31 Days of (Christmas) Spuffy

I've got a question . . .

Day 17: Why did Spike and Joyce get on so well and do you think she'd be supportive of Spuffy in S6 or 7?

I think Spike liked her because she had the mother vibe that he never got.
I loved that they got along so well and honestly yes I think she'd be a Spuffy. Unlike Angel and Joyce who didn't have a very good relationship, she already had a good relationship with Spike and I think she trusted Buffy a lot more now & I think she would've loved them together especially S7 Spuffy.
 
Spike likes strong women and what was his first meeting with Joyce? She was about to take his head off with a fire axe. He genuinely did like her after that even though his next conversation with her was awkward (Buffy is the drummer in his band and she is "hell on the old skins"). I think she would have reservations about Spike being her daughter's true pairing but she would know enough by then not to try to stop it.
 
I agree Spike was responsive to being shown kindness and he projected his own feelings about his mum on Joyce. Her protectiveness of Buffy in School Hard probably appealed to him because it was motherly and also because it was gutsy too.

I also think her responses in S2 to Buffy's relationship with Angel and then to Spike's feelings for Buffy in Crush showed that she would be thoughtful about the S6 relationship, rather than aggressive/angry, but that she would not have approved and would have been trying to ensure Buffy extricated herself as painlessly as possible. She would probably have actively encouraged increasing distance generally. I think a lot of how she would respond to him in S7 would have been led by whether she knew about the AR and what time and opportunity she had to see the changes in him and how much she listened to Buffy on understanding the meaningful distinction that the soul gives. The personal attack on Buffy would really trigger her protectiveness I'm sure, but I don't think it would mean she was immovable on giving him some opportunity to prove himself if that was what Buffy was supporting. She did seem to understand with Angel that he wasn't exactly the same person. But she still didn't want him around Buffy as a romantic interest and I don't think she'd feel much different about Spike. I could see her coming to accept and appreciate that his continued presence would increase Buffy's chances of survival in her slaying duties though. So I do think she would have grown used to their working relationship and then eventually been able to accept the renewed romantic relationship they eventually work towards in the comic seasons.
 
I agree Spike was responsive to being shown kindness and he projected his own feelings about his mum on Joyce. Her protectiveness of Buffy in School Hard probably appealed to him because it was motherly and also because it was gutsy too.

I also think her responses in S2 to Buffy's relationship with Angel and then to Spike's feelings for Buffy in Crush showed that she would be thoughtful about the S6 relationship, rather than aggressive/angry, but that she would not have approved and would have been trying to ensure Buffy extricated herself as painlessly as possible. She would probably have actively encouraged increasing distance generally. I think a lot of how she would respond to him in S7 would have been led by whether she knew about the AR and what time and opportunity she had to see the changes in him and how much she listened to Buffy on understanding the meaningful distinction that the soul gives. The personal attack on Buffy would really trigger her protectiveness I'm sure, but I don't think it would mean she was immovable on giving him some opportunity to prove himself if that was what Buffy was supporting. She did seem to understand with Angel that he wasn't exactly the same person. But she still didn't want him around Buffy as a romantic interest and I don't think she'd feel much different about Spike. I could see her coming to accept and appreciate that his continued presence would increase Buffy's chances of survival in her slaying duties though. So I do think she would have grown used to their working relationship and then eventually been able to accept the renewed romantic relationship they eventually work towards in the comic seasons.

I agree. I think he loved that Joyce was gutsy just like her daughter. She was strong but still fun & kind.
I think she'd ship Spuffy more then she ever did Bangel.
 
@Stoney There is a mother sense that I believe in like my mom likes every other guy who is a least bit nice to her. But when my mom met my bf who had the nicest guy look and my mom didnt even know that he is my bf and he did try to be very nice to her but she still didnt like him when I was expecting her to love him so thats when I realized she has a mother sixth sense and the guy didnt really turn out to be that nice after all my mom was the only one who picked it up before any of us. So what I wanna say is her reaction to Angel cant be compared to Spike because in s2 she didnt even know he is a vampire but he was too old for her(not counting vampire age) Buffy was underage at that time. And Angel even as human was too old for her normal daughter and he was hurting her so him getting his soul back didnt make much difference to Joyce. She was never connected to Angel but she was almost friends with Spike and ensouled Spike is good for Buffy, won't hurt her especially if this is the reason why he almost gave up his life to get the soul. Angel in any form soulless or ensouled would end up hurting Buffy anyways so her mother sixth sense tends to go off on Angel.
 
Sorry I meant her reaction to him in S3 when she was asking Angel to leave because of her wishes for Buffy to be with a 'normal' guy, go to college etc. But I do think with time she would have seen the benefits of him fighting by Buffy's side. I don't know how much we can read into how she responded to Angel initially compared to Spike. Obviously Joyce's interactions with them were written to be from very different stances because of the wider context of their stories and dynamics with Buffy and the group. But I can certainly see the argument that her personal interactions with Spike that were outside of any 'relationship' he had with Buffy romantically could have made it easier for her to accept him if she was to come around to the positives the relationship could bring.
 
But I can certainly see the argument that her personal interactions with Spike that were outside of any 'relationship' he had with Buffy romantically could have made it easier for her to accept him if she was to come around to the positives the relationship could bring.
Yes and we are talking about if Joyce had not died. That means after Buffy's death at the tower Spike would have gotten as close to Joyce as he was to Dawn. He would have spent that much time with Joyce and she would have seen the pain he was in and how loyal he was. Without the soul still can't see her accepting Spike as a son in law but I can see her loving him as a son in that reality where Buffy had died and he was always there to fill her place and protect Dawn and Joyce and I can also see her asking Buffy to be kind to him. So you know Angel was never there for Buffy or with Buffy to have those chances to impress Joyce
 
Day 17: Why did Spike and Joyce get on so well and do you think she'd be supportive of Spuffy in S6 or 7?

Mmm...do you mean is she cheering them on from her vantage point in heaven? I find questions like this so difficult to answer - primarily because S6 wouldn't have panned out as it did if Joyce had been alive. Presuming it did, who put Joyce in the picture about Spike and Buffy - and how much detail did he/she go into? Aargh...I'm hoping it wasn't Tara - I'm also hoping she didn't see the recording in the shop. There's such a thing as "too much information". If it was Xander - Spike's dead. 😱 I can't compare Angel's experience with Joyce because my mind appears to have blocked everything pre S4. 🙁 I think @Spuffy freak is right when she says he would have been there for the Summers women after Buffy's death and this would have endeared him to Joyce* but I'm equally sure she'd have needed the soul before she offered support in 7. Would she have been persuaded by Giles or would she have had a "sixth sense" as Spuffy freak suggests? It's an interesting turn of phrase because it's something similar to the mind-set her daughter develops in S7. Part of what intrigues me about S7 is the implicit use of art references (particularly important, I think, in the point of anamprphosis and the idea of looking at something from a different perspective). I also think the art-works in the house are telling us more than we realise (@Priceless 's "door pictures" being the obvious example) and Joyce was probably responsible for them. I'm fairly sure they're intimating something "different" about Joyce - maybe something that's the antithesis of the First Evil Joyce or the Joyce we're familiar with?

*The implication being he cares for women throughout their life span.

As for why they got on so well, I don't think it's coincidence that there's a physical similarity between Buffy/Joyce and Anne - I'm also guessing there are personality traits shared between the three. We don't know enough about Anne to assess her character but I'm presuming it was strong.

That aside - I'm really not in the mood for discussing mothers, having just taken my own Christmas food shopping (7 carrier bags of food - all for Christmas evening - for 4 people!). Sample conversation:

Her: I don't think I've got room in the fridge for the turkey.
Me: That's because you've filled it with eight different sorts of bloody cheese.
Her: I don't know when I'll have time to get the salad.
Me: Just get it now and put it straight in the bin. Saves finding room for it in the bloody fridge and it's the fate of all salad bought for Christmas.

Don't get me started on my mother, the dangers of slippery pavements or how much sticky tape/paper is required for present wrapping!
 
Stoney
Stoney
Eight sorts of cheese sounds pretty damn fine to me, I'd ditch the turkey and keep the cheese. ;)
Spuffy freak
Spuffy freak
During all the rambling, you again very cleverly managed to not answer the actual question :P
Abridged version of last post for @Spuffy freak

Idk. Why? He likes mums and the Summers females. Season 6 - No - too hot. Season 7 - yes with soul (or might look at it differently and decide soul is unnecessary).

Very abridged version for @Spuffy freak

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🙂

5 fantasy football lessons we learned from Liverpool 4 Leicester 1
 
Anyone got a Day 18 question or an opinion they'd like us to discuss?
 
TriBel
TriBel
Is that the banner you had to beat Gimp into submission for? If so - you won :-) It's lovely!
Day 18: What if Spike and Faith's S7 arcs were switched? (this has been mentioned recently, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone thought)

Edit: By arc, I obviously mean appearances, lol.
 
Day 18: What if Spike and Faith's S7 arcs were switched? (this has been mentioned recently, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone thought)

Edit: By arc, I obviously mean appearances, lol.

So to be clear that would mean
Faith is in every S7 episode
Spike is in the last 5 only?
 
Spike was such an important part of Season 7. He did not deserve to be delegated to the last 5 episodes. Spuffy shared a bond like no other in S7 and I think it would've hindered the ship & lost many amazing moments if Spuffy was around for only 5 episodes & the Touched speech & the Chosen ily may not have meant as much without more time. Also I'm a big Faith fan but she worked better on Angel imo then on Buffy.
 
Puppet
Puppet
Yes
Day 18: What if Spike and Faith's S7 arcs were switched? (this has been mentioned recently, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone thought)

Edit: By arc, I obviously mean appearances, lol.
So to be clear that would mean
Faith is in every S7 episode
Spike is in the last 5 only?

I'd hate it! I am not a massive fan of Faith, and I adore Spike. I'm in the gang that thinks there isn't enough Spike in S7 lol. Once I've got over my shock at even being asked such a nightmarish question, I'll get back to you 😀
 
I'd hate it! I am not a massive fan of Faith, and I adore Spike. I'm in the gang that thinks there isn't enough Spike in S7 lol. Once I've got over my shock at even being asked such a nightmarish question, I'll get back to you 😀

Right! I need more and more and more Spike in S7!
I could see Faith being a regular on ATS! But on BTVS I couldn't see it. 🙂
 
Day 18: What if Spike and Faith's S7 arcs were switched? (this has been mentioned recently, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone thought)

Edit: By arc, I obviously mean appearances, lol.

Sigh...yet another question I don't have the imagination to answer. I think I'm the inverse of certain Bangles: my unconscious has repressed knowledge of 1-3. and I only recognise 4 - 11 as canon. In some ways it could work. She's similar to Spike inasmuch as both are liminal and they mirror each other in many ways.. However, Buffy COULD be Faith - she could never be Spike. With Faith playing Spike's role, the shadow takes on an uncanniness that isn't there on the original 7. In addition, Spike's "issues" are with his mother whereas Faith's are with her father. That disrupts the text's reconfiguration of the psychosocial. There is a fundamental difference - while neither have phallic power he does have a penis and I think, in order for the text to have the subtext it does, it's a necessary difference. Right - I've officially bored myself🙁 and so I'll leave the last word to Dean.

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Abigail Breslin Dating All Time Low Member Jack Barakat
 
Day 18: What if Spike and Faith's S7 arcs were switched?

I don`t even know how to answer that. I mean, I love Faith, I really do. But what would be the point, having her in every episode and Spike only in the last five ? What would she do all the time ? Would she be tortured by the First Evil ?

I am sorry, I don`t see it. I would have actually watched a spin off with Faith. I`d love to see her on AtS 5. I never understood, why she did not make an appearance there. But to have her as a kind of a second Buffy on BtVS 7 ? No. Not really.

flow
 
Day 18: What if Spike and Faith's S7 arcs were switched?

I don`t even know how to answer that. I mean, I love Faith, I really do. But what would be the point, having her in every episode and Spike only in the last five ? What would she do all the time ? Would she be tortured by the First Evil ?

I am sorry, I don`t see it. I would have actually watched a spin off with Faith. I`d love to see her on AtS 5. I never understood, why she did not make an appearance there. But to have her as a kind of a second Buffy on BtVS 7 ? No. Not really.

flow

She could've been a regular on Angel season 4 or 5 easily!
But not Buffy! Especially not in place of Spike!
 
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