Zobo's Buffy re-watch

[zobothehobo]

I started a Buffy re-watch a couple days ago I'm now on Inca Mummy Girl (going to start it in a bit). I wasn't going to make a re-watch thread BUT then this nifty section of the board popped up and now I feel like I have to be cool and be the first one to have my re-watch thread.

My thoughts so far: Angel is irritating, Xander's not as irritating as I remember (although I think that should change as the series goes on), I don't really see how Buffy's clothes in the early seasons were all that slutty, I feel like Giles should have had WAY more knowledge in season 1 than he did. And SPIKE AND DRU ARE FINALLY HERE!!!!!!! Yup I think that pretty much sums up my thoughts so far. Oh also on this re-watch I like Buffy more than Willow. All the other times I've watch the early seasons I've liked Willow more but now I really like Buffy more. Watching the movie I think gave me a lot of insight into who Buffy was before Sunnydale and made me appreciate her character early on a lot more than I used to.

 

[zobothehobo]

I just watched The Dark Age and I'm really annoyed with the fact no one specifically says "This wouldn't have happened if you had told someone what was going on" to Giles. I mean Jenny wouldn't have ever been possessed by Eygon and Buffy wouldn't have gotten tattooed by Ethan and they probably would have been able to catch Ethan if Giles had just said "this is what's going on." ESPECIALLY when they were in the library and Buffy says "what is the mark of Eygon?" Also I really wish Buffy had said something like "it's my business because it's clearly mystical and supernatural so as the slayer, it's my business." It's just another example of Giles driving me nuts.

Note on this re-watch as a whole: I forgot how much I loved Sprusilla. I'm glad I re-newed my love for them. Also while I'm a Giles/Joyce shipper... I love the cuteness of Giles/Jenny. I'm very much big on teachers dating each other in real life so in my fiction it's really cute too.

 

[zobothehobo]

I do not like Jenny. I haven't liked her really since the first time I saw season 2 and everything that went down with Angel. I should be sleeping right now, but I've gotten in a grove. I just started Passion. Jenny just said "I was raised by the people Angel hurt the most." That just really pissed me off. That's not a fair statement AT ALL. She was raised by people Angel hurt who place an extremely high level of importance on grudges and vengeance. NOT necessarily the people Angel hurt the most. I mean we KNOW Dru was the one he did hurt the most... and we also KNOW he was following a similar pattern with Buffy... We also know what he did to Holtz. So I think it's safe to assume Dru, Buffy, and Holtz are among the ones he's hurt the most at this point... what did he do to that gypsy tribe? He killed a (as in one) beloved girl quite a few generations before. He didn't torture her, or them... he killed one member of the family generations before all of this went down. I'm pretty damn sure he killed one member of a lot of families. What he did to Dru and Hotlz and was doing to Buffy was WAY more than that. I give her props for trying to re-ensoul him and all... but her statement right there really irks me. It shows absolutely no regard or respect for Buffy and everything she's going through.

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

That all being said about how much I don't like Jenny... when Giles finds her in his bed is one of the saddest moments of the whole show. It's up there with The Body and Tara's death IMO.

 

[BuffangelLovE]

I do not like Jenny. I haven't liked her really since the first time I saw season 2 and everything that went down with Angel. I should be sleeping right now, but I've gotten in a grove. I just started Passion. Jenny just said "I was raised by the people Angel hurt the most." That just really pissed me off. That's not a fair statement AT ALL. She was raised by people Angel hurt who place an extremely high level of importance on grudges and vengeance. NOT necessarily the people Angel hurt the most. I mean we KNOW Dru was the one he did hurt the most... and we also KNOW he was following a similar pattern with Buffy... We also know what he did to Holtz. So I think it's safe to assume Dru, Buffy, and Holtz are among the ones he's hurt the most at this point... what did he do to that gypsy tribe? He killed a (as in one) beloved girl quite a few generations before. He didn't torture her, or them... he killed one member of the family generations before all of this went down. I'm pretty damn sure he killed one member of a lot of families. What he did to Dru and Hotlz and was doing to Buffy was WAY more than that. I give her props for trying to re-ensoul him and all... but her statement right there really irks me. It shows absolutely no regard or respect for Buffy and everything she's going through.

You're absolutely right, and...
...the thing I never understood about Jenny, is also why she let it come that far without saying anything. She didn't even had to talk to Giles, but just to Angel. I mean, by the time of "Surprise" she must have gained enough trust in him to speak up. He saved her life, for god's sake!!! She could've told him who she was and everything she knew about his curse. She didn't. So yeah I was sad for Giles for losing Jenny that way, but I was never sad for Jenny herself. She messed up big time. And speaking of "Passion", the only thing I really like about Jenny, is that her character probably experienced the most "beautiful" departure in the history of BTVS. Let's face it, Angelus' way of killing her was pure art and I enjoy every bit of it. I am not a cold-hearted person at all, but I had great difficulty to raise much pity for Jenny, while Buffy had to suffer so much at that time (what could have been prevented).

 

[Icarium]

She could've told him who she was and everything she knew about his curse.

Which was pretty much what Angel already knew. Jenny didn't know about the loophole until her retarded uncle told her upon which she called him crazy. And this happened after Angel had lost his soul.

So I think it's safe to assume Dru, Buffy, and Holtz are among the ones he's hurt the most at this point... what did he do to that gypsy tribe? He killed a (as in one) beloved girl quite a few generations before. He didn't torture her, or them... he killed one member of the family generations before all of this went down. I'm pretty damn sure he killed one member of a lot of families.

We later learn that it was Spike (and Darla?) who actually did it, IIRC, but Uncle Enyos blames Angel for the massacre - "So you just forget that he destroyed the most beloved daughter of your tribe?! That he *killed* every man, woman and child that touched her life?!". And it's not as if Jenny could really check the truth of that story, if Angel was wrongly blamed the fault lies with the previous generations of the gypsy clan, not Jenny.

I just watched The Dark Age and I'm really annoyed with the fact no one specifically says "This wouldn't have happened if you had told someone what was going on" to Giles.

Why spell it out explicitly when Jenny giving Giles the cold shoulder could do the trick?

I am not a cold-hearted person at all, but I had great difficulty to raise much pity for Jenny, while Buffy had to suffer so much at that time (what could have been prevented).

On the flip side Jenny died because Buffy not only didn't stake Angel when she defeated him in Innocence but she let him go too. I think that's way more irresponsible than Jenny's lies.

 

[The Unspoken]

I do not like Jenny. I haven't liked her really since the first time I saw season 2 and everything that went down with Angel. I should be sleeping right now, but I've gotten in a grove. I just started Passion. Jenny just said "I was raised by the people Angel hurt the most." That just really pissed me off. That's not a fair statement AT ALL. She was raised by people Angel hurt who place an extremely high level of importance on grudges and vengeance. NOT necessarily the people Angel hurt the most. I mean we KNOW Dru was the one he did hurt the most... and we also KNOW he was following a similar pattern with Buffy... We also know what he did to Holtz. So I think it's safe to assume Dru, Buffy, and Holtz are among the ones he's hurt the most at this point... what did he do to that gypsy tribe? He killed a (as in one) beloved girl quite a few generations before. He didn't torture her, or them... he killed one member of the family generations before all of this went down. I'm pretty damn sure he killed one member of a lot of families. What he did to Dru and Hotlz and was doing to Buffy was WAY more than that.

And you're missing the point entirely. What really happened is besides the point - it's about how the gypsies instilled in their children the grudge against Angel. Jenny was raised with the belief that Angel hurt her people the most, and she can hardly be blamed for believing what she believes. Not to mention she actually rebels against that belief in 'Innocence' when she finds out about the happiness clause.

I give her props for trying to re-ensoul him and all... but her statement right there really irks me. It shows absolutely no regard or respect for Buffy and everything she's going through.

A loved one was taken from the gypsies, just like Angelus' re-emergence took Angel from Buffy. Given Angelus' track record, Buffy is hardly the first person to experience something like this.

You're absolutely right, and...
...the thing I never understood about Jenny, is also why she let it come that far without saying anything. She didn't even had to talk to Giles, but just to Angel. I mean, by the time of "Surprise" she must have gained enough trust in him to speak up. He saved her life, for god's sake!!! She could've told him who she was and everything she knew about his curse. She didn't. So yeah I was sad for Giles for losing Jenny that way, but I was never sad for Jenny herself. She messed up big time. And speaking of "Passion", the only thing I really like about Jenny, is that her character probably experienced the most "beautiful" departure in the history of BTVS. Let's face it, Angelus' way of killing her was pure art and I enjoy every bit of it. I am not a cold-hearted person at all, but I had great difficulty to raise much pity for Jenny, while Buffy had to suffer so much at that time (what could have been prevented).

She didn't know about the happiness clause, and she was kept in the dark by her people. When she finds out, she rebels against the gypsies' penchant for vengeance and tries to re-ensoul Angel, which goes against everything she's been raised to belief. If you ask me, she's just as much a victim of circumstance as Buffy was in season 2, perhaps even more so.

 

[zobothehobo]

And you're missing the point entirely. What really happened is besides the point - it's about how the gypsies instilled in their children the grudge against Angel. Jenny was raised with the belief that Angel hurt her people the most, and she can hardly be blamed for believing what she believes. Not to mention she actually rebels against that belief in 'Innocence' when she finds out about the happiness clause.

I know. I know... I just don't like her and yes she was raised to believe Angel hurt her people the most... but by Passion she should know that's not true. And talking to Giles right there, she should change the story to the truth. Say "I was raised by people who were devastated by Angel's actions." See how that's still big and meaningful yet is still truthful? I just think she could have and should have showed some sort of acknowledgement to the truth about Angelus.

A loved one was taken from the gypsies, just like Angelus' re-emergence took Angel from Buffy. Given Angelus' track record, Buffy is hardly the first person to experience something like this.

I didn't say she was. I said he was following a similar pattern of what he did with Dru in terms of psychological torture (which is something he and Dru talk about quite a bit).

 

[Icarium]

I know. I know... I just don't like her and yes she was raised to believe Angel hurt her people the most... but by Passion she should know that's not true.

How exactly should she know? How does one measure "hurt" anyway? Since the Kalderash are still holding a grudge century later, I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to say they were hurt the most. And even if it was just a stupid hyperbole - so what? When Buffy says things like "When you kiss me I want to die" do you think she should have been more literal too?

 

[brinkster130]

I, like Zobo, am not crazy about Jenny. I understand her people were hurt and she was taught to hold an old grudge but I still felt like she should have been honest with Giles. I thought she would have trusted Giles more than she did. That being said I do think her death was well done, Giles finding her in his apartment was heartbreaking.

Another reason I never really took to Jenny was because as far as characters go we didn't get to know her very well.