Episode Discussion 1.12 "Omega" - Aired 5/8/09 - (FOX-USA)

^ That's kind of how I felt. I love Minear as a writer. Just felt like it morphed into a 70's cop show with a foot chase at the power station. Was expecting something more radical in this ep. But I did like the Whiskey backstory. I liked the flashback structure to the whole thing.

Why wasn't Omega actually insane? Not enough people in the composite event? Or do you need a psycho killer in the mix to stir things up?
 
I thought it was awesome! It cleared a few really subtle things as well, such as why they freaked out so much when Victor was displaying an attraction to Sierra; because of how it turned out last time with Alpha!

As much talk as there was about Dr Saunders being a doll, I was still quite shocked. I've noticed a few people saying that it was a lame idea after doing it with Victor and Mellie etc, but they did always do it in different ways and the fact that they developed Dr Saunders so much as herself, I think it still made an impact. For me it did anyway!

Like most people, I liked Ballard and the 'souls' thing, I liked how he made the others (Adele, Topher etc) realise that the dolls do have some residual sense of themselves, and that are not simply 'dolls.'

I thought the 'watch your step' sequence was hilarious. Although they did kind of make Alpha (as a doll) more stupid than docile, for comedy value I guess, but still.

I really hope there is another season, I'm getting the feeling they'll use Ballard and Echo to go after Alpha in the second series, or maybe that is what the DVD episode will be about...who knows! I can't wait for the DVD release though! 😀
 
Alpha was a bit of a simple genius if that makes sense...like he had the smarts, just not the execusion...I loved that "watch your feet" thing. 😀
 
Airam
Airam
your banner is gorgeous! took me a sec to realize it was julie, she looks absolutely stunning!
What a great way to end the season of Dollhouse, it was full of action, drama and twists, the perfect concoction. I was surprised and not so surprised with Dr Saunders being a "broken" doll called Whiskey. It makes so much sense seeing why she got all cut up by Alpha and why he wanted Echo to suceed over her being the best doll. Very twisted and weird, loved how Paul slowly came around to the Dollhouse a bit more and got to see November finally finishing her contract. I love how he said to her he was no one at the end, it was very touching.

Not enough more of Victor and Sierra though, I would have loved to have seen more of them and see some more of the Bounty Hunter storyline. I loved Novembers line about molesting and still being in her pyjamas to Sierra that was a cracking line. Alpha and Echo squaring off with Caroline's personality in someone else, that was brilliant and at times hard to follow but I loved how Echo totally kicked his arse and wouldn't listen to what Alpha wanted. Over all a great episode, am curious to see episode 13 one day though and I just hope this episode was enough to give Dollhouse the green light for a season 2. 😀
 
Wow, I thought that was amazing. Alan Tudyk rocks my socks, he's such a great actor. I never thought he would be able to pull of the creepy bad guy role, but it was perfect. I thought everyone was great actually, Eliza too.

And I'm loving Ballard. When he picked to 'free' Madeline, I thought that was so sweet. That whole scene, with his 'I'm nobody' answer, made me cry. There has to be more Dollhouse!
 
It was really great. I think the show has great potential, and I really crave for a second season, especially since this episode doesn't conclude the whole story, with Alpha still at large, most of the characters not having really evolved (Topher, Claire, Adele, Boyd...) : there's a glimpse of change for everyone of them but that's just not enough - and even the Dollhouse needs to be shut down and Caroline de-Echo-ized in the real series finale (or before). It's clear that that was not the end of a show, just of a season.

Loved Amy Acker. Loved, loved, loved. Still hope she'd show us her wonderful smile though... I dropped my fork (yes I'm eating while watching Dollhouse) during her speech about being "ugly" (lol at Amy Acker being any kind of ugly btw) and I gasped at the beginning when she came out of the blue light.

Really, the show, even more than us, needs a second season.
 
This show continues to go back and forth in quality as it has since it started. After a couple great episodes, I was expecting a lot from this season (series?) finale. It just didn't really deliver the goods. Alan Tudyk was good, but there was a lot of buildup in the last episode and it just didn't go anywhere that cool in this one. Saunders is a doll.....neither surprising, nor interesting. How many times are they going to pull this stunt and expect it to blow my mind? They did it with Victor. They did with Mellie. Now Saunders.....could we have a couple of people here and there who aren't dolls? This is getting worse than 24's overuse of "the mole." At least they only repeat that plot once a season. This is three times within a half-season's worth of episodes! Soooo lame. And what are they going to do with these millions of doll characters? Don't we have enough with Echo, Sierra, Victor, and November (though she may be done?). I mean, they already seem to have trouble finding a use for all of them in episodes.

The one positive note was Ballard freeing November. Doesn't save this one for me.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I could be completely wrong about this because I'm just going on memory.

But,

when November gets freed at the end of the episode and she tells Ballard her name is Madeline... I think that's wrong.
A few episodes ago Ballard snuck into the FBI offices and traced November's prints. Her criminal record showed up and I'm 99% sure it said her name was Polly. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Thoughts?
 
Revolver said:
Now Saunders.....could we have a couple of people here and there who aren't dolls? This is getting worse than 24's overuse of "the mole.".
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The Whiskey reveal is interesting to me, cos she now knows she's a doll...and a weird composite doll at that. Doesn't even want to know her original persona.
 
Don said:
I'll preface this by saying that I could be completely wrong about this because I'm just going on memory.

But,

when November gets freed at the end of the episode and she tells Ballard her name is Madeline... I think that's wrong.
A few episodes ago Ballard snuck into the FBI offices and traced November's prints. Her criminal record showed up and I'm 99% sure it said her name was Polly. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Thoughts?
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As I recall, he found multiple results.
 
Don said:
I'll preface this by saying that I could be completely wrong about this because I'm just going on memory.

But,

when November gets freed at the end of the episode and she tells Ballard her name is Madeline... I think that's wrong.
A few episodes ago Ballard snuck into the FBI offices and traced November's prints. Her criminal record showed up and I'm 99% sure it said her name was Polly. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Thoughts?
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A LOT of criminal records flashed across the screen in that ep, different names on each of them, before they all disappeared. At any rate, considering that the Dollhouse could make her think her name is whatever they want, and if she's in enough trouble, they might give her a whole new identity before letting her out, who knows whether Madeline was her name? It is NOW, and that's what's important, I guess. ::huh1::
 
Don said:
I'll preface this by saying that I could be completely wrong about this because I'm just going on memory.

But,

when November gets freed at the end of the episode and she tells Ballard her name is Madeline... I think that's wrong.
A few episodes ago Ballard snuck into the FBI offices and traced November's prints. Her criminal record showed up and I'm 99% sure it said her name was Polly. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

My guess on this is that November managed to gain a lot of FBI exposure during her time at the Dollhouse. Remember awhile back Ballard tried to do a search on Caroline as a name and came up with no results? Madeline wouldn't have come up, but any indisrections she has had over contract possibly might have.

That's my thought anway.
 
Well, I have to admit, I really enjoyed this episode. I totally didn't see the thing with Saunders being a doll. I was totally shocked. Also didn't see the thing with Alpha. Maybe I'm dense, but I just didn't expect that at all. I'd love to know what her deal is, why she signed up, etc. So many unanswered questions. She is becoming more interesting. Her comments to Victor were very interesting, when she told him to was ugly and couldn't be his best anymore. I have a feeling she is experiencing a lot of self-hatred, possibly for joining the Dollhouse. And so sad about her finding about she's a doll! What now? Will they reprogram her?

- Where's Echo's new handler???

- Topher looked genuinely sad at the end of this episode. Maybe he's starting to see how totally f*cked up his involvement with the Dollhouse is. Why did he look so shocked when Echo touched his chest? That was strange.

- The Dollhouse, Adelle...they're all so in over their heads. Why can't they admit it? They obviously cannot control what they have created.

- Ballard joining them? What? Huh? Why? Does he have a plan on maybe saving Echo "from the inside"? I doubt he would just join the Dollhouse for "fun" and I doubt his little obsession with Caroline has waned. It was really sweet of him to demand that Madeline be released. That was sad when she didn't recognize him (how could she?). It seemed like he genuniely wished she had. Maybe someday he'll tell her what happened.

- Man, how hot was Amy is this episode? It was cool to see her in A "sexy" role - if only for one scene. Interesting how Alpha/Steven (?) was jealous of Whiskey being the best and most requested doll, and that's why he attacked her.

- ALAN, yeah baby! Wow, wasn't he great? What a great role. So deliciously insane! And as bizarre as it was to see him and Eliza together, I must say I enjoyed it. And him and Amy! Even more strange! That blond girl was great too. That was so bizarre with Omega talking to herself/Caroline in that girls body. Major creepiness.

Man, so much going on in this episode. Honestly, I could go on forever.

I must admit, I've gotten attached to this show despite my practical objections to doing so. It's not perfect, but I think it has a lot of potential. I really hope it gets picked up for a second season. There's still so much to find out and explore!

I'll be back later.
 
AndrewCrossett said:
Can someone explain to me what the goal of this show is? In terms of, what do the characters want? And what are we supposed to want for them? What would constitute success for these people? What are we rooting for, exactly?

Because after being blown away for 95% of this episode, I sat through yet another inevitable "did I fall asleep" reset, and I realized that I just don't know anymore what I would consider a victory for Echo, or Paul, or any of the others. And I'm not sure they do, either.

I'm just not on the same page as Joss & Co. with this show anymore, I guess. I hope it gets renewed, but I'm just not sure how much longer it will hold my interest if it does.
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1.) Echo - to reunite with Caroline, become whole again and free.

2.) Paul - to bring down the Dollhouse conglomerate

3.) Boyd - to make sure Echo is as safe and happy as possible

4.) Topher - kinda happy as-is
 
C
charmingslayer
[No message]
Buffyverse Fan said:
1.) Echo - to reunite with Caroline, become whole again and free.

2.) Paul - to bring down the Dollhouse conglomerate

3.) Boyd - to make sure Echo is as safe and happy as possible

4.) Topher - kinda happy as-is
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I understand what Andrew is getting at. This show is very, er, postmodern in the sense that it doesn't really follow a "traditional" storyline and structure. It's not even clear who the protagonist(s) are or who we're supposed to be "rooting" for.

I'd disagree about Topher, though. I don't think he's happy as-is or else why would he need to program a doll every year so he can have a friend? I think Topher is more complicated then we think he is. I think everyone in there is vastly unhappy and lonely. They all have forced themselves to believe that what they are doing is the right thing, that they are helping humanity, and are each willing to sacrifice their own happiness for the cause, it seems.
 
^referring to goals not state-of-mind. You're right Topher's not especially happy in general, but in terms of his goals, he's professionally happy where he is, he doesn't seem to aspire to accomplish anything that he's not currently doing
 
Loved it. Loved it loved it LOVED IT.

- I "aww'd" out loud when it was revealed that Paul was setting November free. When Adelle said she would honor their agreement and "set the girl free"...well, I was certainly expecting Caroline to walk through the door. But when November (or, I guess, Madelyn) walked in...soo cute. Especially since Paul didn't even put the moves on her. He asked for her real name, then said he was nobody and let her go. It was a completely selfless act on his part, and it gave even more depth to his character.

- I LOVE Echo! Have I mentioned that lately? Even with 38 personalities or whatever it was, she was STILL Echo, she still did what was right. It was heartbreaking to hear her talk of Caroline as someone who abandoned her...makes her seem like even more of a child.

- I'm really glad we got the full back-story on Alpha and Claire. The eye-squeezing thing...aghh! Hard to watch, reminded me of Xander in Dirty Girls. Alpha's whole story is very interesting...the serial-killerness as a human, those tendencies that carried over when he was a Doll, the crazy talking-to-himself stuff...all awesome.

- Claire...wow. I suspected she was a Doll, but I didn't really know how tough she was. "I know who I am"...that gave me goosebumps. Like Claire, I find it fascinating that Topher made Claire hate him. It shows some self-hatred on his part. He probably feels totally responsible for what happened to Alpha, to Whiskey, to all of Alpha's victims. This is a guilt and heaviness on his character that we haven't really seen, due to his God complex and whatnot.

Please, Fox, don't let this be the end. I have too many burning questions still! Like...who was Claire, before? What will happen to Echo? What is the PURPOSE of the Dollhouse? Will Victor's face heal alright? What will become of Sierra/Victor? GAH, I must know!! 🙁
 
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I don't think Claire actually hated Topher until she found out she was a doll.
It was good, it was kinda what I had expected Dollhouse to be when it started airing. It would be a shame for it to be finished as I think there is alot more to explore.

LOVED seeing Amy Acker in a evil sexy roll, that was awesome! After last weeks discussion, I wasnt suprised that she was Whiskey. I do agree though that so many characters being a doll is a bit over the top. But Whiskey was differant in how she figured it out for herself. The others were revealed as dolls but none actually knew they were a doll. I also agree that Topher made her hate him and gave her computer skills so she might one day find out for herself. I think he felt sorry for her. Im wondering now if Victor will be 'retired' into another Dollhouse position as she was. With his original personality he wuold be an asset to their association.

Alpha was great! Gave me mega flash backs to River in Firefly. Why did he choose the name Omega for Echo? I take it thats a greek god? Can someone fill me in? I initially thought that Felicia might have been Omega and joined Sierra and November on the bounty hunt thing but that was totally wrong. I didnt think much of their absence, they wernt needed. Maybe if it was a 2 hour finale then they could have fitted them in.

Echo with all her personalities was good, she explained how her brain worked really well so I could understand how Alpha could change personality. He obviously still has some of Carl in himself and Echo still had some of Caroline in herself if that makes sense 😛. Even without the imprint they had parts of themselves leftover but didnt seem able to access them as freely as the other personalities. I think this is why Echo wasnt crazy, Caroline wasnt crazy and seemed to be quite a strong lady. Carl was already dangerous and nuts. It was sad Wendy had to die, not being able to place the actress bugged me but now I know, thanks guys!

Ballard and Boyd make a great team (sw) I liked seeing them work together. Do you think Boyd came to the Dollhouse in a simular way that Ballard found them? When I saw Ballard in the office at the end, I thought for a second that he had been wiped, he looked really absent. I saw the release of November coming as soon as he asked "and the girl?" or whatever the quote was. Its clear he cares about her, if there is a second season then maybe we will see more of her, or maybe he will just let her go so she never has to think about the Dollhouse again. Not that she seemed tramatised by the whole experiance or anything 😛

Echo getting wiped at the end was a bit of a dissapointment. But if there is a second season I suspect she will be able to keep remembering bits a pieces of her other personalities. If there isnt another season then I suppose it wrapped it up. I think it was a really good finale. I hope there is a second season cos I think it will get much better. Overall I liked the season/series but not as much as Firefly, Buffy or Angel. I think it will be one that I will love the more I see it once the DVDs come out. Joss makes good shows to be able to watch over and over again, there will always be bits and pieces that I have missed.
 
I thought Ballard was wiped in that office scene for a sec too. I'm fairly certain they had him play that absentmindedness on purpose to throw us off.
 
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