at gun free zones, who would pay for the training of these guards and their salaries? (not saying it's a bad idea, but just wondering)

 

[white avenger]

But can't gun control help? Of course it wouldn't solve everything, but isn't it a step in the right direction?

Many of these shootings are done with guns obtained legally, if those guns were harder (took longer) to get couldn't that potentially prevent that crime?

As for having armed security at gun free zones, who would pay for the training of these guards and their salaries? (not saying it's a bad idea, but just wondering)

First, we have to define the term, "gun control." To some people, it means taking measures to insure that the criminal use of firearms is reduced by enforcing laws already on the books. To others, it means making the private ownership of an AR15 or AK47 clone illegal. There is a compromise in there somewhere, but no one wants to look for it.

As for trained security personnel, we have people fresh out of the military looking for jobs right now, and while they are looking for those jobs, they're drawing unemployment payments from the Government. Certainly, not every one of those veterans is a combat veteran, but they are all trained in small arms and are at least as qualified for the job as just about any police officer would be.

Gun control, by any interpretation and to any degree is, at best, one of several possible solutions to this problem, but it is the only one that we ever hear anything about. It may, or may not, be the best solution. Obviously, however, it has proven to be the most difficult solution to enact, so why not try something else, something that can be implemented more quickly, while the two sides of the gun debate argue? Maybe an alternative could be found that will make all the gun control debate unnecessary, but we'll never know if we don't try.

 

[The Bronze]

When the standard response to a shooting in a country is: "everyone else should have been shooting first" then you know there's a big problem. Unfortunately it is now deep routed and ingrained in the culture. People think that it is normal to carry a deadly weapon just in case and because everyone else is doing it.

This culture isn't helped by the fact that guns are big business. Have a look at the links between the NRA and Government and how much money changes hands. Also have a browse into American arms manufacturing and dealing. There's no appetite for change when people can be getting rich instead.

If the country decided it wanted to take a step in the direction of sanity then they'd toughen up their laws and have an initial amnesty period. Make it clear that it's not normal to own or carry deadly weapons and it won't be accepted in future. Allow people the chance to hand in their weapons for cash for a year or so. After that period harsh prison sentences for anyone with unlicensed deadly weapons. It'll be massively hard work but you need to start somewhere.

Ironically however it might be that the gun toting crowd turn into the most valuable line of resistance when the country is officially sold off under the TPP & TTIP agreements. What seems like insanity to most countries during peace time of allowing everyone the opportunity to arm themselves to the teeth might become very useful if the people need to stand up to their government.
 
American deaths in terrorism vs. gun violence - CNN.com

This graph is worth a look.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Why doesn't someone suggest that we have on site security personnel to protect those areas? Surely that would be a better solution than having the police arrive after all the shooting stops.

Every school I know of in my area does have on site security personnel.

When you have someone who is mentally disturbed (which you have to be to go shoot a bunch of people, that's just a fact) - they will find a way if they want to. My local school had a student go around stabbing people with large kitchen knives.

It's not just as simple as "gun control" - you have to tackle the underlying problems, such as: mental health, violence, illegal immigration, drugs etc etc etc

We're not talking about people getting shot accidentally - that's something that gun control could solve if it were a huge problem. We're talking about people intentionally killing other people, and gun control isn't going to help that.

I'm all for restricting the types of weapons - thought that is slippery slope. But it's a band aid, not a solution.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

When you have someone who is mentally disturbed (which you have to be to go shoot a bunch of people, that's just a fact) - they will find a way if they want to. My local school had a student go around stabbing people with large kitchen knives.

When I was a freshmen in highschool one of my first days there I saw a kid shot in the back about five, six feet from me. It didn't have the same effect as the kid that brought a machete and was swinging it at people. The machete was scary, the gun was more of a 'what, huh? did that just happen' surreal moment.

I have had guns pointed at me three times in my life, but the knives were always what worried me the most.. so yeah, the stabbing with large knives I would find much more traumatic.

 

[Taake]

When I was a freshmen in highschool one of my first days there I saw a kid shot in the back about five, six feet from me. It didn't have the same effect as the kid that brought a machete and was swinging it at people. The machete was scary, the gun was more of a 'what, huh? did that just happen' surreal moment.

I have had guns pointed at me three times in my life, but the knives were always what worried me the most.. so yeah, the stabbing with large knives I would find much more traumatic.

Though that could be cultural conditioning.

At my school there were stabbings and while maybe it wasn't responded to with a "business as usual" shrug, it's just not reacted to the same way here as guns are because gun violence is less common. Like if someone gets shot anywhere in Sweden people are freaking out about it. Whereas stabbings are more every-day. (in lack of a better term) Where I live there was a guy who was literally scalped at a park and people were like; "well gangs be gangs", a guy was shot and the local news were like; "oh my god we're all going to die!"
So the prevalence of the thing helps to set the tone for the reaction

Anyway, horrible tragedy. That can't be stressed enough.
It's truly awful when these things happen and even more awful that a) one gets desentized the more often it happens b) it is used in various ways to score political points either which way.
My heart goes out to those who had to perish this way.

 

[Moonchild]

I don't think the guns are the problem on their own. Obviously they play a role because it wouldn't be possible to act out crimes of this type without them, but I honestly believe the bigger problem is how kids grow up realting/not realting to one another, the sad state of mental health care, bullying, etc. I have no idea how you'd even begin to fix it and I do think gun control is part of the solution, but even with gun control you still have miserable unhappy kids breeding a resentment for other kids that they don't have healthy ways to address.