Your reaction to Fred's soul being ''destroyed''?

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itssmiletime

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In ''Shells'' we here that Fred's soul had been destroyed, meaning that her essence had been burned in the fires of resurrection.

So my question is: When you first heard that Fred's soul had been ''destroyed''? How did you react to it? Did you interpret it as it meaning that Fred would have no afterlife? Or that there was zero possibility that she would return, it was as if she died naturally?

I remember being terribly depressed and upset by it. The whole concept that someone could just have their own soul and essence taken away struck me as completely evil. Yeah, Whedon gets his rep for killing beloved characters, but to destroy someones soul just took it to another level for me.

I do apologise in advance if any of this didn't make sense, as you can see for my picture, I really love Fred and kinda get really sad over this 🙁
 
I did take it to mean she would have no afterlife and that she basically completely ceased to exist, which was on of the many reasons I cried my eyes out when I first watched her death scene. But then, through the rest of the season Illyria seems to start showing inclinations Fred had and similar sentiments and I thought maybe it is impossible to completely iradicate someone's soul and that in consuming it, Illyria sort of absorbed it into herself and so Fred, even if only slightly, lived on in Illyria.
 
Aimee
Aimee
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I did take it to mean that she wouldn't have an afterlife as well. That was one of the most upsetting things about the whole possession, for someone as lovely and awesome as Fred to not get an afterlife even after everything she went through made me super angry.

That's why, in my head, Fred is living happily ever after with Wesley and Cordy in heaven.
 
I viewed it the same way, that not only was Fred dead, but everything about her was gone and destroyed, her very "essence" as you said. I think part of it was they'd already established with Buffy that when a hero dies they go to a better place (a much better place from the way Buffy tells it) and such, they were probably a little spooked that the emotional impact of Fred's death would be diminished by some of the audience making that connection and going "oh, it's okay though, she's in the same place Buffy was". So to counter that, they literally destroyed her soul.

I remember when I first saw it with my brother, I was a bit younger and he had to explain to me how she wasn't just dead, and there was no afterlife or whatever for her either. I recall just sitting back and going "wow. That's pretty heavy".

However, they've kind of retconned that part of her story out in the comics. Illyria has made it very clear that there are vestiges of Fred still inside her, and if anything they seem to be growing and expanding from where I am in the story.

But yeah, it was very sad. I'm a huge Fred fan too.
 
Joss seems to throw the soul around as if he understood what it is. He does the same thing with Angel and Spike when they get their souls returned. To me, it just seems like the writers do not understand the soul and have issues with the whole concept of mortality. This may be expected on a show featuring an immortal character as the lead character, but it seems outrageous even by that standard. Definitely not a fan of that particular piece of writing.
 
Yeah, they really needed to be clear on what it was, and the parameters, and they seemed to change it as they went along. Poor continuity.
 
I don't really believe that any of us have a soul or that we go anywhere when we die so to me...Fred got what we all get when we die...nothing. So I felt terrible for her. Although, maybe she was luckier than someone like Lilah who was, for a time, a prisoner of Wolfram & Hart after she died. Maybe that's worse. Although I don't think anything scares me more than thought of just not existing. I can't wrap my head around that.
 
Skepticism, at the very least. I have 65 years of teaching, coupled with a strong faith and conviction, that the soul is the one true immortal, unchanging part of a human being, and my disbelief is far, far too strong to accept anything like that just to suit Joss' script.At the very worst, I might have accepted a statement that Fred's soul was lost and irretrievable by any magical means,but that is about as far as my disbelief could possibly be suspended on the subject.

I do find it rather ironic, in view of what supposedly happened to Fred's soul, that Joss commented once that he had planned to bring Fred back if there had been a televised Season 6, having Amy play a double role from that point on.So apparently not even Joss could accept the "soul totally consumed" statement, unless he was planning to bring her back without a soul.
 
itssmiletime said:
In ''Shells'' we here that Fred's soul had been destroyed, meaning that her essence had been burned in the fires of resurrection.

So my question is: When you first heard that Fred's soul had been ''destroyed''? How did you react to it? Did you interpret it as it meaning that Fred would have no afterlife? Or that there was zero possibility that she would return, it was as if she died naturally?

I remember being terribly depressed and upset by it. The whole concept that someone could just have their own soul and essence taken away struck me as completely evil. Yeah, Whedon gets his rep for killing beloved characters, but to destroy someones soul just took it to another level for me.

I do apologise in advance if any of this didn't make sense, as you can see for my picture, I really love Fred and kinda get really sad over this 🙁
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I agree with most of the above comments: for me it meant that everything that was Fred ceased to exist... she didn't go to a better place or get reincarnated etc and as such her death was the single most tragic death of any character in the buffyverse: she was gone, an would never be reunited with the people she loved. I don't know how wesley coped with such a loss, he had no hope, not even false hope. True Tragedy!
 
I was sad. So very very sad. What made it worse is Fred is so sweet and everything nice and good. I can't even type about it without getting sad. I am sad.
 
I think Fred was completely destroyed, no return.

I thought it was horrible, mean and just incredibly painful to watch.

But brilliant TV, when TV can make you feel that sad.
 
Yeah, I found the notion that Fred's soul was destroyed to be the most disturbing aspect of either Buffy or Angel as a whole. Like white avenger mentions, Whedon planned on bringing Fred back in Season 6, but we never got to see that. Likewise, I'm skeptical that her soul really was destroyed anyway. Dr. Sparrow just isn't trustworthy. Besides, we do see Fred's personality exhibited through Illyria. My theory is that Fred's soul merged with Illyria. So, while Fred's not currently in heaven yet, neither has her soul been annihilated.
 
R
Robb Stark
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SnoopDoug said:
Yeah, I found the notion that Fred's soul was destroyed to be the most disturbing aspect of either Buffy or Angel as a whole. Like white avenger mentions, Whedon planned on bringing Fred back in Season 6, but we never got to see that. Likewise, I'm skeptical that her soul really was destroyed anyway. Dr. Sparrow just isn't trustworthy. Besides, we do see Fred's personality exhibited through Illyria. My theory is that Fred's soul merged with Illyria. So, while Fred's not currently in heaven yet, neither has her soul been annihilated.
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Maybe by destroyed they meant fragmented, in a similar way that Gile's soul seems to be presented as being in Angel and Faith... so it has been destroyed/fragmented, but it can be put back together?
 
Xin Rong said:
Maybe by destroyed they meant fragmented, in a similar way that Gile's soul seems to be presented as being in Angel and Faith... so it has been destroyed/fragmented, but it can be put back together?
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Could be, for sure. They get into the Fred/Illyria soul issue in the comics too, but I have yet to read any of them beyond summaries.
 
I've read them and just can't remember how they dealt with it, only general things that happen in the comics seem to stick in my mind... defo need to reread
 
The whole thing just crushed me. When I first watched the episode when she dies I could not believe my eyes. I was absolutely sure they would find a cure, who would expect a main character to simply die like that. I was in utter shock. Wesley is my favorite character in season 5 and it broke my heart to see him lose her.

Now for the soul thing, it really was the straw that broke the camel's back. It is probably the death that affected me the most, even worst that Tara (who's my favorite) simply because it was awful. Everything about Fred was gone, she could never exist anymore, not even in an afterlife. Just the though of it is crazy.
 
Aimee
Aimee
Yes to all of this! It was crushing.
My reaction was more or less *sigh* because it just felt like an excuse to why they wouldn't be bringing the real Fred back. It was just a little bit too convenient to be fully believable but because the soul and re-gaining it is such a big deal of the show mythology I get that they had to explain why Illyria was there to stay.
 
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