31 Days of (Christmas) Spuffy

I am with @Priceless on this cuz for me the thought of him knowing and believing that she loves him and still say that as his last words to her is way cruel than not believing it at all as he thinks of himself not worthy enough for it to be true

Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need to?
I am sticking with my theory that Buffy as a slayer is also immortal and if she is not then whats the guarantee he is going to live longer than her? They both have already died twice so death doesn't care about the immortality status, also if I love someone and he has cancer would it make me dump him or make best of the time we have left together?
 
Day 12: Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need to?

No, I don`t think so. Mostly, because Spike is not immortal. He is just hard to kill. But they are both warriors and there is still the possibility, that one of them or both will not live until Buffy is very old. Buffy`s aging could be more of a problem, but as the comics have only covered half a dozen years in the last fifteen years, they have found a way around the problem of an aging Buffy with a walking stick and hearing aids. And I have no doubt, that Spike will still love her, stay with her and care for her, if she is 90 or older. I don`t think, that Buffy is immortal, but I do believe, that slayer healing will help a lot, while she gets older. There will probably be less wrinkles and hardly any arthritis.

flow
 
Day 12: Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need to?
Spuffy freak said:
make best of the time we have left together?
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Like Connor and Heather!

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Wasn't this partly alluded to in the S10 conversation about normal (@Priceless - Riley being the point of comparison) and Buffy said she wasn't bothered about normal? That aside - if they were together for a human lifespan - he cared for Dawn when she was young; Anne when she was old; Dru when she was insane. All different forms of love but all to do with caring so there's no reason to thing he wouldn't be like Connor (this one). This aside (Aaahh! Look at them - and Freddie's singing. *Sniff*)...That aside, I can't see them discussing it unless a life changing moment was on the cards. They live in the now - or the near future. They may be in it for the long-term but I don't think there's long term planning involved (if that makes sense). As @flow says - the comics have developed practical strategies to cope with age. For me, a discussion about it isn't necessary (unless Queen are involved).
 
Day 12: Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need to?
Really Spike is just as mortal as she is, as we know how hard she is to kill. The only thing that could be a problem is aging, but I can't see Spike caring. If they actually make it to where Buffy is old and crazy, Spike will be by her bedside, feeding her soup and telling her stories.
 
Fool for Buffy said:
Day 12: Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need .
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This isn't important to me and I don't care if it's addressed or not. I agree with the viewpoint that immortality is not the issue, aging and the ability to have children might be.
 
I agree with you all that Spike isn't actually immortal and the issue is more about ageing. I think your perspective on things changes as you age and in part that is because of the sense of a limitation on your time and a belief in progressive maturing that comes with experience. But being connected to humans and living alongside them will (and has) given Spike a degree of that shifting outlook that comes with a greater sense of time. He's certainly a character who is no stranger to development and change! So yes, assuming they both live for a good while and stay together and that Buffy visibly ages, that could cause a shift in their dynamic but it's very hard to perceive how/why.

It isn't something I have a particular thought on, I was just trying to think of a question. 🙂
 
Day 12: Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need to?

This was already covered once in Season 3 by the Mayor, who mentioned how he had to watch his wife deteriorate while he stayed young. Buffy says that sometimes she thinks ahead but I doubt this is one of those times or a subject she will think about. She has seen Spike's devotion to Drusilla and heard about his mother, so I doubt there would be a time when Spike says, "Sorry Buffy, you just ain't got it anymore." But no one knows about how a slayer ages - not many have made it to Buffy's age and none have made it to an age where deterioration is normal.
 
Day 13: What effect did the Scoobies have on Buffy and Spike's relationship?
A negative one. I am only including Xander and Giles here, Willow is a very understanding and kind person she was herself, not at a good place in s6 so she could not be any help to Buffy, if she was not like this then I think she won't be a bitch about it. In "intervention" when they thought Buffybot is Buffy, Willow was very sweet to her about her relationship with Spike. Xander just needed a good brush off, which I am glad he got from Buffy when Anya went all "demony". Giles was the most dangerous of them, he tried to kill ensouled Spike when he realized Buffy has feelings for him I have no doubt he would have killed soulless Spike if he was there in s6 and got to know about their relationship so in that way it makes sense why Buffy wanted to keep it a secret and was so scared of this secret coming out. Even in comics they only got to dating when everyone was on board with the Spuffy ship
 
Day 13: What affect did the Scoobies have on Buffy and Spike's relationship?

I agree with you @Spuffy freak. I always wondered why Buffy set so much store by what her friends thought. She was always so strong, and such a great leader, but when it came to her personal life, Buffy seemed to value her friends opinion above her own.
 
Priceless said:
Day 13: What affect did the Scoobies have on Buffy and Spike's relationship?

I agree with you @Spuffy freak. I always wondered why Buffy set so much store by what her friends thought. She was always so strong, and such a great leader, but when it came to her personal life, Buffy seemed to value her friends opinion above her own.
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Not only with Spike, with Riley also. Doesn't she runs to stop Riley only after Xander kind of forces her to and made Riley getting suckjobs her fault? She let her friends get too involved in her love life and for such a strong character like her that was disasppointing
 
Day 13: What affect did the Scoobies have on Buffy and Spike's relationship?

Except for Giles I don`t remember any of the scoobies being hostile towards Buffy Spike`srelationship.

If you remember, that Spike kidnapped Willow and Xander in season3 and tried to bite Willow in season4, they were actually quite nice to him. Willow saved him from committing suicide, Xander lend him clothes, let him live at his house and they both worked with him in season 5 and 6, although they did not tell him about the resurrection. In season7 Willow bought blood for him and Xander let him share his flat again. Both accepted Buffys support of Spike even after it became clear, that he had killed again. And both helped him to get rid of the trigger.
There was no reason for Buffy, not to tell the Scoobies about her affair with Spike in season6. Dawn would have been enthusiastic, Anya would have been accepting, Tara would have been friendly and understanding and Willow and Xander would not have objected. The only Scooby, who was firmly contra Spike, was Giles and he was in England in season6 and would have not been asked. It is interesting, to imagine, how things would have turned out, if Buffy would have done, what Spike advised her to do all all the time: to tell her friends about her and Spike.

The effect would have been a positive one. Unfortunately Buffy dreaded something different, for reasons only she knows. And that is why the effect was in the end a negative one. But that wasn`t the scoobies fault.

flow
 
@flow i don't agree about Xander. He was never happy about sharing his space with Spike. In s4 he was held captive and in s7 Buffy requested him to do so. Xander referred to Spike as "that" many times. There were some moments where Xander was a little bit kind to Spike but that were very few
 
I don't think the scoobies had much effect to be honest. The issues that Buffy had with being with Spike soulless were not truly about her friends but predominantly her own issues and feelings about the dangers and limitations of him being soulless. Yes I do think she worried about how they would react but I think that it was in great part her projecting her own thoughts and perceptions about it onto them, expecting them to respond to it in the way she was internally against it herself.

As @flow says, the S5 Buffybot incident showed that they wouldn't completely turn on her and considering the things Spike had done against them directly and personally in the past, they were showing some degree of acceptance of him in S6 even if they still had reservations and issues. I don't think them knowing would have had any great affect or changed the long term result for Spike/Buffy because they weren't going to be able to have a healthy relationship without him gaining his soul. Eventually in some way he would have let himself down and the limitation of him not having his own moral boundaries and conscience that operated on a human level would have come between them. That is totally separate to the scoobies. When Giles tried to conspire to have Spike killed despite him being souled and Buffy wanting to keep him in the fight etc in S7, that was a very direct attack against them and still, it didn't have a meaningful effect either.

So whilst I do think Buffy allowed her feelings about their possible responses and disappointment to affect her, I don't think they affected her feelings because it was really about how she was feeling regardless of her friends. When he was souled and she wanted him around she was a lot more open about it and far more blatant about caring for him. Again, I think her behaviour reflected her own feelings, her own reduced levels of worry and uncertainty, rather than anything directly attributable to the scoobs.
 
@Spuffy freak :In season4 Xander only tied Spike to the chair for the night. Understandable, if you think about his kidnapping trauma. Spike was free to walk around for the rest of the time. And it is true, that Buffy asked Xander to let Spike cohabitat in season7, but she did not request it. She was not Xanders boss. He could have said no. It is true, that he wasn`t overjoyed. But he still did it.

flow
 
In S10 when she finally starts an open relationship with him he has returned and finally looked to integrate into the group fully, to be a part of their human lives. So I think it is as much his changing attitude and approach and the length of time they have all known each other and fought together that plays the biggest part in the change that happens there. His choice to integrate more fully probably had more direct effect to them finally having an open relationship than the scoobies acceptance of him. Although clearly his choice opened the potential for a shift in the dynamics he had with them all and certainly the way they all interact as a functioning group can't have harmed how readily Buffy felt certain about giving it a go. It all intermingles by that point I think.
 
When Xander found out that Buffy and Spike had been having sex, he virtually disowned Buffy. When Tara told Willow about them, she said Buffy hadn't told Willow because of the look she had on her face. Neither of them could even imagine Buffy and Spike together, it was so far away from the image they had of her. I think that was Buffy's issue, she didn't want to tarnish the image of the Slayer her friends had of her, but I also don't think they would easily accept the relationship.

Even in S7 when Spike had a soul, Buffy several times had to reiterate to the Scoobies that she and Spike were no longer a couple, were not having sex, and she was not 'still' in love with him.
 
Well, Xander had a lot to process, because he just found out, that Spike had sex with Anya as well. by watching it on tv.

But both were more shocked about Buffy not telling them:

WILLOW: (shocked) Does everybody else know? Am I the only one she didn't-
TARA: God, no. She, she didn't even mean to tell me, it just came out.
WILLOW: (still shocked) How could she hide something like this from me?
TARA: I think she was afraid of the look you'd get on your face. (Willow staring at her) Kinda like the one you're wearing now.
WILLOW: Oh, no, I'm not ... I'm just trying to understand.
TARA: So is she.
WILLOW: Wow, she probably really needs someone to talk to.
TARA: Probably.

XANDER: How did we get here?
BUFFY: Scenic route. Long drive.
XANDER: The past few weeks...
BUFFY: I know.
XANDER: I thought I hit bottom, but ... it hurt. That you didn't trust me enough to tell me about Spike. (pauses, softly) It hurt.
BUFFY: I'm sorry. I should have told you.
XANDER: (small smile) Maybe you would have, if I hadn't given you so many reasons to think I'd be an ass about it.
BUFFY: Guess we've all done a lot of things lately we're not proud of.
XANDER: (slightly larger smile) I think I've got you beat.
BUFFY: Wanna compare?
XANDER: Not so much.

flow
 
Day 8 (really Day 9): Is the scene, where Spike is handcuffed a flashback to something that has really happened or a dream about something, Buffy desired, but what never happened ?
I think both used the handcuff, but the dream is not necessary a memory, like it has been mentioned I think is about Buffy wanting to have the control

Day 9 (Really Day 10): How would Buffy and Spike celebrate Christmas?
I imagine something similar to Pangs with Buffy planning everything and then a demon or something appearing, and in the end both having a nice and private moment

Day 11 (yes - Day 11!) BUFFY (softly, looks into his eyes) I love you. SPIKE No, you don't. But thanks for saying it. (another earthquake; Buffy lets go of his hand) Now go! (Buffy runs up the stairs) I wanna see how it ends why?
I have always thought that Spike didn´t believe her, I do believe Buffy was in love with him but she wasn´t ready to have a relationship, one of the things that I like on S10 is that Buffy has clear what she wants and while S7 was about she believing in him, S10 is about she believing in their relationship, It took time but it was worth it

Day 12: Do you expect Buffy and Spike to openly address his immortality/her mortality and do you think they need to?
No really, I think Buffy and Spike are living the here and now, which is good cause none of them has a guaranteed life, and if they decide to continue I truly believe that Spike will find her attractive even she´s 40

Day 13: What affect did the Scoobies have on Buffy and Spike's relationship?
With no soul I don´t think they would have accepted it (“But I never forgot what he really is” Xander from SR), maybe Dawn would not have seen it as something bad, and Tara knew Buffy was in a bad place and was supporting her no the relationship, i think they would have seen the relationship as something bad cause without the soul i don´t think they can really trust in him Once he got the soul and Buffy starts to be more open about her feelings I think that first they start to support her and later in the comics they accept him in the group
 
Day 14: If Angelus had never gotten cursed with the soul and there was no Angel in Buffy's life, how would it change things for Spuffy? Scoobies relationship with chipped Spike and would Spike even went to get a soul if they would have no idea what he is missing and why it is so important?
 
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