You Still Mouth Off About Things You Don't Understand: Fair, Appropriate, Deserved?

[FlowerPower]

So over on the thread where we were discussing Willow's "cleavagy slutbomb" snark on Faith, I defended Willow and said that none of the Scoobies' plentiful snark on Faith bothered me too much because Faith was so awful to them. However I did say that if I had to pick the least appropriate bit of Scooby-snark on Faith in This Year's Girl, it would be:

Faith: I wake up to find that this blonde chick isn't even dating the guy she was so nuts about before. I mean, she's moved on to the first college beef stick she meets. And not only has she forgotten the love of her life, she's forgotten all about the chick she nearly killed for him. So that's my dream. That and some stuff about cigars in a tunnel. But, uh, tell me, college girl . . . what does it mean?
Buffy: To me? Mostly. That you still mouth off about things you don't understand.

Faith's one legit grievance in This Year's Girl is that her human and young life shouldn't have been sacrificed on a pyre because Buffy LOVED ANGEL SOOOO MUCH! I didn't think Faith was mouthing off here- she was saying exactly what I'd be saying if Buffy tried to kill me for Angel and I just woke up from my coma of like nine months. I don't hate on Buffy for the line or anything and I get why Buffy doesn't want to prostate herself with guilt and apologia before a murderer who's clearly hungering for more. And Angel leaving really wasn't Buffy's choice- she did love him that much. However, still, it's the winner for the least appropriate and bitchiest Scooby-snark in This Year's Girl.

 

[dj651]

I think it was a fair comment, but completely inappropriate. It's true that Faith didn't know what had been going on, but Buffy shouldn't have been so mean about it. I know it never would have happened, but in an ideal universe, they could have sat down over a cup of coffee and at least talked it out before proceeding to beat each other to a pulp (which I'm sure would have still been the end result).

 

[brinkster130]

Hmm, to be honest I always thought Faith was just mouthing off then.

Faith didn't know much about Buffy and Angels relationship and she had absolutely no clue the terms under which the two separated. She jumped to the assumption that Buffy just forgot about Angel and latched onto the next guy she came across; which in reality was pretty far from what happened.

While I understand Faiths anger forward Buffy, I don't think it is totally justified. Faith poisoned Angel knowing that Buffy would do anything to try and save him; an with a poison whose antidote was slayers blood. Faith surely wasn't daft enough to think that B wouldn't consider using her blood.

 

[FlowerPower]

Hmm, to be honest I always thought Faith was just mouthing off then.

Faith didn't know much about Buffy and Angels relationship and she had absolutely no clue the terms under which the two separated. She jumped to the assumption that Buffy just forgot about Angel and latched onto the next guy she came across; which in reality was pretty far from what happened.

No, I agree and I did say that in my OP. Still, I get why Faith leaped to that conclusion.* And I don't think that I'd ever consider whether my attempted murderer loved their boyfriend enough to merit sacrificing my life for him as a mitigating circumstance for my attempted murder/coma. But if I woke up from that coma, I'd be seizing on my indignation that she already moved on and demanding an explanation. *I* don't feel any indignation as a viewer and I get why Buffy moved on. Still, I think I'd feel differently if it was my stomach that bore the scar of the knife wound.

And even then, I have *very limited* sympathy for Faith. She brought this upon herself and as someone who was working on the Mayor getting to commit mass genocide, she opened herself up as a threat who would likely need to be taken out in the battle if nothing else. Still, though, there's enough in Buffy's attempted murder of Faith and Faith's legit anger over that and Buffy's utter dismissal of that anger, for me to call it the most inappropriate Scooby remark towards Faith. Still pretty justified but kind of inappropriate.

*Hah, if I had Faith's POV, I'd guess that Buffy was the dumper and Angel was the dumpee. Faith's inclined to think that Buffy is the one that can have it all and has all the power in her relationships. She definitely thinks that Angel turning her down in Enemies meant that Angel couldn't be seduced by any non-Buffy-shaped woman. I know she thinks that Angel is living like eunuch in LA which he is for now.

 

[xfivebyfive]

I think Faith had every right to be pissed off. Buffy justified murdering Faith because it was to save Angel. Uh no. If you don't kill people then you dont kill people you don't get to make an exception just because you love someone. She was willing to feed Faith to Angel, Faith wakes up and Buffy isn't even with him anymore! So if I were her I'd be angry too. I dont care what the reasons are or what the situation is I'd want revenge.

 

[PassionBecoming]

Hmm, to be honest I always thought Faith was just mouthing off then.

Faith didn't know much about Buffy and Angels relationship and she had absolutely no clue the terms under which the two separated. She jumped to the assumption that Buffy just forgot about Angel and latched onto the next guy she came across; which in reality was pretty far from what happened.

While I understand Faiths anger forward Buffy, I don't think it is totally justified. Faith poisoned Angel knowing that Buffy would do anything to try and save him; an with a poison whose antidote was slayers blood. Faith surely wasn't daft enough to think that B wouldn't consider using her blood.

I pretty much agree with this.

Faith saying that to Buffy always irked me and I thought that Buffy's retort was very appropriate and warranted. Faith poisoned Angel knowing Buffy would come after her; it's what she wanted. She wanted a show down, she lost, and she was ticked.

Now, the part that really gets me is that she, what, thinks Buffy was going to be dwelling about Faith forever? Buffy carried the weight of Faith's defect with her for sure, but did Faith expect visits in the hospital? Flowers? Get well soon cards? Um, Faith, you turned evil. You tried to kill Buffy, wanted to kill her friends, and tried to kill her boyfriend. I don't condone killing, but was Faith really surprised?? I never understood her attitude after she woke up. She was angry at Buffy and wanted revenge, but Buffy had reacted to her attacks.

Faith didn't understand or know anything about Buffy's relationship with Angel. (She failed at breaking them up quite badly.) She was lashing out at Buffy and didn't know the facts of her break-up with Angel or how she got together with Riley, so yeah, I think Buffy was pretty in-line with her comment.

 

[Xin Rong]

Hmm, to be honest I always thought Faith was just mouthing off then.

Faith didn't know much about Buffy and Angels relationship and she had absolutely no clue the terms under which the two separated. She jumped to the assumption that Buffy just forgot about Angel and latched onto the next guy she came across; which in reality was pretty far from what happened.

While I understand Faiths anger forward Buffy, I don't think it is totally justified. Faith poisoned Angel knowing that Buffy would do anything to try and save him; an with a poison whose antidote was slayers blood. Faith surely wasn't daft enough to think that B wouldn't consider using her blood.

I wouldn't say it was 'pretty far from what happened'... I always got annoyed with the Riley storyline... Buffy and Angel were supposed to be this neverending and strong love, and in less than a year she is ready to move on into a serious relationship with someone else, that always seems a little false to me.

 

[KellGreen]

So over on the thread where we were discussing Willow's "cleavagy slutbomb" snark on Faith, I defended Willow and said that none of the Scoobies' plentiful snark on Faith bothered me too much because Faith was so awful to them. However I did say that if I had to pick the least appropriate bit of Scooby-snark on Faith in This Year's Girl, it would be:


Faith's one legit grievance in This Year's Girl is that her human and young life shouldn't have been sacrificed on a pyre because Buffy LOVED ANGEL SOOOO MUCH! I didn't think Faith was mouthing off here- she was saying exactly what I'd be saying if Buffy tried to kill me for Angel and I just woke up from my coma of like nine months. I don't hate on Buffy for the line or anything and I get why Buffy doesn't want to prostate herself with guilt and apologia before a murderer who's clearly hungering for more. And Angel leaving really wasn't Buffy's choice- she did love him that much. However, still, it's the winner for the least appropriate and bitchiest Scooby-snark in This Year's Girl.

I'm with Faith on this one. A slayer willing to kill another slayer for a vampire, because she just loved him SO much that she felt he deserved to stay undead at any cost. Later, with what she says to Willow about not killing Warren is so sickeningly full of hypocrisy it's ridiculous. Also, Faith knew how much Angel meant to Buffy, so her being with Riley would have been a bit surprising and detract from the above (that B determined F deserved death for trying to kill her Romeo...but then them not even staying together). Further, much like Spike does, Faith knew that would be a button that would get a hell of a reaction from Buffy, and it works because that is Buffy's weak spot (her insecurity about being worthy of love and feeling abandoned).

 

[FlowerPower]

Now, the part that really gets me is that she, what, thinks Buffy was going to be dwelling about Faith forever? Buffy carried the weight of Faith's defect with her for sure, but did Faith expect visits in the hospital? Flowers? Get well soon cards? Um, Faith, you turned evil. You tried to kill Buffy, wanted to kill her friends, and tried to kill her boyfriend. I don't condone killing, but was Faith really surprised?? I never understood her attitude after she woke up. She was angry at Buffy and wanted revenge, but Buffy had reacted to her attacks.

Faith, at that point, was a sociopath who expected to walk into Buffy's life and take everything from her. I didn't care about what Faith expected. However, *I*, as a viewer/judge, expected that Buffy would take her attempted murder very seriously and who would have some reaction or display of guilt when Faith reminds Buffy that Buffy tried to murder her.

By saving Faith, Buffy would have let Angel die and Faith was stone-cold-evil then but the attempted murder of an eighteen year old isn't nothing. It's a big something. If Buffy brought her exact case to the police, she'd be serving hard time. No doubt about it.

 

[PassionBecoming]

Faith, at that point, was a sociopath who expected to walk into Buffy's life and take everything from her. I didn't care about what Faith expected. However, *I*, as a viewer/judge, expected that Buffy would take her attempted murder very seriously and who would have some reaction or display of guilt when Faith reminds Buffy that Buffy tried to murder her.

By saving Faith, Buffy would have let Angel die and Faith was stone-cold-evil then but the attempted murder of an eighteen year old isn't nothing. It's a big something. If Buffy brought her exact case to the police, she'd be serving hard time. No doubt about it.

I'm not arguing that Buffy was justified in attempting to murder Faith, I'm just saying that Faith tried to do the same thing to many, many others without guilt, remorse or much thought to it. If Buffy wanted to rip her a new one, I'm just fine with that.

Buffy was remorseful and regretted hurting her - we saw that in Graduation Day. I don't think that when Faith confronted her in public is the time to show any sign of weakness, period. Buffy needed to get her under control fast before she hurt someone else. Part of that is getting to her mentally and I think Buffy did that correctly.

My main point is that after Faith betrayed Buffy, tried to turn Angel, tried to kill Xander, wanted to kill Willow, tried to kill Angel, helped the Mayor attempt to eat everyone, immediately went after Buffy, her friends, her mom, went to LA to torture Wesley and try to kill Angel....well, anything anyone had to say to her at that point is pretty much warranted.

 

[ChosenOneK]

I think it was appropriate and diserved. Faith still clearly had some issues and wasnt willing to talk them out with buffy. I think faith deserved it ohhh yeaahh

 

[Taake]

I think it was mainly said in anger but definitely fair.

Both of them were carrying pent up feelings about each other at that point and they just weren't communicating well if at all. Faith was looking at Buffy with a very biased view and Buffy instantly grew very defensive, if it was deserved however could be discussed... really it didn't look good from Faith's side but then again she did jump to conclusions due to her own ire and disappointment.

Appropriate? Well not necessarily, Buffy chose to stoop to Faith's level there (perfectly understandable) but if she hadn't been clouded by her own emotions at the time maybe she could have reasoned with her sister-slayer and explained. (Yes, in an ideal world I realize and in a very boring tv-show 😉 But the question was if it was appropriate or not and I'm gonna have to say no to that.)